PFF Bengals FA Grade

[Soonerpeace]

CINCINNATI BENGALS: GOOD

Additions:

Franchise tagged: S Jessie Bates III (one year, $12,910,000)
Signed: G Alex Cappa (four years, $40,000,000)
Signed: G Ted Karras (three years, $18,000,000)
Re-signed: B.J. Hill (three years, $30,000,000)
Re-signed: S Michael Thomas (TBD)
Re-signed: QB Brandon Allen (one year, TBD)
Signed: TE Hayden Hurst (one year, TBD)
Re-signed: CB Eli Apple (one year, $4,000,000)
Signed: T La'el Collins (three years, $30,000,000)
Departures:

TE C.J. Uzomah
CB Darius Phillips
From the moment Super Bowl LVI concluded, all discussion centered around the Bengals focused on what they would do to address their porous offensive line this offseason. The team answered the bell right out of the gate once free agency began, signing Cappa and Karras in the first wave of moves. They weren’t done, however, capitalizing on the Dallas Cowboys’ releasing Collins to bring yet another former LSU Tiger up to Cincinnati.

At right guard, Cappa’s 71.4 pass blocking grade in 2021 is almost 20 points higher than any Bengals right guard from 2021. At center, Karras’ 76.9 pass-blocking grade in 2021 is 20 points better than Bengals 2021 center Trey Hopkins, and at right tackle, Collins’ 76.2 pass-blocking grade in 2021 is almost 20 points better than Bengals 2021 right tackle Riley Reiff. Cincinnati made massive improvements from center through right tackle without breaking the bank on any of the three deals.

[SunsetBengal]

It's just affirmation of what we already knew. However, it is nice to see the team getting noticed for making the good moves.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-13-2022, 10:37 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: CINCINNATI BENGALS: GOOD

Additions:

Franchise tagged: S Jessie Bates III (one year, $12,910,000)
Signed: G Alex Cappa (four years, $40,000,000)
Signed: G Ted Karras (three years, $18,000,000)
Re-signed: B.J. Hill (three years, $30,000,000)
Re-signed: S Michael Thomas (TBD)
Re-signed: QB Brandon Allen (one year, TBD)
Signed: TE Hayden Hurst (one year, TBD)
Re-signed: CB Eli Apple (one year, $4,000,000)
Signed: T La'el Collins (three years, $30,000,000)
Departures:

TE C.J. Uzomah
CB Darius Phillips
From the moment Super Bowl LVI concluded, all discussion centered around the Bengals focused on what they would do to address their porous offensive line this offseason. The team answered the bell right out of the gate once free agency began, signing Cappa and Karras in the first wave of moves. They weren’t done, however, capitalizing on the Dallas Cowboys’ releasing Collins to bring yet another former LSU Tiger up to Cincinnati.

At right guard, Cappa’s 71.4 pass blocking grade in 2021 is almost 20 points higher than any Bengals right guard from 2021. At center, Karras’ 76.9 pass-blocking grade in 2021 is 20 points better than Bengals 2021 center Trey Hopkins, and at right tackle, Collins’ 76.2 pass-blocking grade in 2021 is almost 20 points better than Bengals 2021 right tackle Riley Reiff. Cincinnati made massive improvements from center through right tackle without breaking the bank on any of the three deals.

That's hilarious that they used the "20 point higher" score relative to their replacement.  I said the exact same thing when we first signed them weeks ago.  I went so far as to say that a 20 point improvement, for reference, was the difference between Jonah Williams and Bobby Hart.  

Should I sue them for plagiarism?  

