Our offensive line play

[wcu]

Our oline play is far from perfect, but it’s sooo much better than last year. It’s well documented on these boards that most think Paul Alexander was a major part of the problem. I’ve certainly wondered how he would fair in Dallas with their all world oline talent. Here are excerpts from two recent articles.

“Late in Sunday's game, the Fox broadcasters talked about Seahawks offensive line coach Mike Solari. Cowboys fans might be interested to know that Solari was Garrett's top candidate to replace Frank Pollack, fired after last season. Solari was apparently on campus, but the Cowboys didn't lock him down. He was quickly hired by the Seahawks and the Cowboys scrambled to hire longtime Bengals offensive line coach Paul Alexander. Everything was fine until we started seeing this O-line getting overwhelmed in losses to the Panthers and Seahawks. It's one thing when a rookie left guard is getting blown off the ball, but why is All-Pro Zack Martin getting shoved back to his quarterback? There are whispers that I'm hearing that Alexander has taught a completely different blocking technique than what players such as Frederick, Tyron Smith and Martin learned under Bill Callahan. It seems crazy you would make fundamental changes to the best aspect of this Cowboys offense. Former Cowboys coach and scout Glenn "Stretch" Smith makes some good points on this developing story in this week's Doomsday Podcast. This appears to be an unforced error by this organization that makes absolutely no sense.”

“Dak’s problems are real, but so are the problems of the offensive line. Tyron Smith isn’t the Tyron Smith of two years ago. La’el Collins is still hit and miss. Connor Williams is learning, but it’s on the hon and sometimes that can be painful. As a whole, this offensive line is nothing like it was a few years ago. It’s a serious issue, and we might not be able to coach our way out of it. It may take some personnel changes down the line.”

There’s also no shortage of forum posts lamenting the fact that Alexander was hired. It seems we’ve been somewhat vindicated. I just wonder what the last few years could have been like with more competent oline play.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

#Bengals' Alex Redmond has allowed the second-most pressures (21) among guards, earned a 59.9 run-block grade and now shares the NFL lead in penalties (five) through Week 5.

*whispers*

christian westerman has played zero snaps this season

— Austin Gayle (@PFF_AustinGayle) October 8, 2018

Just last week Glenn allowed 6 pressures against the Falcons (with Redmond contributing 4 and Hart 3).

To give you an idea of context, Geno Atkins leads all defensive players in pressures this year with 31. So I will contend that this offensive line isn't actually that much better, it's just that the OC has schemed around a crappy OL better.

[kevin]

I thought the O Line was just awful against Miami. Luckily Dalton scrambled and even threw a touchdown with tacklers all over him. Luckily our Defense made big 4th quarter plays. Still, I thought the O Line STUNK against Miami. It better shape up. Steelers will be harder to block than Miami. Last year Bengals couldn't block Steelers at all, yet stupid fans wondered why Dalton had off games. Dalton worked miracles to beat Miami with no blocking, but this O Line better shape up if they want play-offs. I love 4-1, but there is a long hard schedule between now and play-offs. They can't get there without blocking. In the next 2 games, if they can't block, they will fall to 4-3. With blocking they can keep winning.

[Joelist]

So far we've had two games where they blocked decently and three where they got punked. And the punking seems to coincide with Price being out. Glenn had one bad game with Atlanta but looked somewhat better against Miami. I still think he is being hampered by the foot and maybe it's time to try a switch of him and Boling until he is fully healed. Redmond to me needs to sit and Westerman put in.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

Lazor has done a good job at working around the weak line. Time will tell if it holds up, improves a bit or collapses.

[grampahol]

Well gee.. Are we gonna start demanding a trade with Dallas to get Alexander back in favor of Pollack? 

I didn't think so..

[Daddy-O]

(10-09-2018, 02:25 AM)kevin Wrote: I thought the O Line was just awful against Miami.  Luckily Dalton scrambled and even threw a touchdown with tacklers all over him.  Luckily our Defense made big 4th quarter plays.  Still, I thought the O Line STUNK against Miami.  It better shape up.  Steelers will be harder to block than Miami.  Last year Bengals couldn't block Steelers at all, yet stupid fans wondered why Dalton had off games.   Dalton worked miracles to beat Miami with no blocking, but this O Line better shape up if they want play-offs.  I love 4-1, but there is a long hard schedule between now and play-offs.  They can't get there without blocking. In the next 2 games, if they can't block, they will fall to 4-3.  With blocking they can keep winning.

