Oz and Walker

[masonbengals fan]

(10-28-2022, 04:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yes, being full of crap works in politics, no matter how much voters say they can't stand lying politicians.  Politicians are full of crap and lie to voters because they represent people who are full of crap and lie to themselves.

Sunny vibes all around, eh?

Lot of truth in that. 

Politicians & lies go hand in hand. No surprise there.

But my question remains. Isn't that way of looking at things (Are we better off than before ?) the exact way we should vote ? 

That question is to all of you reading this? Speak up....

[CKwi88]

(10-28-2022, 04:19 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Lot of truth in that. 

Politicians & lies go hand in hand. No surprise there.

But my question remains. Isn't that way of looking at things (Are we better off than before ?) the exact way we should vote ? 

That question is to all of you reading this? Speak up....

Such oversimplistic thinking is the exact way we should not vote. 

[BengalYankee]

(10-28-2022, 08:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Those books were written after Paul's death. They have long been attributed to Paul, but they aren't his.

Sorry, but I will take my chances with "The Word" over you and your pastor friends.

P.S. I assume your pastor friends cherry-pick certain sections of the Bible. Must be fun with weekly Bible study night picking out the sections they don't like. 

[masonbengals fan]

(10-28-2022, 04:33 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Such oversimplistic thinking is the exact way we should not vote. 

It is absolutely a simple way of looking at it.

How else should a voter look at things ? I'm genuinely interested in your reply.

Doesn't everyone look out for themselves & their family's best interest and vote accordingly.

At least what they perceive to be their best interest. 

[BengalYankee]

(10-28-2022, 09:28 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Don't care.

You used to be such a fun, engaging poster on the mothership. Now you post like a bitter and angry old man.

Shouldn't call people names either, against TOS.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-28-2022, 11:58 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Agreed, but to be fair, if you're trying to balance the thread topic then that's what you'd have to do.  This PnR section trends hard left.  Sadly, the posters who leaned right were either trolls/extremists (you can figure out who those are I'm sure), or they got tired of the left wing echo chamber in which they were attacked immediately upon saying anything right of Stalin.  Also, as I said, I get the same accusation hurled at me all the time, using much of the same argument you posted here, so I am sensitive to others being accused of lying in this regard.

And I agree with that too. As I have a lot of left-leaning tendencies and attitudes, it just bothers me less, I guess.

The Stalin line is just brilliant

Quote:Which, again, he'd be doing if he's following his stated goal of bringing balance to the thread.  But I'm honestly not trying to convince you of anything, you have eyes and a brain and can draw your own conclusions.  I just wanted to throw out some points that may give you a different perspective.  So, no worries either way.

Absolutely well-stated.

I try earnestly to take a 3rd-party stance to everything (unless I explicitly state that I'm not lol), so sometimes I am also guilty of going against the trend in order to balance things out.

Or I just sit it out.

[CKwi88]

(10-28-2022, 04:40 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: It is a simple way of looking at it.

How else should a voter look at things ? I'm genuinely interested in your reply.

A disturbingly shortsighted simple way I supposed. Were you Ukrainian would you vote for a Putin sycophant because the country is worse off than it was two years ago?

IMO, voters should evaluate the candidates and come to a determination as to who they believe would be best for the country going forward. Sounds easy enough to get everyone on the same page I'm sure.  

[masonbengals fan]

(10-28-2022, 04:51 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: A disturbingly shortsighted simple way I supposed. Were you Ukrainian would you vote for a Putin sycophant because the country is worse off than it was two years ago?

IMO, voters should evaluate the candidates and come to a determination as to who they believe would be best for the country going forward. Sounds easy enough to get everyone on the same page I'm sure.  

That's a pretty farfetched scenario.   In that particular case I would be willing to make personal sacrifices. As I'm sure most everyone would.

At least I'd hope they would.

But thankfully that's not where we are at exactly. Although we as a country are most certainly making sacrifices for Ukraine now.

