Paris under attack

[*bfine32*]

(11-15-2015, 09:04 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Or person 1 needs to stop waving his nutsack around by advocating as much mindless violence as possible.

I didn't see anyone mention violence (mindless or otherwise) in the example given. I was merely pointing out person 2 seemed kind of wishy washy. 

[GodHatesBengals]

(11-15-2015, 09:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I didn't see anyone mention violence (mindless or otherwise) in the example given. I was merely pointing out person 2 seemed kind of wishy washy. 

It sucks that the reality of the world doesn't accommodate black and white, simplistic thinking very much. 

[*bfine32*]

(11-15-2015, 08:33 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I have no idea why, but you are definitely wrong about that!!!

See. I knew you'd make a great mod for the forum.

[Rotobeast]

(11-15-2015, 08:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Person 2 needs to grow a nut sack

But... Cleese has worn his way through 4 wives.
I'm wagering he has a nut sack.



But as to an answer to the question posed......

Let's bring Jesus back !
That'll fix'em !

 

[GMDino]

(11-15-2015, 08:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Person 2 needs to grow a nut sack

Yes.  Being thoughtful rather than rushing in because "I am right you are wrong" mean the lack of a nutsack.

You're funny.

Solid post.

[Bengalzona]

[Rotobeast]

(11-15-2015, 10:35 PM)Bengalzona Wrote:

[SunsetBengal]

..

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12219484_1508985952734747_2119041848090929771_n.jpg?oh=3f8b473a9c47d00402b70b522a762fc1&oe=56F7C29D

[fredtoast]

(11-15-2015, 07:56 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: So you have no answers whatsoever on how to change the culture of the Middle East and encourage the region to end radical Islam. Thanks for clarifying.

We can't change it.

We can't bomb it out of them.

We can't buy it out of them.

We can't beg it out of them.

Nothing will be settled in the middle east until they separate their religion from their government.  That will be a huge cultural shift.  I believe they will make it someday, but we can't make them.

If we were just not invested so heavily in oil and Israel we could ignore the atrocities like we do in Africa.

[Belsnickel]

So, an interesting thing in all of this. One of the pastors at my church is on vacation with her husband (who is also a pastor) and they are currently in Paris. They went to bed on Friday night and slept through the whole thing. They didn't have their phones turned on, so when they awoke, they woke up to hundreds of emails, voice mails, and Facebook messages checking on them. They had no idea anything was happening, which makes one realize the size of metropolitan areas like Paris.

[Benton]

(11-16-2015, 03:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We can't change it.

We can't bomb it out of them.

We can't buy it out of them.

We can't beg it out of them.

Nothing will be settled in the middle east until they separate their religion from their government.  That will be a huge cultural shift.  I believe they will make it someday, but we can't make them.

If we were just not invested so heavily in oil and Israel we could ignore the atrocities like we do in Africa.

Agreed on all points.

To add, I don't think taking in refugees is going to make that process any easier or quicker. That's not to say I don't think we should take in refugees. But until every country in the Middle East can make this change (secularism), you're going to have the problem. If we just shelter the people who are fed up with it, you're dragging the process out.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-15-2015, 10:53 PM)Rotobeast Wrote:

The sweet sound of "Get some."

[GMDino]

(11-16-2015, 03:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, an interesting thing in all of this. One of the pastors at my church is on vacation with her husband (who is also a pastor) and they are currently in Paris. They went to bed on Friday night and slept through the whole thing. They didn't have their phones turned on, so when they awoke, they woke up to hundreds of emails, voice mails, and Facebook messages checking on them. They had no idea anything was happening, which makes one realize the size of metropolitan areas like Paris.

And the insanity of thinking we can stop it from ever happening in a country of our size...no matter HOW we handle the situation.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Why are we not setting up Camps at their borders, they do not need to be emigrating to other countries. They have their own country. They need to be ready to return to their homes once the problems are dealt with or assist in dealing with them.

[Rotobeast]

(11-17-2015, 02:34 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why are we not setting up Camps at their borders, they do not need to be emigrating to other countries. They have their own country. They need to be ready to return to their homes once the problems are dealt with or assist in dealing with them.

While I am a fan of the idea, it is unlikely they would stay.
There are many interviews where refugees were not satisfied with their housing (in nice solid buildings vs. tents) and even whined that the internet being provided was too slow.
Gratitude is apparently not a strong suit, with many.
But, to be fair, it seems in short supply throughout most cultures anymore.
:snark:

[Benton]

(11-17-2015, 02:34 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why are we not setting up Camps at their borders, they do not need to be emigrating to other countries. They have their own country. They need to be ready to return to their homes once the problems are dealt with or assist in dealing with them.

