POTUS UN Speech

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2017, 10:10 AM)Dill Wrote: You were not following SSF's rules.  Hence the insults, accusations and policing which drive discussion off topic and into the personal.

But you were following the argument and striving to stay on topic.  And that ought to be acknowledged.

Bfine made the unsupported claim that Japanese were "quite happy" with Trump.

I put up links marking what Japanese thought of Trump based upon Japanese data from 2016--like using last year's Tokyo phone book
because this year's is not out yet. Sure it's not "current." Some numbers may no longer work. but it is better than NO
phonebook. And can we just assume that every number in the phone book has changed since last year?

SSF does, claiming links from 2016 are no use at all, nor could Japanese editorial opinion count as evidence of Japanese opinion because editorials
"should never be used as 'proof' of anything."  Bels then, in the spirit of social science, reaffirms this currency requirement. 

Neither found fault with Bfine's still wholly unsupported claim.

I added more current links.  Bels added his link about all the Japanese "applause."

And you, understanding what is now required to establish the claim of Japanese satisfaction with Trump, correctly pointed out
that Bels' link was 1) more of a poll of what one Non-Japanese thought with no reference to Japanese evidence, and so 2) it does not establish
Bfine's claim, even if it is about North Korea and recent.  When the issue is Japanese opinion of Trump--perfectly consonant with the topic of the
thread--no one following the argument, or interested in following the argument, would demand you admit a link is more "on topic" simply because it
mentions North Korea or is recent.

At best it appears SSF is ignoring the specific point to which all these links addressed and has substituted the general thread topic as the
criterion for relevance.  

So as the matter stands as of now, all the indicators of Japanese opinion that we have suggest Japanese are not happy
with Trump and offer no reason to suppose that opinion could be easily moved.   And if one is following the argument, that is exactly
where productive discussion ends until someone can provide evidence that Japanese are satisfied with Trump because of some recent
event like his NK speech. 



 

bfine's "wholly unsupported claim" was in response to someone's "wholly unsupported claim" that the rest of the world was laughing at President Trump. I had recently read where Japan was happy that Trump mentioned a 1977 kidnapping of a Japanese citizen.

So somehow the onus fell to me to support a claim to refute a "wholly unsupported claim" (your attempts to "help" by posting a list of articles that occurred even before he was President did absolutely nothing, but show you could not find anything current to support the claim). Yep, that's how it works around here. 

[GMDino]

(09-26-2017, 11:56 AM)bfine32 Wrote: bfine's "wholly unsupported claim" was in response to someone's "wholly unsupported claim" that the rest of the world was laughing at President Trump. I had recently read where Japan was happy that Trump mentioned a 1977 kidnapping of a Japanese citizen.

So somehow the onus fell to me to support a claim to refute a "wholly unsupported claim" (your attempts to "help" by posting a list of articles that occurred even before he was President did absolutely nothing, but show you could not find anything current to support the claim). Yep, that's how it works around here. 

I actually posted two stories from this year (one was a month ago IIRC) that said the general public in Japan didn't care for Trump and the reasons weren't anything that has changed.

Not that it matters what other countries think of us, right?

That would be like people in London caring if NFL players kneeled during "God Save the Queen".  

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2017, 12:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: I actually posted two stories from this year (one was a month ago IIRC) that said the general public in Japan didn't care for Trump and the reasons weren't anything that has changed.

And Actually Matt posted a story from last week (IIRC) that said Japan was happy with him 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-26-2017, 11:56 AM)bfine32 Wrote: bfine's "wholly unsupported claim" was in response to someone's "wholly unsupported claim" that the rest of the world was laughing at President Trump. I had recently read where Japan was happy that Trump mentioned a 1977 kidnapping of a Japanese citizen.

So somehow the onus fell to me to support a claim to refute a "wholly unsupported claim" (your attempts to "help" by posting a list of articles that occurred even before he was President did absolutely nothing, but show you could not find anything current to support the claim). Yep, that's how it works around here. 

That's how Dill rolls.  Anything he thinks is correct and what you think is wrong.  Anyone he cites as a source is a scholar who cannot be impeached, anyone you cite is an unintelligent mouth breather.  His links support his argument, your links do not.  His polls actually mean something, your polls can be dismissed out of hand.  Having an argument of his called inane is an "insult", meanwhile he will denigrate your intelligence with his "thoughtful" commentary.  Dill and GM are the left wing versions of Sloppy and Dabo, so you must approach any "discussion" with them from that perspective.  I've said it many times, I never engage with them in the hopes of having a logical, well reasoned, discourse.  It's simply not possible with them.  I do it for the benefit of others reading these threads. 