[BengalYankee]

(10-28-2022, 11:58 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Agreed, but to be fair, if you're trying to balance the thread topic then that's what you'd have to do.  This PnR section trends hard left.  Sadly, the posters who leaned right were either trolls/extremists (you can figure out who those are I'm sure), or they got tired of the left wing echo chamber in which they were attacked immediately upon saying anything right of Stalin.  Also, as I said, I get the same accusation hurled at me all the time, using much of the same argument you posted here, so I am sensitive to others being accused of lying in this regard.


Which, again, he'd be doing if he's following his stated goal of bringing balance to the thread.  But I'm honestly not trying to convince you of anything, you have eyes and a brain and can draw your own conclusions.  I just wanted to throw out some points that may give you a different perspective.  So, no worries either way.

Thank you soo much for your kind words.
I do try to level out a discussion as I see this thread is weighted to the left, which I don't mind. I only wanted to show different views that a person won't get from CNN and MSNBC. 

People here tend to judge without hearing your views on topics. If I was at a Republican get together party, I would be thrown out after they discovered my views on topics. 

I have been told by a member here that I am a bitter old man. Well, I should be CNN used to be my favorite news network before they went all-left. MSNBC was decent, especially with Morning Joe  as it used to be a balanced show with Joe S. balancing out Mika. And before that with Imus in the Morning who would insult both parties. And if members here remembered the old Bengals website I used to attack Fox News with a vengence, because I hated George Bush, who I think was the worst president in my life. And all Fox News was put him on a pedestal.

Not naming names, but a person would have to blind and stupid to think that CNN and MSNBC and the Democratic party are the same from 10 years ago. Roger Ailes is gone from Fox News and the network I used to love to hate has become more balanced. Maybe not from anything they did, but because the other networks went hard left. 

These days I can't understand how a person can  be 100% for a party. I have different views that I like and dislike from each party. What I do see is that with the Democratic party, if you are not 100% lock-step then they don't want you and want to cancel you. 

Sorry about the ranting my friend I just wanted to get this off my chest.

[*Nately120*]

(10-28-2022, 04:40 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: It is absolutely a simple way of looking at it.

How else should a voter look at things ? I'm genuinely interested in your reply.

Doesn't everyone look out for themselves & their family's best interest and vote accordingly.

At least what they perceive to be their best interest. 

Ida know, we tend to romanticize the concept and memory of people who sacrifice for the good of the country, so voting based on "how am I doing now?" seems a bit counter to that.

"Am I doing better?" isn't always what is best for society.  Not saying I have the strength of character to put others first, either though.

[masonbengals fan]

(10-28-2022, 06:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ida know, we tend to romanticize the concept and memory of people who sacrifice for the good of the country, so voting based on "how am I doing now?" seems a bit counter to that.

"Am I doing better?" isn't always what is best for society.  Not saying I have the strength of character to put others first, either though.

Nobody does. We are flawed humans.

I should have probably worded that differently. Didn’t mean my personal well being but 1st and foremost my family, myself, friends, community, state and my country. Mostly in that order. LOL

[*Nately120*]

(10-28-2022, 04:41 PM)BengalYankee Wrote:

Beware the old guy who wants kids to get on his lawn.

[BengalYankee]

(10-28-2022, 07:29 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Beware the old guy who wants kids to get on his lawn.

[BigPapaKain]

(10-28-2022, 06:10 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Nobody does. We are flawed humans.

Bullshit. I always vote for the good of the community over the good of the self. I do fine. My wife does fine. We're not at a point where we can buy a thousand books for our underfunded school system, but you can be damn sure we vote to give them more funding and to curb political control over the curriculum. Same with our zoo, our museum, or science learning center - anything to make our community a better place for everyone. We try and vote the same way at the national level, but national politicians lie out of both sides of their mouths, so you just do the best you can.

That said - I tend to favor politicians who vote for things like infrastructure and corporate taxes than the ones who babble about pizzeria pedophile rings or stolen elections without proof, and especially against the ones who don't believe in bodily autonomy.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(10-28-2022, 09:51 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Bullshit. I always vote for the good of the community over the good of the self. I do fine. My wife does fine. We're not at a point where we can buy a thousand books for our underfunded school system, but you can be damn sure we vote to give them more funding and to curb political control over the curriculum. Same with our zoo, our museum, or science learning center - anything to make our community a better place for everyone. We try and vote the same way at the national level, but national politicians lie out of both sides of their mouths, so you just do the best you can.