This.  

Biggest disappointment to me so far has been Cordy Glenn.  He is getting beat very consistently by speed rushers around the end, forcing Dalton to step into the pocket too quick during his reads.  Luckily the interior (center) position has been better, albeit not great, so he's not constantly stepping right back into something.

There is no doubt Dalton is making the O-line look much better than it is.  I'm hoping they get better as the year progresses.  If they don't our record will start deteriorating.  This week will be another test cause Pitt will bring it.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-09-2018, 01:28 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

#Bengals' Alex Redmond has allowed the second-most pressures (21) among guards, earned a 59.9 run-block grade and now shares the NFL lead in penalties (five) through Week 5.

*whispers*

christian westerman has played zero snaps this season

— Austin Gayle (@PFF_AustinGayle) October 8, 2018

Just last week Glenn allowed 6 pressures against the Falcons (with Redmond contributing 4 and Hart 3).

To give you an idea of context, Geno Atkins leads all defensive players in pressures this year with 31. So I will contend that this offensive line isn't actually that much better, it's just that the OC has schemed around a crappy OL better.

I guess I would need to know the exact definitions and differences in sacks, hurries, hits, and pressures.  If Dalton is being pressured a lot from the right side, I would offer that it is at least an outside pressure (scheme) and allows him to step up in the pocket.  The other thing the team is doing better (FINALLY!) as a whole is the so-called scramble drill.  All the WRs are moving (or most of them) when Dalton breaks the pocket.  Boyd has scored on one of them.  We NEVER saw that in the past.  It is like Dalton doing a hard count against the Colts (saw it once against Miami and got a free play as well, but it wasn't called.  Dalton looked incredulous).  

These little "everyone else has been doing it for years, why didn't we" improvements have made a huge impact.  


Probably the single greatest improvement has been the play of Price and Hopkins at Center over Bodine.  Dalton can step in to throws and has more of a pocket.  The improvement on his blind side is also significant, but the middle is where I am seeing the biggest difference. 

And even though Redmond may be giving up some pressures, he is much better than what we had last year in the rushing game.  

[TheUberHuber]

(10-09-2018, 01:28 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

#Bengals' Alex Redmond has allowed the second-most pressures (21) among guards, earned a 59.9 run-block grade and now shares the NFL lead in penalties (five) through Week 5.

*whispers*

christian westerman has played zero snaps this season

— Austin Gayle (@PFF_AustinGayle) October 8, 2018

Just last week Glenn allowed 6 pressures against the Falcons (with Redmond contributing 4 and Hart 3).

To give you an idea of context, Geno Atkins leads all defensive players in pressures this year with 31. So I will contend that this offensive line isn't actually that much better, it's just that the OC has schemed around a crappy OL better.

What does that have to do with alexander going to dallas and now their oline sucks?

We dont have the personnel that dallas does so of course they are not going to be a top tier unit. But if you dont think they are performing better than the last 2 years you are insane.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-09-2018, 10:25 AM)TheUberHuber Wrote: What does that have to do with alexander going to dallas and now their oline sucks?

We dont have the personnel that dallas does so of course they are not going to be a top tier unit. But if you dont think they are performing better than the last 2 years you are insane.

Good point, let's not forget that we're still settling "new" guys in, at 4 out of 5 spots on our OL.  Of course, things are going to take time.  Along with the frustrating play of the first half, I also saw signs of encouragement in the second half.  There were a couple of running plays where the trap was executed to perfection, it was like watching the parting of the Red Sea.

This tells me that not only are Pollack/Lazor making adjustments, but the players are responding to the direction with better execution.

[GreenCornBengal]

(10-09-2018, 10:31 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Good point, let's not forget that we're still settling "new" guys in, at 4 out of 5 spots on our OL.  Of course, things are going to take time.  Along with the frustrating play of the first half, I also saw signs of encouragement in the second half.  There were a couple of running plays where the trap was executed to perfection, it was like watching the parting of the Red Sea.

