P&R News

[Rotobeast]

If only the "Us vs. Them" paradigm would die a horrible death. Labels and broad generalizations hamstring constructive discussion.

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[GMDino]

(08-23-2023, 05:17 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: If only the "Us vs. Them" paradigm would die a horrible death. Labels and broad generalizations hamstring constructive discussion.

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Eh, you would still have people who simply don't like other people.  They'll always find a "good" reason.

[Rotobeast]

(08-23-2023, 08:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: Eh, you would still have people who simply don't like other people.  They'll always find a "good" reason.

Like if they root for a PA football team or something ?


But yeah... humans are funny like that.

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[Lucidus]

Bengalholic,

I ask that you look at posts 48, 50 and 53 - more might follow - in this the listed thread to get an example of why conversations get sabotaged so often; it's extremely prevalent and getting worse:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Question-For-People-That-Believe-Men-Can-Be-Women?pid=1381691#pid1381691

My post was specifically concerning volleyball, yet examine the responses and I think you'll detect the obvious issue.

Thank for any consideration given.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-26-2023, 05:25 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Bengalholic,

I ask that you look at posts 48, 50 and 53 - more might follow - in this the listed thread to get an example of why conversations get sabotaged so often; it's extremely prevalent and getting worse:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Question-For-People-That-Believe-Men-Can-Be-Women?pid=1381691#pid1381691

My post was specifically concerning volleyball, yet examine the responses and I think you'll detect the obvious issue.

Thank for any consideration given.

Wow, this right here is unbelievable. We're discussing biological men in women's sports, volleyball comes up as an example, so now we must restrict our replies to the sport of volleyball only? Seriously?

[SunsetBengal]

(08-26-2023, 05:25 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Bengalholic,

I ask that you look at posts 48, 50 and 53 - more might follow - in this the listed thread to get an example of why conversations get sabotaged so often; it's extremely prevalent and getting worse:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Question-For-People-That-Believe-Men-Can-Be-Women?pid=1381691#pid1381691

My post was specifically concerning volleyball, yet examine the responses and I think you'll detect the obvious issue.

Thank for any consideration given.

Fail, you have been presented with basic Science as a fair explanation of the superiority of a male born person over a female born person in the competitive arena of athletics.  You are continuing to "move the goalposts" so that you can claim a hollow "victory" based on lack of evidence.

[Lucidus]

(08-26-2023, 05:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Wow, this right here is unbelievable.  We're discussing biological men in women's sports, volleyball comes up as an example, so now we must restrict our replies to the sport of volleyball only?  Seriously?

You were speaking to me specifically; I was speaking about volleyball. So, why place the ideas or positions of other upon me, instead of directly addressing my point. It's a disingenuous approach which you have utilized with me prior, and then later admitted to. It's getting rather burdensome to make a point and then have someone argue things you never stated or lump you in with others so as to strawman you. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-26-2023, 05:48 PM)Lucidus Wrote: You were speaking to me specifically; I was speaking about volleyball. So, why place the ideas or positions of other upon me, instead of directly addressing my point. It's a disingenuous approach which you have utilized with me prior, and then later admitted to. It's getting rather burdensome to make a point and then have someone argue things you never stated or lump you in with others so as to strawman you. 

Yeah, not buying it here.  Sorry, but we're discussing men in women's sports.  You simply mentioning volleyball, as if the topic is restricted to that sport only and then complaining to 'Holic about it here is not the conduct of a person arguing in good faith.  I will now cease discussing that topic with you entirely.

[Lucidus]

(08-26-2023, 05:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Fail, you have been presented with basic Science as a fair explanation of the superiority of a male born person over a female born person in the competitive arena of athletics.  You are continuing to "move the goalposts" so that you can claim a hollow "victory" based on lack of evidence.

You keep speaking of athletics in general, even though I never talked about that; at all. I asked about one specific sport and whether there was scientific evidence pertaining to that sport citing transgender male advantages. 

[SunsetBengal]

(08-26-2023, 05:53 PM)Lucidus Wrote: You keep speaking of athletics in general, even though I never talked about that; at all. I asked about one specific sport and whether there was scientific evidence pertaining to that sport citing transgender male advantages. 

Step outside of the box for a moment, and take a look at what you keep saying.  The conversation has to do with male born athletes competing against female born athletes.  You continue to ignore and refuse any rebuttle that is outside of your continually narrowing specific base of information that you're hoping someone provides a link to.  

In reality, you have been given ample information to argue against, yet you refuse to acknowledge it.  I call win by default of stalling on your part.

[Bengalholic]

(08-26-2023, 05:25 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Bengalholic,

I ask that you look at posts 48, 50 and 53 - more might follow - in this the listed thread to get an example of why conversations get sabotaged so often; it's extremely prevalent and getting worse:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Question-For-People-That-Believe-Men-Can-Be-Women?pid=1381691#pid1381691

My post was specifically concerning volleyball, yet examine the responses and I think you'll detect the obvious issue.

Thank for any consideration given.

As I said earlier in this thread, it's something I'm aware of and monitoring very closely.

[Lucidus]

(08-26-2023, 07:07 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: As I said earlier in this thread, it's something I'm aware of and monitoring very closely.

Thank you for the reply and I'm glad to hear you're monitoring the issue. Unfortunately, as you can see by the responses that followed my message to you, the behavior continues in the very thread where you admonish it. 

I appreciate that you're trying to make this forum better, I'm considering taking an extended break. It has become much to difficult to have honest exchanges and productive conversations. It's gotten to the point where I'm being told I don't understand science, even though I have degrees in biology and psychology, and am a practicing neuropsychologist. Imagine how frustrating it would be to have people telling you that you don't understand message boards or forum administration. It's become exhausting; as it feels like logic and reason are mere nuisances that regularly get drowned out by faulty premises and invalid conclusions. 

