Outstanding warrants being arrested and no sex predators at Hurricane Irma shelters

[StLucieBengal]

I am happy to see this, normal decent honest people shouldn't have to deal with any of these people.

I see they are also getting some hassle for doing this as well.

[BmorePat87]

This makes sense until you realize they're going to possibly jail people trying to escape a life threatening storm over parking tickets

[GMDino]

(09-07-2017, 12:26 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This makes sense until you realize they're going to possibly jail people trying to escape a life threatening storm over parking tickets

And then the jails will be overcrowded...

[*PhilHos*]

The grammar nazi in me is cringing at the thread title. Warranst - being inanimate objects - are incapable of being arrested.

[Au165]

(09-07-2017, 12:26 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This makes sense until you realize they're going to possibly jail people trying to escape a life threatening storm over parking tickets

This. Wrong time and place to try and round up all your warrants. Probably will raise court battles anyway over the legality of just stopping people entering a shelter to run them for warrants.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-07-2017, 12:26 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This makes sense until you realize they're going to possibly jail people trying to escape a life threatening storm over parking tickets

That if paid, would have gone towards the shelters operation cost and the emergency crew's salaries, among other things. Sure wish you didn't break the law, forcing other people pay for the services for you then, eh?

[Au165]

(09-07-2017, 02:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That if paid, would have gone towards the shelters operation cost and the emergency crew's salaries, among other things. Sure wish you didn't break the law, forcing other people pay for the services for you then, eh?

...you don't think your taxes are the thing paying for the shelter?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-07-2017, 02:49 PM)Au165 Wrote: ...you don't think your taxes are the thing paying for the shelter?

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/06/27/good-question-where-does-traffic-ticket-money-go/

Quote:Of the $145 fine, $75 of is a surcharge that goes to a state fund. Legislator use that money for things like education, domestic violence advocacy and conservation projects.


“There’s almost a list as long as your forearm of the things that are funded out of the surcharge,” he said.

There’s also a $3 fee that goes toward county law libraries. After that, the rest of the money in Hennepin County is split: 80 percent goes to the cities and 20 percent goes to the state’s general fund. In St. Paul, the split is two-thirds to the city and one-third to the state. In the Ramsey County cities outside of St. Paul, the city and state split it 50-50. In Chisago County, the money is also split 50-50 between the city and general fund. For all other counties, two-thirds goes to the city and one-third goes to the state.

Sure, partially, but tickets are a stupidly large generator of money each year ($60m in Minneapolis' county in 2013). Now do I agree with the system? No, I think it's predatory, basically another form of tax, and occasionally can skirt the line of plain theft. But until it changes, the fact is it does indeed pay for a lot of things, and it's illegal to not pay them.

[Au165]

(09-07-2017, 02:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/06/27/good-question-where-does-traffic-ticket-money-go/


Sure, partially, but tickets are a stupidly large generator of money each year ($60m in Minneapolis' county in 2013). Now do I agree with the system? No. But until it changes, the fact is it does indeed pay for a lot of things, and it's illegal to not pay them.

The reality is you are talking about life and death situations. I am telling you right now, a family of someone with a warrant who dies because they were scared to go to a shelter will be paid by Polk county after settling out of court. It isn't even legal what they are claiming they are going to do. If they try to do this an arrest those who don't comply you will be looking an even more money wasted. This to me appears to be a publicity stunt by the sheriff.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-07-2017, 03:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: The reality is you are talking about life and death situations. I am telling you right now, a family of someone with a warrant who dies because they were scared to go to a shelter will be paid by Polk county after settling out of court. It isn't even legal what they are claiming they are going to do. If they try to do this an arrest those who don't comply you will be looking an even more money wasted. This to me appears to be a publicity stunt by the sheriff.

