P&R News

[Rotobeast]

Can I nominate Nately for Mod ?
I feel he would be a great troll-wrangler.


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[*Nately120*]

(08-27-2023, 02:08 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Can I nominate Nately for Mod ?
I feel he would be a great troll-wrangler.

I can't even moderate my own zipper.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-28-2023, 01:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can't even moderate my own zipper.

Isn't that what Monica Lewinsky said about Bill Clinton?

[Luvnit2]

(08-28-2023, 01:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Isn't that what Monica Lewinsky said about Bill Clinton?

I thought it was Bill Clinton said about Monica, he needed an intern for help.

[Rotobeast]

(08-28-2023, 01:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can't even moderate my own zipper.

See !
You're a full disclosure kind of guy, an open b.... fly.

#FlyGuy

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[Dill]

(08-26-2023, 05:48 PM)Lucidus Wrote: You were speaking to me specifically; I was speaking about volleyball. So, why place the ideas or positions of other upon me, instead of directly addressing my point. It's a disingenuous approach which you have utilized with me prior, and then later admitted to. It's getting rather burdensome to make a point and then have someone argue things you never stated or lump you in with others so as to strawman you. 

With you on the "strawman" argument, although I think people sometimes don't realize they are doing it. They are arguing THEIR point; they're excited and just keep doing that regardless of whether other angles to the topic are introduced.  

Other times yes, it is a tactic. And fairly effective in this kind of venue, which doesn't lend itself to careful review of who actually claimed what. When "strawmaning" is a tactic, the perp will just keep jamming efforts to sort it out rather than working with you in good faith.  That's how to tell whether it was deliberate. 

Most here agree on what counts as a personal attack, but they don't agree on what constitutes sound argument. 

(08-26-2023, 08:37 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Thank you for the reply and I'm glad to hear you're monitoring the issue. Unfortunately, as you can see by the responses that followed my message to you, the behavior continues in the very thread where you admonish it. 

I appreciate that you're trying to make this forum better, I'm considering taking an extended break. It has become much to difficult to have honest exchanges and productive conversations. It's gotten to the point where I'm being told I don't understand science, even though I have degrees in biology and psychology, and am a practicing neuropsychologist. Imagine how frustrating it would be to have people telling you that you don't understand message boards or forum administration. It's become exhausting; as it feels like logic and reason are mere nuisances that regularly get drowned out by faulty premises and invalid conclusions. 

My apologies for venting a bit, but I do hope for the best in terms of making this a better place. 

Well I, for one, hope you hang around. I DO see the value in having a practicing neuropsychologist in the forum. 
We're better with you here because you are very careful in how you present and defend claims. And we just lost someone like that.

As posters here, we have to accept from the get go that there aren't agreed on conventions for what counts as evidence and rational argument. (I think not everyone wants such agreement either, for fear that it would disadvantage them.) That lack makes debates more closely mirror stormy, irrational political debates at the national level. I see a silver lining in our muddles, though, as they force me to view arguments from new angles, and practice arguing with people who break the rules without breaking them myself. That experience makes me better at handling debates in other venues.

Anyway, when I view my participation as, in a few cases, learning how to argue outside the traditional conventions, I don't get very upset about what is said to me or about me. I am engaging a wider spectrum of US political thought than I otherwise would--a great value to me. So when I debate, it's sometimes more about learning, observing and rhetorical experimentation than persuading others or "winning."  E.g., I am constantly innovating ways to manage the "strawmanning," without involving the moderators.  

I don't suggest you engage people for the reasons I do, but it helps if you know in advance that rational discussion of some topics, an even handed and civil back and forth, is not going to happen. Choose your battles and the people to whom you respond.  

[Eraserhead]

Shit, it sucks seeing that both Bels and Lucidus might be leaving the board. They are 2 of my favorite posters to read in here because they're probably the 2 best in here at giving logical arguments, without needing to be all dramatic to make their points.

It stinks what happening to P&R. I don't post too much because I have issues holding my tongue when I see stupid shit,, but I've been reading it for years,, and potentially losing 2 very intelligent posters is a bad sign. It going to get to the point where it's just a few people that like to argue just to argue.

Oh well,, it is what it is I guess.

[Bengalholic]

***Going forward...anyone making matter-of-fact claims on the subjects of COVID, masks and vaccines will need to provide a credible source of information to support those claims. If you are unable to provide that information, then avoid making the claim.

[basballguy]

What’s the deal with closing the only thread on the Israel/Hamas conflict?

Edit: I ask this cause i'm not sure if we're just being told we can't discuss it anymore or if I have to create a new thread to discuss it.

[StoneTheCrow]

(10-12-2023, 09:08 PM)basballguy Wrote: What’s the deal with closing the only thread on the Israel/Hamas conflict?