My apologies for venting a bit, but I do hope for the best in terms of making this a better place. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

There's a clear plan at work here, I am sad to see it. I guess opposing viewpoints are scary for some. Oh well, que sera sera.

[Bengalholic]

(08-26-2023, 08:53 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: There's a clear plan at work here, I am sad to see it.  I guess opposing viewpoints are scary for some.  Oh well, que sera sera.

What is the 'clear plan'?

[basballguy]

(08-26-2023, 08:37 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Thank you for the reply and I'm glad to hear you're monitoring the issue. Unfortunately, as you can see by the responses that followed my message to you, the behavior continues in the very thread where you admonish it. 

I appreciate that you're trying to make this forum better, I'm considering taking an extended break. It has become much to difficult to have honest exchanges and productive conversations. It's gotten to the point where I'm being told I don't understand science, even though I have degrees in biology and psychology, and am a practicing neuropsychologist. Imagine how frustrating it would be to have people telling you that you don't understand message boards or forum administration. It's become exhausting; as it feels like logic and reason are mere nuisances that regularly get drowned out by faulty premises and invalid conclusions. 

My apologies for venting a bit, but I do hope for the best in terms of making this a better place. 

It sucks....I imagine it's incredibly difficult to moderate condescending behavior versus flagrantly bad behavior.  There are some posters that are A+ at making condescending personal attacks under the guise of "discussion"....

For instance.....

If someone says "you're a tool for thinking that" - you'll get a temp ban....but if they say "That's the stupidest ***** thing I've ever heard in my life" then that seems to fly.  Both have the same condescending context but since the latter uses different words then it seems to fly more frequently. 

But it's not limited to PnR, I see the same shit on JN.  I guess it's just something we have to accept.  

[Bengalholic]

(08-26-2023, 08:37 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Thank you for the reply and I'm glad to hear you're monitoring the issue. Unfortunately, as you can see by the responses that followed my message to you, the behavior continues in the very thread where you admonish it. 

I appreciate that you're trying to make this forum better, I'm considering taking an extended break. It has become much to difficult to have honest exchanges and productive conversations. It's gotten to the point where I'm being told I don't understand science, even though I have degrees in biology and psychology, and am a practicing neuropsychologist. Imagine how frustrating it would be to have people telling you that you don't understand message boards or forum administration. It's become exhausting; as it feels like logic and reason are mere nuisances that regularly get drowned out by faulty premises and invalid conclusions. 

My apologies for venting a bit, but I do hope for the best in terms of making this a better place. 

It's up to you whether you stay or leave. That's your choice.

All I can do is try to figure out a way to improve this place and keep it around...or not.

[Bengalholic]

(08-26-2023, 09:02 PM)basballguy Wrote: It sucks....I imagine it's incredibly difficult to moderate condescending behavior versus flagrantly bad behavior.  There are some posters that are A+ at making condescending personal attacks under the guise of "discussion"....

For instance.....

If someone says "you're a tool for thinking that" - you'll get a temp ban....but if they say "That's the stupidest ***** thing I've ever heard in my life" then that seems to fly.  Both have the same condescending context but since the latter uses different words then it seems to fly more frequently. 

But it's not limited to PnR, I see the same shit on JN.  I guess it's just something we have to accept.  

Moderation is a no-win situation. 

You can literally warn both sides of an argument and each side will swear they're being silenced and you're defending the other side. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-26-2023, 08:59 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: What is the 'clear plan'?.

Not from you, 'Holic.  I'll be as diplomatic as I can.  There are certain people who are sensitive to opposing viewpoints.  From what I perceive, and I acknowledge my perception certainly may not be all encompassing, they tend to attack certain behavior in others that they display themselves.  But, again from what I perceive, the complaints aren't an equal stream.  Bfritz and Luvnit, who I will again state I disagree with more than not, get way more abuse heaped on them than others.  But I don't see them complaining in public to the same degree as others.  

Honestly, I get where you're coming from, you're just trying to run a football website for the team you root for.  I can imagine P&R is way more of a headache than it's worth to you.  It's really a relic from the old site, from a day when people could disagree, often more fervently than we do here, but keep it internal.  But we seem to be in an era where even hearing opposing viewpoints has become borderline intolerable for some.  These are sensitive topics, emotions will flair.  It reminds me of the extreme opposition to negative rep.  Why are some people so concerned with numbers on an internet site?  At the end of the day, this is just the internet.

I guess in the end you'll do what you decide to do, I just don't like the playing the victim card from some here.  Almost everyone here gives as good as they get, yet some feel they end up more injured.  I suppose that's it, at the end of the day, salute.  Emjoy the coming season, it should be fun for bth of us.

[basballguy]

(08-26-2023, 09:07 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Moderation is a no-win situation. 

You can literally warn both sides of an argument and each side will swear they're being silenced and you're defending the other side. 

Oh absolutely.  I have no doubt this is also true.  

I don't envy anyone that has to moderate social media...especially as a hobby in their free time.  I butt heads with a moderator or two but I'm still not about to say I can do it better...because i can't lol.

[basballguy]

(08-26-2023, 09:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:   It reminds me of the extreme opposition to negative rep.  Why are some people so concerned with numbers on an internet site?  At the end of the day, this is just the internet.

LOL, negative rep tilted me so much.  There's a certain member on this board that neg rep'd me (just one time) like 15 years ago and I went on a crusade against him because of it....in hindsight that person was prob right but the concept of negative rep just didn't float with me.