This tells me that not only are Pollack/Lazor making adjustments, but the players are responding to the direction with better execution.

Also got a good block (maybe more) from Schreck. He may be the TE we need to spring the run game.

[muskiesfan]

I have no desire to ever have Alexander the Great back. Finally moving on from that asshole was much needed.

The OLine is still a disappointment. Yes they are better than the last 2 seasons. Yes they are doing a better job opening running lanes. They're still not good though. They need to gel or something fast. If it takes playing Westerman or making some switches, lets get it done. When Price comes back, that will help. However, Redmond, Hart, and Glenn need to step up or we need to figure something else out.

[BengalsBong]

It will be hard to jel by playing musical chairs the only switch we need right now is getting Price back at center. If Cordy is hurt and he continues to struggle you might make a move there until his injury is better. But you don't swap people out till at least the rest of the O-line has jelled and you can see a weak link.

[fredtoast]

After the string of Bodine-Ogbuehi-Fischer Alexander had to go, but he was not as bad as most people here like to claim. Pollack is a good O-line coach, but he is not the messiah some people have labeled him.

Our O-line is better partly because of the addition of Glenn and Price (and maybe even Hart), and the Cowboys O-line struggled last year even with all of that talent.

Pollack is our coach and I support him 100%, but it is not like he has shown up and worked magic.

[*Go Cards*]

We need to get Price back ASAP.

[Circleville Guy]

There wasn’t anyone on here that thought that Alexander was good or better than Pollack. Many of you seemed to pronounce Pollack as being savior like, thinking that he would automatically turn the 2 early round bust into good players by scheming differently. It doesn’t work that way, the talent is slightly better than last year and the line is slightly better than last year. PA had some good lines years ago and was highly regarded, it was back when he had good players. PA isn’t doing well there. “Tyron Smith isn’t the player he was 2 years ago”. Who was his coach last year? I think that PA has had the game pass him by and I prefer Pollack. Give him good players and the line should be fine, it was just silly reading over and over and over again how Pollack was going to magically make these guys into something they aren’t.

[Joelist]

(10-09-2018, 12:13 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: It will be hard to jel by playing musical chairs the only switch we need right now is getting Price back at center. If Cordy is hurt and he continues to struggle you might make a move there until his injury is better. But you don't swap people out till at least the rest of the O-line has jelled and you can see a weak link.

This is why I only really proposed a temporary Glenn-Boling swap until Glenn is 100%. The biggest need is Price back at Center. Hopkins has been an ok fill in but with Price we were actually able to run inside and with Hopkins that has not worked as well. 

[Joelist]

And the Cowboys OL had some issues last year but they were new player related more than anything else. This year it has been a disaster and having seen two of their games I immediately recognized the Piano Man method of having road graders give ground and try to play lateral zones. Prescott has only a tiny pocket and Elliott nowhere in the backfield to cut to properly.

[Whodey614]

If you told me last year that Bengals would only give up 9 sacks through the first 5 games of the 2018 season, I think anyone would take that easily. The Bengals gave up 8 sacks alone in the first 2 games last season. Yes, the OL is still allowing pressure but Dalton has been statistically one of the best QBs when under pressure thus far. Credit to Lazor for scheming ways to get receivers open quickly and Alex Van Pelt for adding new tweaks to Dalton's game. He's been extending plays and not getting happy feet not as much when protection doesn't hold.

Glenn is up and down but still makes a difference on that left side. Boling is still rock solid as ever. Need Price back but Hopkins has held it down which is all you could ask for from a backup. It was fun to hype Redmond during the offseason but he was still undrafted and thinking that he could be a long-term option was a long shot. Won't mention Westerman because he clearly won't get a shot. Hart is probably still the weakest link but I think Pollack is getting the most of him and it's clear we don't have any other options.

We knew the fixing the o-line would be a 2-year process at the very least. If it wasn't any better we would not be 4-1 right now. It is and you could tell. You can't deny that Pollack has had a significant impact regardless of the fact that he might have been overhyped. Okay, he couldn't turn Cedric Ogbuehi or Jake Fisher into solid starters in under a year. Most coaches won't.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

I was watching espn countdown and Rex said next to head coach. the offensive line coach is the most important coach on the team. and Rex is a defensive guy so there's that