How do you figure it's not legal what they're claiming to do? It's not legal for law enforcement to refuse to follow through on an arrest warrant. That's not their decision to make. If someone with a warrant that's wanted for sexual assault is allowed into the shelter and they rape someone, Polk county is in even worse shape both morally and financially. You focused on the parking ticket, but what about the people wanted for rape, assault, murder, etc? If you're going to check for them, then you have to check for everyone, and if you check for everyone, then how are you going to let people with arrest warrants go free? Where's the dividing line between not criminal enough to arrest and too criminal to allow free reign?

There were some horror stories out there about shelters during/after Katrina. It seems like they don't want a repeat of that.

It's not a perfect solution by any means, but if you have to err on the side of the law abiding, or err on the side of those with an arrest warrant out for them, then the police should err on the side of the law abiding.

[GMDino]

(09-07-2017, 03:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How do you figure it's not legal what they're claiming to do? It's not legal for law enforcement to refuse to follow through on an arrest warrant. That's not their decision to make. If someone with a warrant that's wanted for sexual assault is allowed into the shelter and they rape someone, Polk county is in even worse shape both morally and financially. You focused on the parking ticket, but what about the people wanted for rape, assault, murder, etc? If you're going to check for them, then you have to check for everyone, and if you check for everyone, then how are you going to let people with arrest warrants go free? Where's the dividing line between not criminal enough to arrest and too criminal to allow free reign?

There were some horror stories out there about shelters during/after Katrina. It seems like they don't want a repeat of that.

It's not a perfect solution by any means, but if you have to err on the side of the law abiding, or err on the side of those with an arrest warrant out for them, then the police should err on the side of the law abiding.

Well they can let someone go who has an overdue parking ticket out of humanitarian reasons versus someone with a warrant for rape or murder.

One would seem to be a larger threat inside a shelter than the other.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-07-2017, 03:14 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well they can let someone go who has an overdue parking ticket out of humanitarian reasons versus someone with a warrant for rape or murder.

One would seem to be a larger threat inside a shelter than the other.

Yes, parking ticket vs murder... easy choice there.

What about assault vs extortion? Robbery vs counterfeiting? DUI vs drug dealing? Pot possession vs hit and run?

Where exactly does the line get drawn? That's the problem. At what point is the crime too much to ignore, and who gets to decide that point?

[BmorePat87]

(09-07-2017, 02:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That if paid, would have gone towards the shelters operation cost and the emergency crew's salaries, among other things. Sure wish you didn't break the law, forcing other people pay for the services for you then, eh?

If a jurisdiction is finding that their less affluent citizens cannot afford the fines they are assessing for things like parking or traffic violations, they may want to lower the fines. Not only will they be able to collect these fines and actually get the money, but they won't prevent these citizens from spending their money within the community on the goods and services they need to survive. That and no debtor's prison. 



There's also the fact that those unequally burdened by these fines are the ones who actually need the shelter. I just don't see someone who couldn't pay their parking ticket the same way I see a rapist or a mugger. 

[BmorePat87]

(09-07-2017, 03:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes, parking ticket vs murder... easy choice there.

What about assault vs extortion? Robbery vs counterfeiting? DUI vs drug dealing? Pot possession vs hit and run?

Where exactly does the line get drawn? That's the problem. At what point is the crime too much to ignore, and who gets to decide that point?

I would say parking ticket and pot possession are not on the same level as the other things your listed. 

In my state those two are fines of $100 or less and no jail time while the others are sending you to jail.

[GMDino]

(09-07-2017, 03:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes, parking ticket vs murder... easy choice there.

What about assault vs extortion? Robbery vs counterfeiting? DUI vs drug dealing? Pot possession vs hit and run?

Where exactly does the line get drawn? That's the problem. At what point is the crime too much to ignore, and who gets to decide that point?

Yes -  allow into shelter
parking ticket
dui
possession

No
murder
assualt
extortion
robbery
counterfeiting
hit and run

That was pretty easy.

[BengalHawk62]

are they going to have to supply two forms of identification to enter said shelter?

[Belsnickel]

This seems all fine and dandy until you realize that you are probably going to put someone's life at risk for a minor crime. Criminals ain't the smartest folks, and they will likely avoid a shelter they may need to get to because it could end up in arrest. Now you've put someone's life at risk for what may have been a shoplifting charge.