For some background...

http://www.ushmm.org/confront-genocide/cases/syria

Quote:The Museum has been closely monitoring the conflict in Syria since its outbreak in March 2011. The violence has cost the lives of more than 220,000 Syrians, displaced over half the population, and produced widespread atrocities and crimes against humanity.

The conflict is not simply a civil war between opposing armed forces. What started as a democratic uprising has now become an overtly sectarian conflict in which civilians are targeted for atrocities based upon their religious and ethnic identity. Members of Syria’s Sunni Muslim majority are bearing the brunt of the Syrian government’s massive campaign of crimes against humanity and war crimes, while some of the forces opposing the regime have committed abuses and atrocities against members of Syria’s religious and ethnic minorities.
In addition, the self-proclaimed Islamic State (IS; also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria, or ISIS)—which has been battling both the Syrian and Iraqi regimes as well as some of the Syrian opposition forces since the spring of 2013—is waging a campaign of persecution and horrific brutality against religious communities that do not ascribe to its brand of Islamist extremism.

What you're advocating (setting up camps at the edge of Syria) is basically putting the people being killed in one place really close to military troops, and hoping Assad and IS just leave them alone.

[StLucieBengal]

Taking them in a mistake. Especially when Saudi Arabia takes 0.

They won't be happy here anyway. We live a western life, they do not, let them go where they are comfortable .


If I fled here I would go to a country I was comfortable. Canada, UK, Australia. I wouldn't be forcing my way into anywhere in the Middle East where they obviously live a different life.

[Vas Deferens]

(11-17-2015, 06:55 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If I fled here I would go to a country I was comfortable.   Canada, UK, Australia.  I wouldn't be forcing my way into anywhere in the Middle East where they obviously live a different life.

I sent you some assistance.  Look outside.

[Bengalzona]

(11-17-2015, 02:34 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why are we not setting up Camps at their borders, they do not need to be emigrating to other countries. They have their own country. They need to be ready to return to their homes once the problems are dealt with or assist in dealing with them.

There were camps set-up. On the Syrian side of the border with Turkey. Tent camps. And the people hoped to return to their homes. But this was a problem, as the article Benson posted mentioned: It gave the extremist rebels a convenient grouped-together target out in the open to terrorize. Also, tent camps in the desert are living nightmare after several weeks of several thousand people living close together. Little food, little water, poor sanitation, no organization, crime, disease, no medicine, etc. Think concentration camps, but with tents. These refugees have been living in camps like that for several years now. Their homes are gone. Most of the Syrian cities in the combat zone (and it is a wide combat zone) look like the pictures you see in the history books of Dresden or Berlin in WWII. Also, these are civilians. They generally don't have any weapons, and they wouldn't know what to do with them if they did. ISIL, Assad's troops and the Free Syrian Army are battle-hardened veterans now. They know what they are doing. You put these people out there with guns and tell them to fight ISIL, you might as well just shoot them in the heads yourself.

We finally convinced Turkey (and it was not easy) to let the refugees cross into their border. At least this way, they were somewhat safe from ISIL. ISIL does not want to risk drawing Turkey against them directly. Turkey is a member of NATO and has a modern army. Plus, they are immediately next door and could move directly with short supply lines. For their part, Turkey doesn't want to get involved much because: 1) Syria is a sovereign country and a neighbor. Most other countries in the world still recognize sovereignty, even if we don't. 2) ISIL is actually helping Turkey indirectly by fighting the Kurds and keeping them occupied. While the Kurds are fighting ISIL, there is no talk of starting a Kurdish nation (especially in Turkey's Kurd minority).

So millions of refugees crossed the border into Turkey, where they were immediately placed into... tent camps. Turkey has a modern army, but they are still a poor country. They don't have the resources to take care of this many refugees. And they wouldn't want to even if they did have the resources. The refugees were now safe from ISIL, but they were still stuck in these hellish camps. They can't go home. Turkey won't let them immigrate. If you are in that situation, what is your future (especially if you are female and have children)?

This is where Germany and some other European countries step in. Europe, like many western countries, has been experiencing reduced birthrates for several decades. Their workforce-age population has declined. But their older population has increased. In some countries, they relaxed immigration standards so that foreign workers could come in and fill the workforce, particularly the lower menial type jobs (the jobs we typically want Mexicans and other Latin American illegals to do for us here). A lot of people from former Eastern Bloc countries took advantage of this after the fall of the Soviet Union. When the refugees found out that countries like Germany and Sweden would accept them, they made a beeline for those countries. Unfortunately, there are a dozen or more countries in between that they have to go through to get from Turkey to Germany or Sweden. And those countries are generally not so helpful.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-17-2015, 07:24 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I sent you some assistance.  Look outside.

Sure what country are you going to set me up in?

Since refugees get a choice I will take Australia. I can't do the cold haha