[*ochocincos*]

(04-13-2022, 10:37 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: CINCINNATI BENGALS: GOOD

Additions:

Franchise tagged: S Jessie Bates III (one year, $12,910,000)
Signed: G Alex Cappa (four years, $40,000,000)
Signed: G Ted Karras (three years, $18,000,000)
Re-signed: B.J. Hill (three years, $30,000,000)
Re-signed: S Michael Thomas (TBD)
Re-signed: QB Brandon Allen (one year, TBD)
Signed: TE Hayden Hurst (one year, TBD)
Re-signed: CB Eli Apple (one year, $4,000,000)
Signed: T La'el Collins (three years, $30,000,000)
Departures:

TE C.J. Uzomah
CB Darius Phillips
From the moment Super Bowl LVI concluded, all discussion centered around the Bengals focused on what they would do to address their porous offensive line this offseason. The team answered the bell right out of the gate once free agency began, signing Cappa and Karras in the first wave of moves. They weren’t done, however, capitalizing on the Dallas Cowboys’ releasing Collins to bring yet another former LSU Tiger up to Cincinnati.

At right guard, Cappa’s 71.4 pass blocking grade in 2021 is almost 20 points higher than any Bengals right guard from 2021. At center, Karras’ 76.9 pass-blocking grade in 2021 is 20 points better than Bengals 2021 center Trey Hopkins, and at right tackle, Collins’ 76.2 pass-blocking grade in 2021 is almost 20 points better than Bengals 2021 right tackle Riley Reiff. Cincinnati made massive improvements from center through right tackle without breaking the bank on any of the three deals.

As a whole, Bengals have upgraded their team from last year, at least on paper.
Going from Uzomah to Hurst is probably about a push at worst, might be a (slight) upgrade.
Hurst's best season (88 targets, 56 rec, 10.2 YPR, 6 TDs) is just a bit better than Uzomah's (63 targets, 49 rec, 10.1 YPR, 5 TDs).

Collins is an upgrade at RT, even over Reiff.
Cappa is a clear upgrade over anything Bengals put at RG last year.
Karras is likely an upgrade over a fully-healthy Hopkins. At least in the run game.

Other than potential worry about Carman slotting in as starting LG, it's really just about depth and/or future starter replacements heading into the draft. That's a spot Bengals haven't been in since...I can't even remember.

As a whole, I would grade the FA as a B.
A better starting CB and LG would have bumped it to an A for me.

[Luvnit2]

(04-13-2022, 12:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: As a whole, Bengals have upgraded their team from last year, at least on paper.
Going from Uzomah to Hurst is probably about a push at worst, might be a (slight) upgrade.
Hurst's best season (88 targets, 56 rec, 10.2 YPR, 6 TDs) is just a bit better than Uzomah's (63 targets, 49 rec, 10.1 YPR, 5 TDs).

Collins is an upgrade at RT, even over Reiff.
Cappa is a clear upgrade over anything Bengals put at RG last year.
Karras is likely an upgrade over a fully-healthy Hopkins. At least in the run game.

Other than potential worry about Carman slotting in as starting LG, it's really just about depth and/or future starter replacements heading into the draft. That's a spot Bengals haven't been in since...I can't even remember.

As a whole, I would grade the FA as a B.
A better starting CB and LG would have bumped it to an A for me.

Sorry, your expectations make no sense. #1 FA is not done, #2 the draft has not happened and #3 they greatly improved the OL without any major losses to FA.

I think some would moan unless we have above average starters backing up above average starters,

Bengals FO has only so much money to spend, I give them an A+ for spending it wisely for 2022 and anything added via draft or FA will just be a plus.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-13-2022, 01:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Sorry, your expectations make no sense. #1 FA is not done, #2 the draft has not happened and #3 they greatly improved the OL without any major losses to FA.

I think some would moan unless we have above average starters backing up above average starters,

Bengals FO has only so much money to spend, I give them an A+ for spending it wisely for 2022 and anything added via draft or FA will just be a plus.

FA is basically done when it comes to starters, at this point.
Bengals still have $17 mill in cap, so they have/had room to add another impact starter on OL and/or CB.
I also don't think Hurst was much of an upgrade (if at all) to Uzomah. I think there were better TEs available to get.

With that said, I gave a B, not a C or D. B is good (which is same grade PFF gave). B average in college gets you a good job when you graduate (typically).
Not getting an A is ok.

The question wasn't to grade the entire offseason, just FA. So it doesn't really matter if the draft happened or not. FA is what I graded.
And in my opinion (which I stated in the post you responded to), I gave my reason for not giving an A. I'm going to only give an A if I think everything was perfect.
I'm not into the whole + or - part of the grading, so I didn't give it.
If I did, I would have given B+.