We both know that Dill's articles were wholly irrelevant based on both the subject matter and time of their publishing.  We both know that Matt's article was an editorial, and thus merely the opinion of the author.  We also both know that it was still actually on topic and relevant.  Dill ignores it, or denigrates it, for the simple fact that he knows the above to be true but cannot admit it publicly.  

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2017, 12:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's how Dill rolls.  Anything he thinks is correct and what you think is wrong.  Anyone he cites as a source is a scholar who cannot be impeached, anyone you cite is an unintelligent mouth breather.  His links support his argument, your links do not.  His polls actually mean something, your polls can be dismissed out of hand.  Having an argument of his called inane is an "insult", meanwhile he will denigrate your intelligence with his "thoughtful" commentary.  Dill and GM are the left wing versions of Sloppy and Dabo, so you must approach any "discussion" with them from that perspective.  I've said it many times, I never engage with them in the hopes of having a logical, well reasoned, discourse.  It's simply not possible with them.  I do it for the benefit of others reading these threads. 

We both know that Dill's articles were wholly irrelevant based on both the subject matter and time of their publishing.  We both know that Matt's article was an editorial, and thus merely the opinion of the author.  We also both know that it was still actually on topic and relevant.  Dill ignores it, or denigrates it, for the simple fact that he knows the above to be true but cannot admit it publicly.  

It's quite the shame how irrational the election of Donald Trump has made some of the used to be rational posters in this forum.

There are a few that are fighting through their hate for the man and his policies to remain somewhat rational.

[GMDino]

(09-26-2017, 12:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And Actually Matt posted a story from last week (IIRC) that said Japan was happy with him 

Yes...for mentioning that story about the tortured girl?  I remember seeing that.

So we have two stories one gives a general overview of the Japanese and one give a specific reaction to one speech.

Guess we'll call it a tie.

[GMDino]

(09-26-2017, 12:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's how Dill rolls.  Anything he thinks is correct and what you think is wrong.  Anyone he cites as a source is a scholar who cannot be impeached, anyone you cite is an unintelligent mouth breather.  His links support his argument, your links do not.  His polls actually mean something, your polls can be dismissed out of hand.  Having an argument of his called inane is an "insult", meanwhile he will denigrate your intelligence with his "thoughtful" commentary.  Dill and GM are the left wing versions of Sloppy and Dabo, so you must approach any "discussion" with them from that perspective.  I've said it many times, I never engage with them in the hopes of having a logical, well reasoned, discourse.  It's simply not possible with them.  I do it for the benefit of others reading these threads. 

We both know that Dill's articles were wholly irrelevant based on both the subject matter and time of their publishing.  We both know that Matt's article was an editorial, and thus merely the opinion of the author.  We also both know that it was still actually on topic and relevant.  Dill ignores it, or denigrates it, for the simple fact that he knows the above to be true but cannot admit it publicly.  

[Belsnickel]

I find it interesting that there is a defense of the link I posted as relevant, and I'm not involved in it. I posted it just for a different take on the situation. I could find articles going any which way on this. Unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with any of the Japanese polling firms or I would say "let's see if they have anything out there!"

Definitive sources on what the Japanese think of Trump are going to be hard to find.

[Dill]

(09-26-2017, 11:56 AM)bfine32 Wrote: bfine's "wholly unsupported claim" was in response to someone's "wholly unsupported claim" that the rest of the world was laughing at President Trump. I had recently read where Japan was happy that Trump mentioned a 1977 kidnapping of a Japanese citizen.

So somehow the onus fell to me to support a claim to refute a "wholly unsupported claim" (your attempts to "help" by posting a list of articles that occurred even before he was President did absolutely nothing, but show you could not find anything current to support the claim). Yep, that's how it works around here. 

I have no problem with you making your initial claim. There is no rule which requires everyone to support every opinion he offers with links every time he offers one. Not much would get done if that were the case.

However, when a claim is challenged, then there is a choice--support it or not. So yes, the onus "somehow" fell upon you to support your own claim. Citing your memory of an article by a non-Japanese who opined Japanese were happy about the mention of a kidnap victim--and offered no evidence to support the view-- in no way establishes that some sea change in Japanese opinion has occurred.  If it offers no such evidence, then it is not "relevant" to establishing your claim even if it is relevant to other topics, like what Canadians think Japanese think.

But again, it's a free country, and people do not have to support claims if they do not want to.  You're not a bad person if you don't back a claim. It is just an unsupported opinion.  Not illegal.  If one considers such inquiries open ended, then you can jump back in another time if you happen on something you think supports your claim.

