Out of All the Irresponsible Actions...

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-09-2020, 12:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Maybe...aren't we sort of entering into new territory here?  There is no general rule for how a nation is supposed to react when the president is throwing a tantrum and stomping his feet about how unfair it is that he was cheated, is there?

Personally, I've ignored plenty of people who rant and rave about how our elections are completely rigged and our government is a corrupt farce, I mean haven't we all?  It's just not something you usually hear from the president.

Go to any NFL message board while their team is losing and you'll hear cries that the NFL is rigged and the refs are calling the game against them, but if Roger Goddell goes on TV and announces the NFL is rigged you have a whole new situation even though the message is the same.

Dude, we've been in new territory for the past four years.

[Belsnickel]

(11-09-2020, 12:50 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes, if what they said or did was something bad. Just because you disagreed with, disliked, and/or outright hated Trump doesn't mean that those who supported him deserve public humiliation. 

No one really deserves public humiliation, but that is something that is common in our society and I find it difficult being something that I could chastise either side, over.

[*Nately120*]

(11-09-2020, 01:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dude, we've been in new territory for the past four years.

Right, and it keeps getting new.  The day Trump was elected we were wondering what would happen if he lost in 2020, and here we are and he's going down the script the haters predicted he would adhere to.  It's bizarre Trump and his handlers heard Commie Sanders outline exactly what Trump was going to do in regards to the 2020 election and they didn't even bother to change the trajectory.

Maybe we just need to ask ol' Bernie what Trump will do next...the guy is like a magic 8 ball.

[Dill]

(11-09-2020, 12:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: AOC is the most prominent name though there are others. One even started the "Trump Accountability Project". The goal is to hold them "responsible" for supporting/enabling Trump. So I guess it could be to investigate and/or "lock em up".

You do agree, though, that this is reprehensible and should NOT be something people engage in. Right? Just like it was wrong for Trump to even suggest locking up his political opposition, it's also wrong for AOC and Democrats, right?

I read one tweet from AOC which asked that we remember who stood with Trump when the day comes that Trumpism is a political liability. Don't let them deny that they chose to support, refused to help control him. I don't see that as much different than the usual--"remember how they voted on gun control" or taxes increases or whatever. If AOC goes further than that then, yes, that will be reprehensible.

There may be some legitimate interest in investigating abuse of power/office of some Trump cabinet members. But I don't see anything yet comparable to Trump ordering the DOJ to go after Biden during an election. 

If the Dems do something like that it will be wrong.  

But I'll be very surprised if "the Dems" do something like that, led and supported by Biden and Harris, the party leaders, who seem to desire the return of stability, normalcy, civility and good government. 

Pretty sure they will be striving to move forward, talking policy and not holding rallies with endless rambling about their poll numbers and false anecdote after false anecdote about what crooks the other side was. There is no Biden equivalent of "The Snake" poem to be told and retold. If some Dems want to chant "lock them up," they won't go along. That's the kind of leadership we have now.

[*Nately120*]

(11-09-2020, 01:05 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No one really deserves public humiliation, but that is something that is common in our society and I find it difficult being something that I could chastise either side, over.

I agree....BUT if the secret service is escorting Trump out of the white house and his pants fall down I'm going to die happy.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-09-2020, 01:10 PM)Dill Wrote: I read one tweet from AOC which asked that we remember who stood with Trump when the day comes that Trumpism is a political liability. Don't let them deny that they chose to support, refused to help control him. I don't see that as much different than the usual--"remember how they voted on gun control" or taxes increases or whatever. If AOC goes further than that then, yes, that will be reprehensible.

There may be some legitimate interest in investigating abuse of power/office of some Trump cabinet members. But I don't see anything yet comparable to Trump ordering the DOJ to go after Biden during an election. 

If the Dems do something like that it will be wrong.  

But I'll be very surprised if "the Dems" do something like that, led and supported by Biden and Harris, the party leaders, who seem to desire the return of stability, normalcy, civility and good government. 