[Stewy]

(04-13-2022, 01:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Sorry, your expectations make no sense. #1 FA is not done, #2 the draft has not happened and #3 they greatly improved the OL without any major losses to FA.

I think some would moan unless we have above average starters backing up above average starters,

Bengals FO has only so much money to spend, I give them an A+ for spending it wisely for 2022 and anything added via draft or FA will just be a plus.

I agree.  BleachReport gave us their ONLY A grade for FA.  There were a few A- grades, but the Bengals got the only A.

Giving the Bengals any lower than a B+ is pretty ridiculous.

[fredtoast]

(04-13-2022, 01:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: FA is basically done when it comes to starters, at this point.
Bengals still have $17 mill in cap, so they have/had room to add another impact starter on OL and/or CB.
I also don't think Hurst was much of an upgrade (if at all) to Uzomah. I think there were better TEs available to get.

With that said, I gave a B, not a C or D. B is good (which is same grade PFF gave). B average in college gets you a good job when you graduate (typically).
Not getting an A is ok.

The question wasn't to grade the entire offseason, just FA. So it doesn't really matter if the draft happened or not. FA is what I graded.
And in my opinion (which I stated in the post you responded to), I gave my reason for not giving an A. I'm going to only give an A if I think everything was perfect.
I'm not into the whole + or - part of the grading, so I didn't give it.
If I did, I would have given B+.

What team did get an "A" from you this year?

[*ochocincos*]

(04-13-2022, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What team did get an "A" from you this year?

Haven't looked at other teams.

[The D.O.Z.]

I honestly give us an A. SuperBowl runner-up attacks their biggest weakness in FA wave 1 with real, quality free agents. They got the guys they wanted. They were shrewd and got LC without giving up a draft pick. They retained almost everyone that had a big part of who we were last year. All without overpaying or trading off assets.

Now, if LC goes the way of Cordy Glenn, Alex Cappa impersonates Alex Redmond, and Ted Karras becomes the second coming of Eric Gutsuck…

[Whatever]

(04-13-2022, 01:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: FA is basically done when it comes to starters, at this point.
Bengals still have $17 mill in cap, so they have/had room to add another impact starter on OL and/or CB.
I also don't think Hurst was much of an upgrade (if at all) to Uzomah. I think there were better TEs available to get.

With that said, I gave a B, not a C or D. B is good (which is same grade PFF gave). B average in college gets you a good job when you graduate (typically).
Not getting an A is ok.

The question wasn't to grade the entire offseason, just FA. So it doesn't really matter if the draft happened or not. FA is what I graded.
And in my opinion (which I stated in the post you responded to), I gave my reason for not giving an A. I'm going to only give an A if I think everything was perfect.
I'm not into the whole + or - part of the grading, so I didn't give it.
If I did, I would have given B+.

I think that's fair.  I would give the Bengals an A for all the moves they have made besides tagging Bates, but they do have the cap space to make more moves.  In fairness, there's still a lot of good FA's unsigned and there will be cuts coming after the draft, but to be that close to winning the SB and having that much left unspent is an eyebrow raiser.  

While they succeeded in the  main goal of putting an OL in front of Burrow, they really haven't improved in any other position group, just maintained.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2022, 12:54 PM)Whatever Wrote: I think that's fair.  I would give the Bengals an A for all the moves they have made besides tagging Bates, but they do have the cap space to make more moves.  In fairness, there's still a lot of good FA's unsigned and there will be cuts coming after the draft, but to be that close to winning the SB and having that much left unspent is an eyebrow raiser.  

While they succeeded in the  main goal of putting an OL in front of Burrow, they really haven't improved in any other position group, just maintained.

IDL is arguably worse without Ogunjobi and no other IDL that is actually good at pass rushing. Tupou and Shelvin are run-stuffing NTs. About the only option right now would be to swing Hubbard or Sample inside on passing downs.
OL as a whole is upgraded but LG is a question mark with Carman. I like him more than Smith, Prince, Adeniji, and Hill though.
Other than that, yea maintained.