The articles I posted at least have the virtue of showing what Japanese think of Trump from Jan 2016 through August of 2017, and their views were based upon Trump's erratic behavior. Has Trump's behavior changed? This is not like citing last year's stock market to make a claim about stock prices today. If one wants to dismiss all that as "not current," one ought to offer at least something which indicates reason for change. If no one can, then there is little reason to suppose there is a change. In the coming week more material will turn up. There will be another Pew poll in a few months.  Neither your posts nor mine have to be regarded as definitive at this point.

[GMDino]

These are the kinds of tweets Trump should stop making.

This is the kind of info that the enemy uses to say the US has declared war on them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trum-north-korea-tillerson_us_59d0fd4de4b06791bb111aa4?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

Quote:Trump Tells Tillerson: Don’t Waste Time Talking To North Korea
The president made his comment, where else, on Twitter.


President Donald Trump said on Twitter on Sunday he has told Secretary of State Rex Tillerson that the diplomat’s efforts to negotiate with North Korea over that country’s nuclear and missile programs are pointless. 

“I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful Secretary of State, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man,” Trump said, referring to North Korea’s Supreme Leader, Kim Jong Un. “Save your energy Rex, we’ll do what has to be done,” Trump added. 

Quote:[/url] Follow
Donald J. Trump 

@realDonaldTrump
I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful Secretary of State, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man...
10:30 AM - Oct 1, 2017

Quote:[url=https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump]Follow
Donald J. Trump 

@realDonaldTrump
Replying to @realDonaldTrump
...Save your energy Rex, we'll do what has to be done!
10:31 AM - Oct 1, 2017

The president’s comments come one day after Tillerson disclosed the United States has direct lines of communications with Pyongyang. 

He is so dumb and so unprepared for his job.  Sad.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Fat left wing logic on this issue;


North Korea defies the entire world and pushes ahead with ballistic missile and nuclear weapon program. Threatens US monthly with nuclear attack for years. North Korea should be ignored by the US, it's all talk.


United States finally responds to North Korean threats with promises of severe retribution if they do not cease their endless provocations. If North Korea now attacks someone it's the fault of the US!

[GMDino]

(10-01-2017, 01:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Fat left wing logic on this issue;


North Korea defies the entire world and pushes ahead with ballistic missile and nuclear weapon program.  Threatens US monthly with nuclear attack for years.  North Korea should be ignored by the US, it's all talk.


United States finally responds to North Korean threats with promises of severe retribution if they do not cease their endless provocations.  If North Korea now attacks someone it's the fault of the US!

okey dokey.

Or it's just Trump's lack of knowledge on how to deal with international affairs and his penchant for telling the world what he's telling his inner circle.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-01-2017, 01:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: okey dokey.

Is this your new version of the inane gif response?  I don't think it's going to catch on. 

Quote:Or it's just Trump's lack of knowledge on how to deal with international affairs and his penchant for telling the world what he's telling his inner circle.

This, not surprisingly, doesn't actually address the point I made.  That point being that, for some, the near endless threats by North Korea of a nuclear attack on the US are not provocation that will lead to armed conflict, but that the US response to those threats is provocation for armed conflict.  There's a severe logical disconnect in this line of thinking.  There must be some factor being omitted from this discourse that would explain that, what could it possibly be?  Things that make you go, hmmmm.

[GMDino]

(10-01-2017, 01:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Is this your new version of the inane gif response?  I don't think it's going to catch on. 

[Belsnickel]

(10-01-2017, 01:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Is this your new version of the inane gif response?  I don't think it's going to catch on. 

He borrowed it from someone else, anyway.

[GMDino]

(10-01-2017, 02:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: He borrowed it from someone else, anyway.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-01-2017, 01:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Fat left wing logic on this issue;


North Korea defies the entire world and pushes ahead with ballistic missile and nuclear weapon program. Threatens US monthly with nuclear attack for years. North Korea should be ignored by the US, it's all talk.


United States finally responds to North Korean threats with promises of severe retribution if they do not cease their endless provocations. If North Korea now attacks someone it's the fault of the US!

Your logic: thinking three words equals pants wetting hysteria.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-01-2017, 04:31 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Your logic: thinking three words equals pants wetting hysteria.

Don't cry Big Bird, just try actually answering the question at hand.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-01-2017, 02:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: He borrowed it from someone else, anyway.

So boring and plagiarism.  An ugly combination.  

[GMDino]

(10-01-2017, 05:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: So boring and plagiarism.  An ugly combination.  

Kept somebody interested enough to post about it twice....