Edit: I ask this cause i'm not sure if we're just being told we can't discuss it anymore or if I have to create a new thread to discuss it.

Curious as well.

[Dill]

(10-12-2023, 09:08 PM)basballguy Wrote: What’s the deal with closing the only thread on the Israel/Hamas conflict?

Edit:  I ask this cause i'm not sure if we're just being told we can't discuss it anymore or if I have to create a new thread to discuss it.

It's an issue that lots of people would love to keep discussing.

But I'm guessing mods worried it was heating up too rapidly.

I've thought of starting a thread to focus on the international ramifications of the conflict,

the implication of China, Hezbollah, Lebanon, Iran, Qatar (where the head of Hamas lives),

Russia, Syria, and Turkey (where some of Hamas leadership resides).

People usually don't think of such conflict in foreign policy terms, so it would be

wonderful and educational to explore it from that angle. Probably open to the same risk as the Hamas thread, though.

[Bengalholic]

(10-12-2023, 09:08 PM)basballguy Wrote: What’s the deal with closing the only thread on the Israel/Hamas conflict?

Edit:  I ask this cause i'm not sure if we're just being told we can't discuss it anymore or if I have to create a new thread to discuss it.

The thread ran for 10 pages to allow everyone the opportunity to share their thoughts on the subject...but there also came a point in the discussion where it seemed like a good time to close the topic down for now. 

I would prefer it stayed that way for the time being, due to the nature of how threads in here usually end up. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-13-2023, 12:18 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The thread ran for 10 pages to allow everyone the opportunity to share their thoughts on the subject...but there also came a point in the discussion where it seemed like a good time to close the topic down for now. 

I would prefer it stayed that way for the time being, due to the nature of how threads in here usually end up. 

I assumed this was the case, hence my not inquiring about it.  I will say that I think the vast majority of it was strident, but collegial, disagreement.  It's obviously going to be a huge topic, maybe the biggest, for a long time from now, so I would ask that it be allowed to reopen sooner rather than later.  But that's clearly your call.

I won't lie though, I was looking forward to a response to my last post in the thread.

[Dill]

(10-13-2023, 07:04 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I assumed this was the case, hence my not inquiring about it.  I will say that I think the vast majority of it was strident, but collegial, disagreement.  It's obviously going to be a huge topic, maybe the biggest, for a long time from now, so I would ask that it be allowed to reopen sooner rather than later.  But that's clearly your call.

I won't lie though, I was looking forward to a response to my last post in the thread.

Possibly it would have been a caution against violent ideation involving other posters,

and an explanation of how parenthetical remarks and quotations work. . 

[basballguy]

(10-13-2023, 07:04 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I assumed this was the case, hence my not inquiring about it.  I will say that I think the vast majority of it was strident, but collegial, disagreement. 

The way people talk to each other in Jungle Noise is way worse than the worst exchange in PnR. To me the conversation was just fine.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-14-2023, 06:58 AM)basballguy Wrote: The way people talk to each other in Jungle Noise is way worse than the worst exchange in PnR.  To me the conversation was just fine.

I don't frequent Jungle Noise, for obvious reasons.  But the topics here are of a far more sensitive nature and can involve people with completely different sets of values.  For all the disputes about a team within a fanbase at the end of the day you're all fans of the same team.  That cannot be said about topics in here.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-14-2023, 04:01 AM)Dill Wrote: Possibly it would have been a caution against violent ideation involving other posters,

I actually considered while typing that if I should make the example generic.  But then I thought that we're discussing people mitigating the murder of infants and the gang rape of hostages and I thought an example that hit a little closer to home was more appropriate.  For the record, I wouldn't hit someone over a difference of opinion.  I have to exercise a lot of restraint in my line of work.  I've been spit on, had urine and feces thrown at me, and bit.  If I didn't beat any of the multiple offenders in those examples I'm certainly not going to hit an older man for having a difference of opinion with me.

Quote:and an explanation of how parenthetical remarks and quotations work. . 

I often wonder while frequenting here if you have any idea just how unappealing your pedantic remarks are.  

[StoneTheCrow]

(10-13-2023, 07:04 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I assumed this was the case, hence my not inquiring about it.  I will say that I think the vast majority of it was strident, but collegial, disagreement.  It's obviously going to be a huge topic, maybe the biggest, for a long time from now, so I would ask that it be allowed to reopen sooner rather than later.  But that's clearly your call.

I won't lie though, I was looking forward to a response to my last post in the thread.

I was wondering if my Wee Bae gif was the straw that broke the back.

Just a preposterous stopping point to that whole discussion.

[Dill]

(10-14-2023, 11:41 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I often wonder while frequenting here if you have any idea just how unappealing your pedantic remarks are.  

I wonder that you don't concern yourself more with accurate reading than "appeal." 

Focus on subject matter, not people.