I didn't comment on this for a while because of me thinking out the pros and cons.

[Au165]

(09-07-2017, 03:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How do you figure it's not legal what they're claiming to do? It's not legal for law enforcement to refuse to follow through on an arrest warrant. That's not their decision to make. If someone with a warrant that's wanted for sexual assault is allowed into the shelter and they rape someone, Polk county is in even worse shape both morally and financially. You focused on the parking ticket, but what about the people wanted for rape, assault, murder, etc? If you're going to check for them, then you have to check for everyone, and if you check for everyone, then how are you going to let people with arrest warrants go free? Where's the dividing line between not criminal enough to arrest and too criminal to allow free reign?

There were some horror stories out there about shelters during/after Katrina. It seems like they don't want a repeat of that.

It's not a perfect solution by any means, but if you have to err on the side of the law abiding, or err on the side of those with an arrest warrant out for them, then the police should err on the side of the law abiding.

A police officer can not stop and ID someone without reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. Since the statements of the Sheriff were made public that it was going to be a drag net of everyone this would be a reasonable assumption of a violation of the 4th amendment. The supreme court has already ruled that "Stop and ID" laws like what florida has are legal, however they CAN NOT be used to carry out wide sweeping requests for ID without a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. As I said, they would waste far more tax payer (and ticket payer) money settling these violations than anything gained from this illegal operation.

[*Nately120*]

Hmm, I prefer those "You totally won a contest that you didn't even enter!" ruses to lure in people with outstanding warrants. This is a nice take on it though.

[GMDino]

No reason for a new thread about the hurricane so I'll put this here.

http://reverepress.com/news/claiming-irma-liberal-hoax-rush-limbaugh-quietly-evacuates-florida/

Quote:After claiming Irma was a liberal hoax, Rush Limbaugh quietly evacuates Florida

Conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh has been trying to downplay Category 5 Hurricane Irma as empty hype from the media to promote a liberal agenda — but now even he is evacuating his South Florida base.


“These storms, once they actually hit, are never as strong as they’re reported,” Limbaugh had said on his syndicated radio show. He added that “the graphics have been created to make it look like the ocean’s having an exorcism, just getting rid of the devil here in the form of this hurricane, this bright red stuff.”



He detailed a theory for why the media was allegedly trumping up data about one of the strongest hurricanes ever on record as a scare tactic for financial gain:

Quote:There is symbiotic relationship between retailers and local media, and it’s related to money. It revolves around money. You have major, major industries and businesses which prosper during times of crisis and panic, such as a hurricane, which could destroy or greatly damage people’s homes, and it could interrupt the flow of water and electricity. So what happens?

Well, the TV stations begin reporting this and the panic begins to increase. And then people end up going to various stores to stock up on water and whatever they might need for home repairs and batteries and all this that they’re advised to get, and a vicious circle is created. You have these various retail outlets who spend a lot of advertising dollars with the local media.

The local media, in turn, reports in such a way as to create the panic way far out, which sends people into these stores to fill up with water and to fill up with batteries, and it becomes a never-ending repeated cycle. And the two coexist. So the media benefits with the panic with increased eyeballs, and the retailers benefit from the panic with increased sales, and the TV companies benefit because they’re getting advertising dollars from the businesses that are seeing all this attention from customers.

Then, during his Thursday show, Limbaugh said he would not be on-air for several days.

“May as well… announce this. I’m not going to get into details because of the security nature of things, but it turns out that we will not be able to do the program here tomorrow,” Limbaugh said Thursday. “We’ll be on the air next week, folks, from parts unknown.”

Quote:[/url]

[url=https://twitter.com/juliettekayyem] Follow
Juliette Kayyem 

@juliettekayyem
Rush Limbaugh spent show mocking fears raised by scientists @ #Irma. People listen to that, they believe him. Now HE is evacuating. #shame
7:35 AM - Sep 8, 2017