If LG and outside CB were addressed with someone "better," that would have bumped it up to an A for me, for sure.
Currently banking on Carman and Apple right now, which could be risky.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-13-2022, 12:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: As a whole, Bengals have upgraded their team from last year, at least on paper.
Going from Uzomah to Hurst is probably about a push at worst, might be a (slight) upgrade.
Hurst's best season (88 targets, 56 rec, 10.2 YPR, 6 TDs) is just a bit better than Uzomah's (63 targets, 49 rec, 10.1 YPR, 5 TDs).

Collins is an upgrade at RT, even over Reiff.
Cappa is a clear upgrade over anything Bengals put at RG last year.
Karras is likely an upgrade over a fully-healthy Hopkins. At least in the run game.

Other than potential worry about Carman slotting in as starting LG, it's really just about depth and/or future starter replacements heading into the draft. That's a spot Bengals haven't been in since...I can't even remember.

As a whole, I would grade the FA as a B.
A better starting CB and LG would have bumped it to an A for me.

I think Hurst will have by far his best season in the NFL with Burrow passing him the ball, you just watch.

There is a reason he was a first round pick. Very talented route runner with good hands and goes up for the ball extremely well.

He is so much more talented than Uzo it isn't even funny and I loved Uzo. Uzo is stronger and a bit better of a blocker, thats it.

The Center, RG and RT positions were significantly upgraded and we brought back BJ Hill who is healthy over Larry O who still
might be back, we don't know. Carman played good at LG last season when he was there, he clearly is more comfortable on the 
left side and Pollack and the coaches have been praising him unlike early last season when he came in out of shape.

I give our Free Agency an A this year. I might of added a WR for depth I guess is my only critique.

We can really add to our CB and DT depth in this draft early. Same with OL and WR in the mid rounds.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2022, 03:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think Hurst will have by far his best season in the NFL with Burrow passing him the ball, you just watch.

There is a reason he was a first round pick. Very talented route runner with good hands and goes up for the ball extremely well.

He is so much more talented than Uzo it isn't even funny and I loved Uzo. Uzo is stronger and a bit better of a blocker, thats it.

The Center, RG and RT positions were significantly upgraded and we brought back BJ Hill who is healthy over Larry O who still
might be back, we don't know. Carman played good at LG last season when he was there, he clearly is more comfortable on the 
left side and Pollack and the coaches have been praising him unlike early last season when he came in out of shape.

I give our Free Agency an A this year. I might of added a WR for depth I guess is my only critique.

We can really add to our CB and DT depth in this draft early. Same with OL and WR in the mid rounds.

Not sure I agree with that.

Uzomah is a bit faster than Hurst when it comes to straight line speed.
He's also bigger and longer arms.

Hurst may be a bit shiftier though.

It's hard to say though that Hurst will be some great receiving TE.
He's gotten eclipsed now by two different TEs - Andrews and Pitts.
I think Hurst's ceiling might be in the 600-700 yard range. Good, but not elite.
I think if he's used similar to Uzomah was last year, we'll probably see more in the 500 range.

[Frank Booth]

(04-14-2022, 04:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Not sure I agree with that.

Uzomah is a bit faster than Hurst when it comes to straight line speed.
He's also bigger and longer arms.

Hurst may be a bit shiftier though.

It's hard to say though that Hurst will be some great receiving TE.
He's gotten eclipsed now by two different TEs - Andrews and Pitts.
I think Hurst's ceiling might be in the 600-700 yard range. Good, but not elite.
I think if he's used similar to Uzomah was last year, we'll probably see more in the 500 range.

explain how Uzomah is faster than Hurst

getting eclipsed by two top 5 tight ends is some sort of indictment against Hurst? 

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2022, 04:25 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: explain how Uzomah is faster than Hurst

getting eclipsed by two top 5 tight ends is some sort of indictment against Hurst? 

Combine/Pro Day Results is one way.