That said - I tend to favor politicians who vote for things like infrastructure and corporate taxes than the ones who babble about pizzeria pedophile rings or stolen elections without proof, and especially against the ones who don't believe in bodily autonomy.

See there's a fundamental flaw in the bodily autonomy argument (Assuming you are talking about abortion). I believe a fetus/mass of cells or whatever is a growing human being with a soul. I am assuming you do not. There's no real middle ground there for anyone. It's a terrible thing to end that life in my opinion. I mean I can understand if there's a problem or the mother is or could potentially die, but that's just one of the terrible decisions you would have to make in the moment. I feel like if you honestly believe what is growing inside is a person too, then where is their autonomy.

Now I can't answer what do we do with all the births. I guess in a perfect world we would offer easily accessible and free birth control and free healthcare to pay for anyone that wishes to surgically remove the possibility of getting pregnant. On top of generally not going around having sex as much as possible with as many people as possible. But alas free will.

[Dill]

(10-28-2022, 03:15 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Dill I put it about as simply as I could when I wrote "We won't get change unless you vote for change" And I fully realize change may not happen then. 

 Looking at where our country is now can you name anything that is better now than 2 years ago. The only thing that comes to my mind is covid seems to be on the decline. At least the severity of it. Other than that I got nada. Am I wrong ? Can you name any ? Anybody ?

 You have never attacked me that I'm aware of. We can agree to disagree without resorting to that. 

Sure, and we'll get "change" if we vote in Republicans. The House will become ungovernable as the vendettas begin.

No more infrastructure spending. The fight for better healthcare will be over. etc. The debt ceiling will become a lever
for cutting medicare and climate spending, and this time around the Qanons will have McCarthy by the balls. 
The chaos of the trump years will return.

So just "change" is not really what I want, given how much worse things could be.

I don't blame Biden for COViD. That still affects us negatively. I was not for leaving A-stan, but the mess there was not simply Biden's fault. 
Other than that, I'd say Biden has done a great deal for the country, both in terms of the bills that have barely passed and a foreign policy which marshals the international community to uphold international law. Plus I may get affordable hearing aids soon.

If our "2 years" starts in October of 2020, then yes, I do see a change for the better. The government is much more stable now, with a leader who understands rule of law. The last three months of Trump's administration were tremendously disruptive, culminating in the national shame of Jan 6. We still can't go a week without some new scandal in NY, GA, and FL, and new round of threats to any and all who would uphold the law. If the GOP wins the House, it will be indirectly under Trump's control.  

Think of the millions of libs owned when the House refuses to raise the debt ceiling. Vengeance on the whole country.

But I'm still puzzled. What would be better if the party of NO wins any house of Congress? No background checks maybe? Open carry legalized nationally? Oil rigs in Bears Ears National Park? Whose taxes would be cut again?

[Dill]

(10-28-2022, 05:23 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: People here tend to judge without hearing your views on topics. If I was at a Republican get together party, I would be thrown out after they discovered my views on topics. 

I have been told by a member here that I am a bitter old man. Well, I should be CNN used to be my favorite news network before they went all-left. MSNBC was decent, especially with Morning Joe  as it used to be a balanced show with Joe S. balancing out Mika. And before that with Imus in the Morning who would insult both parties. And if members here remembered the old Bengals website I used to attack Fox News with a vengence, because I hated George Bush, who I think was the worst president in my life. And all Fox News was put him on a pedestal.

Not naming names, but a person would have to blind and stupid to think that CNN and MSNBC and the Democratic party are the same from 10 years ago. Roger Ailes is gone from Fox News and the network I used to love to hate has become more balanced. Maybe not from anything they did, but because the other networks went hard left. 