Pretty sure they will be striving to move forward, talking policy and not holding rallies with endless rambling about their poll numbers and false anecdote after false anecdote about what crooks the other side was. There is no Biden equivalent of "The Snake" poem to be told and retold. If some Dems want to chant "lock them up," they won't go along. That's the kind of leadership we have now.

Well, I hope you're right, but I wouldn't give the Dems too much credit considering that before Trump was inaugurated they were calling for his impeachment and then actually impeached him.

[hollodero]

(11-09-2020, 01:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Well, I hope you're right, but I wouldn't give the Dems too much credit considering that before Trump was inaugurated they were calling for his impeachment and then actually impeached him.

If five years ago someone had told me an US president held back military aid approved by Congress and according to multiple front line witnesses it was obvious that releasing the money was dependent on announcing an investigation into a political rival, I would have had no doubt that this will result in impeachment procedures.

To use that example to claim democrats will go after vocal Trump supporters, including legally, is taking it a step too far, imho.

[*Nately120*]

(11-09-2020, 01:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Well, I hope you're right, but I wouldn't give the Dems too much credit considering that before Trump was inaugurated they were calling for his impeachment and then actually impeached him.

The "do nothing democrats" strike again.

(11-09-2020, 01:35 PM)hollodero Wrote: If five years ago someone had told me an US president held back military aid approved by Congress and according to multiple front line witnesses it was obvious that releasing the money was dependent on announcing an investigation into a political rival, I would have no doubt that this will result in impeachment procedures.

To use that example to claim democrats will go after vocal Trump supporters, including legally, is taking it a step too far, imho.

Yep.  You can call bad form on democrats for being so happy that Trump got impeached but it's Trump's own fault for doing something so impeachable.  Maybe Trump fans should scale back their defense and say that even IF Trump didn't do something worthy of being impeached he still would have been impeached.

[fredtoast]

(11-09-2020, 12:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: AOC is the most prominent name though there are others. One even started the "Trump Accountability Project". The goal is to hold them "responsible" for supporting/enabling Trump. So I guess it could be to investigate and/or "lock em up".

As usual your "guess" is wrong.  No one has said anything about locking up any of these people.  Instead it is about holding them accountable.  Not letting them act like they never supported Trump to begin with. 

(11-09-2020, 12:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You do agree, though, that this is reprehensible and should NOT be something people engage in. Right?

No.  I think everyone who supported Trump without question should not be able to try and "walk back" their support when things go the other way.

[Belsnickel]

(11-09-2020, 01:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As usual your "guess" is wrong.  No one has said anything about locking up any of these people.  Instead it is about holding them accountable.  Not letting them act like they never supported Trump to begin with. 



No.  I think everyone who supported Trump without question should not be able to try and "walk back" their support when things go the other way.

I mean, it could go a different direction...

[fredtoast]

(11-09-2020, 12:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I guess my main point is the same it's always been, be responsible for your own behavior.  Be consistent in what you state you want and act accordingly. 

In order to "get what we want" we have to point out the lies and bullshit Trump is spreading.

Refusing to call him out on his lies and misbehavior is actually bad for the country.

His supporters see it as "picking on him".  The other side sees it as defending the truth and supporting the democracy.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-09-2020, 02:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In order to "get what we want" we have to point out the lies and bullshit Trump is spreading.

Refusing to call him out on his lies and misbehavior is actually bad for the country.

His supporters see it as "picking on him".  The other side sees it as defending the truth and supporting the democracy.

There's a way to do both, it just requires a degree of maturity and professionalism that appears to be lacking.

[Belsnickel]

(11-09-2020, 02:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: There's a way to do both, it just requires a degree of maturity and professionalism that appears to be lacking.

So here is a thought I just had about this. Journalists are human. They have their own opinions, preferences, and biases. They have been faced with a hostile administration from the onset. They've made mistakes and slip-ups along the way; I don't think anyone would deny that. But the majority of the time the journalists for reputable news agencies are trying to report the information without editorializing it. They have been facing new challenges throughout this time. Note, this is about journalists and not opinion writers or talking heads.