Hurst:
40 - 4.67
20 split - 2.71
10 split - 1.63

Uzomah:
40 - 4.64 (4.62 pro day - PD typically a few hundredths faster compared to Combine though)
20 split - 2.65 (pro day)
10 split - 1.58 (pro day)

I don't have any MPH runs on the field during a NFL game though.
So Combine Results is about best I can provide.

As for being an "indictment," yes and no.
It just means Hurst isn't a Top 5 pass-catching TE.
He's probably in the 10-15 range, best case.
That's still above average, it's just not elite.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-14-2022, 04:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Not sure I agree with that.

Uzomah is a bit faster than Hurst when it comes to straight line speed.
He's also bigger and longer arms.

Hurst may be a bit shiftier though.

It's hard to say though that Hurst will be some great receiving TE.
He's gotten eclipsed now by two different TEs - Andrews and Pitts.
I think Hurst's ceiling might be in the 600-700 yard range. Good, but not elite.
I think if he's used similar to Uzomah was last year, we'll probably see more in the 500 range.

Hurst is much shiftier than Uzo no question. Much better route runner and Burrow throws to the open man regardless.

Hurst is much better at getting open than Uzo so I expect around 800 yards and 10 TD's.

My only complaint is it is only a 1 year deal as I doubt we will be able to afford Hurst after this.

(04-14-2022, 04:25 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: explain how Uzomah is faster than Hurst

getting eclipsed by two top 5 tight ends is some sort of indictment against Hurst? 

No doubt, that isn't a bad indictment being second fiddle to 2 of the best young TE's in the NFL.

I think Uzo did have a faster 40 time at the combine but that doesn't mean much to me as Uzo looks slow in the NFL...

Hurst doesn't or at least not as slow as Uzo looks to me.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2022, 04:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hurst is much shiftier than Uzo no question. Much better route runner and Burrow throws to the open man regardless.

Hurst is much better at getting open than Uzo so I expect around 800 yards and 10 TD's.

My only complaint is it is only a 1 year deal as I doubt we will be able to afford Hurst after this.


No doubt, that isn't a bad indictment being second fiddle to 2 of the best young TE's in the NFL.

I think Uzo did have a faster 40 time at the combine but that doesn't mean much to me as Uzo looks slow in the NFL...

Hurst doesn't or at least not as slow as Uzo looks to me.

Hurst's best YPC in any season is 11.6.
If he were to reach 800 yards at 11.6 YPC, that'd be 69 receptions.
His best catch percentage in a season was 84%.
So for Hurst to get 69 receptions, he's going to need 80-85 targets.

You think he's going to get that many targets?

I don't think he will, but maybe he would if he can get open enough and Burrow finds him reliable quickly.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2022, 04:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hurst is much shiftier than Uzo no question. Much better route runner and Burrow throws to the open man regardless.

Hurst is much better at getting open than Uzo so I expect around 800 yards and 10 TD's.

My only complaint is it is only a 1 year deal as I doubt we will be able to afford Hurst after this.


No doubt, that isn't a bad indictment being second fiddle to 2 of the best young TE's in the NFL.

I think Uzo did have a faster 40 time at the combine but that doesn't mean much to me as Uzo looks slow in the NFL...

Hurst doesn't or at least not as slow as Uzo looks to me.

Uzomah is bigger and clunkier.
With Uzomah not being as nimble, he also appears slower.
It'd be ideal if someone had a max MPH that each has ran on the field in the NFL.

[Frank Booth]

(04-14-2022, 04:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Combine/Pro Day Results is one way.

Hurst:
40 - 4.67
20 split - 2.71
10 split - 1.63

Uzomah:
40 - 4.64 (4.62 pro day - PD typically a few hundredths faster compared to Combine though)
20 split - 2.65 (pro day)
10 split - 1.58 (pro day)

I don't have any MPH runs on the field during a NFL game though.
So Combine Results is about best I can provide.

As for being an "indictment," yes and no.
It just means Hurst isn't a Top 5 pass-catching TE.
He's probably in the 10-15 range, best case.
That's still above average, it's just not elite.

so that right there is an improvement over Uzomah in the receiving category. Glad you agree