These days I can't understand how a person can  be 100% for a party. I have different views that I like and dislike from each party. What I do see is that with the Democratic party, if you are not 100% lock-step then they don't want you and want to cancel you. 

Sorry about the ranting my friend I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Um, I'll bet you find a LOT of people at Republican gatherings insisting on how balanced and non-partisan they are because there is this or
that one or two "leftist" causes like pro-choice or tax corporations a little more that they have "always supported."  ANy MAGA types there will give you a high five for hating a Bush--especially if you hate all of them.

But my real question is, what makes a position "hard-left" for you, especially if you think Fox has become more balanced since the loss of Shepherd Smith and Wallace and the increasing visibility of Hannity and Carlson? Some prominent Repubs, like McConnell and McCarthy and Graham, were actually ready to hold Trump accountable after 1/6--until Fox commentators recognized that would give Dems more power. Owing to Fox, the number of people who believe that the election was stolen and Trump bears no responsibility for the Capitol riots has increased. 
George Will gone from Fox too. 

I don't think this is a far left forum either, at least by traditional conceptions of the political spectrum. What criteria are you deploying here? 

Also I'm curious as to why you think people have to be "lock step" in the Dem party? Sure they are not going to like you if you say Biden
weaponized the DoJ, but Dem candidates are not scrambling to get Biden's endorsement based on acceptance of a lie. They aren't demoting people for wanting to uphold the law.  How can you tell when people have to be in "lock step" in a party, or not? 

[*pally*]

(10-28-2022, 05:23 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Thank you soo much for your kind words.
I do try to level out a discussion as I see this thread is weighted to the left, which I don't mind. I only wanted to show different views that a person won't get from CNN and MSNBC. 

People here tend to judge without hearing your views on topics. If I was at a Republican get together party, I would be thrown out after they discovered my views on topics. 

I have been told by a member here that I am a bitter old man. Well, I should be CNN used to be my favorite news network before they went all-left. MSNBC was decent, especially with Morning Joe  as it used to be a balanced show with Joe S. balancing out Mika. And before that with Imus in the Morning who would insult both parties. And if members here remembered the old Bengals website I used to attack Fox News with a vengence, because I hated George Bush, who I think was the worst president in my life. And all Fox News was put him on a pedestal.

Not naming names, but a person would have to blind and stupid to think that CNN and MSNBC and the Democratic party are the same from 10 years ago. Roger Ailes is gone from Fox News and the network I used to love to hate has become more balanced. Maybe not from anything they did, but because the other networks went hard left. 

These days I can't understand how a person can  be 100% for a party. I have different views that I like and dislike from each party. What I do see is that with the Democratic party, if you are not 100% lock-step then they don't want you and want to cancel you. 

Sorry about the ranting my friend I just wanted to get this off my chest.

The Democratic Party has room in it for both Bernie Sanders and Joe Manchin. Neither has been censured by the Party for going against policy or for criticizing the President. They have such politically diverse members as Ed Case and Pramila Jayapal. Heck even Tulsi Gabbard was a Democrat until she took her ball and went home. Her own choice. The Dems allow for differences. All you had to do was look at all they had contending for the 2020 Presidential nomination.
The Republicans, on the other hand, have censured dozens of Party members who didn’t fall into line about the lies about a stolen election. They censured people who disagreed with Trump. Alaska’s GOP censured Mitch McConnell because he backed a different Republican for Senate than Trump. Republicans even have a name for people who don’t toe the Trump lines. They call them RINOS. My goodness, they’ve even accused conservative Mike DeWine of being a Democrat during COVID

Cancel culture is a made up right wing thing. They like to use the idea to promote their victimhood. I particularly love seeing them on social media claiming they are being silenced on the very platform they are using. Others who have been targeted by conservatives… Kuerig, Starbucks, Disney, Delta, NFL, Target all because they did or said something conservatives didn’t like.

And the only way Fox is balanced is if you have a ridiculously narrow view of that meaning. Balanced means you honestly present both sides. And both sides is not the difference between extremely right wing and very extremely right wing. They tried for 5 minutes when they correctly said Biden won Arizona. But then Trump whined and told the cult to watch Newsmax and OAN, so they veered further to the right to please their master.