This makes me think a lot about how police are viewed by the public. Police are often tasked with a job in which they are asked to put aside their opinions, biases, etc. and do things that are often above and beyond their training. But both journalists and police are human. They both will have their biases crop up in their work because that is what happens with humans. If a reporter, an actual journalist, comes across as a little too happy over the election results while reporting the facts then that is a human thing and we should have room for them to be imperfect in that way.

[NATI BENGALS]

(11-09-2020, 12:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: AOC is the most prominent name though there are others. One even started the "Trump Accountability Project". The goal is to hold them "responsible" for supporting/enabling Trump. So I guess it could be to investigate and/or "lock em up".

You do agree, though, that this is reprehensible and should NOT be something people engage in. Right? Just like it was wrong for Trump to even suggest locking up his political opposition, it's also wrong for AOC and Democrats, right?

Do you have a problem with accountability and truth? The Republican Party used to hold hearing after hearing on emails and Benghazi because they wanted accountability and truth. Why do you no longer want that?

I know this may come as a shock so get ready. Holding our leaders to a higher standard and making them accountable for their actions is actually a good thing.

When Biden lies and spreads baseless conspiracy theories feel free to call him out. When Biden withholds aid to a foreign government in a scheme to rig an election feel free to call him out. When Biden incites violence and uses his office to divide the country feel free to call him out.

[*Nately120*]

(11-09-2020, 02:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So here is a thought I just had about this. Journalists are human. They have their own opinions, preferences, and biases. They have been faced with a hostile administration from the onset. They've made mistakes and slip-ups along the way; I don't think anyone would deny that. But the majority of the time the journalists for reputable news agencies are trying to report the information without editorializing it. They have been facing new challenges throughout this time. Note, this is about journalists and not opinion writers or talking heads.

This makes me think a lot about how police are viewed by the public. Police are often tasked with a job in which they are asked to put aside their opinions, biases, etc. and do things that are often above and beyond their training. But both journalists and police are human. They both will have their biases crop up in their work because that is what happens with humans. If a reporter, an actual journalist, comes across as a little too happy over the election results while reporting the facts then that is a human thing and we should have room for them to be imperfect in that way.

Side note, I recall in grad school in a social psychology class talking about an study that was done regarding Walter Cronkite discussing the 1984 election and people could actually tell which candidate he was speaking about absent of audio based upon his facial cues and other nonverbals.  As you said, people are people and people are human.  If you just want the black and white of things just look at Trump's tweets and judge for yourself.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-09-2020, 01:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As usual your "guess" is wrong.  No one has said anything about locking up any of these people.  Instead it is about holding them accountable.  Not letting them act like they never supported Trump to begin with. 



No.  I think everyone who supported Trump without question should not be able to try and "walk back" their support when things go the other way.

https://twitter.com/HariSevugan/status/1324767987346407424

Yep, sure looks like they're only interested in making sure those who support Trump now don't later try to "get away" with claiming they never supported Trump.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-09-2020, 02:17 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Do you have a problem with accountability and truth? The Republican Party used to hold hearing after hearing on emails and Benghazi because they wanted accountability and truth. Why do you no longer want that?

I know this may come as a shock so get ready. Holding our leaders to a higher standard and making them accountable for their actions is actually a good thing.

Please show me where it is illegal to support Donald Trump.

[fredtoast]

(11-09-2020, 03:10 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yep, sure looks like they're only interested in making sure those who support Trump now don't later try to "get away" with claiming they never supported Trump.

Yep.  Just like I said.  No mention of locking anyone up or bringing any criminal charges.

[fredtoast]

(11-09-2020, 03:11 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Please show me where it is illegal to support Donald Trump.

Please show me where anyone claimed it was illegal.

[*michaelsean*]

(11-09-2020, 01:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I mean, it could go a different direction...

Are you serious? Do you not know any personally?