[BigPapaKain]

(10-28-2022, 10:18 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: See there's a fundamental flaw in the bodily autonomy argument (Assuming you are talking about abortion). I believe a fetus/mass of cells or whatever is a growing human being with a soul. I am assuming you do not. There's no real middle ground there for anyone. It's a terrible thing to end that life in my opinion. I mean I can understand if there's a problem or the mother is or could potentially die, but that's just one of the terrible decisions you would have to make in the moment. I feel like if you honestly believe what is growing inside is a person too, then where is their autonomy.

Now I can't answer what do we do with all the births. I guess in a perfect world we would offer easily accessible and free birth control and free healthcare to pay for anyone that wishes to surgically remove the possibility of getting pregnant. On top of generally not going around having sex as much as possible with as many people as possible. But alas free will.

Religious scholars and the Bible (well, the Torah which is the Old Testament) say life begins at breath, so your belief is based off Evangelical propaganda that only started after Roe v Wade. Ironically before then, Christianity was very much Pro-Choice. 

But I mean whatever floats your penis - I just hope you let every single virus run its course through your body. Wouldn't want to kill a cluster of cells now would we?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-29-2022, 02:47 AM)pally Wrote: The Democratic Party has room in it for both Bernie Sanders and Joe Manchin.  Neither has been censured by the Party for going against policy or for criticizing the President.  They have such politically diverse members as Ed Case and Pramila Jayapal.  Heck even Tulsi Gabbard was a Democrat until she took her ball and went home.  Her own choice. The Dems allow for differences.  All you had to do was look at all they had contending for the 2020 Presidential nomination.

You must have missed how much shit Manchin got from his colleagues the past two years.  Sinema too.

Quote:The Republicans, on the other hand, have censured dozens of Party members who didn’t fall into line about the lies about a stolen election.  They censured people who disagreed with Trump.  Alaska’s GOP censured Mitch McConnell because he backed a different Republican for Senate than Trump.  Republicans even have a name for people who don’t toe the Trump lines.  They call them RINOS.  My goodness, they’ve even accused conservative Mike DeWine of being a Democrat during COVID

Someone has never heard the term "blue dog Democrat".  Yes, I will certainly admit that the GOP demands more ideological purity from it's congressional members than the Dems.  But please don't act like the Dems don't engage in similar, if not so overt, behavior.

Quote:Cancel culture is a made up right wing thing.  They like to use the idea to promote their victimhood.  I particularly love seeing them on social media claiming they are being silenced on the very platform they are using. Others who have been targeted by conservatives… Kuerig, Starbucks, Disney, Delta, NFL, Target all because they did or said something conservatives didn’t like.

This is 100% bullshit.  Norm MacDonald was brutally attacked and had bookings canceled because he used the term "******" and had an "unacceptable" take on the Louis CK and Roseanne cancelling's.  His take was apparently so "toxic" that staff at The Tonight Show were literally crying about his potentially appearing on the show, resulting in the booking being cancelled.  People are "cancelled" all the time for things they wrote or tweeted years, if not decades ago.  Unless you're a far lefter like Joy Reid, then you get to type homophobic blog posts, then lie about not writing them and being "hacked", then have the authorities state there is no evidence of hacking then giving a less than halfassed apology and then it all goes away.  If I were so inclined I could literally list hundreds of instances of cancel culture.

I gave you well deserved credit for an excellent point in another thread, calling it possibly the best post in several years.  This take right here is as garbage as that one was excellent.

Quote:And the only way Fox is balanced is if you have a ridiculously narrow view of that meaning.  Balanced means you honestly present both sides.  And both sides is not the difference between extremely right wing and very extremely right wing.  They tried for 5 minutes when they correctly said Biden won Arizona.  But then Trump whined and told the cult to watch Newsmax and OAN, so they veered further to the right to please their master.

No one disputes that Fox has a right wing bias, so you are essentially arguing with him about the matter of degree.