Peaceful Berkley Protests Ruined By Antifa

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Looks like there were thousands total between left and right protestors, and police was checking everyone who came in to make sure they didn't have weapons. Only like one or two instances of guys fighting, otherwise peaceful.... until a couple hundred people wearing black and masks and armor, came in and rushed the police barricades, bypassed the weapons checks, getting in and proceeding to turn the otherwise peaceful event violent.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/live-coverage-violence-at-berkeley-rally-escalates-police-make-arrests/ar-AAqNjtQ?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Looks like the police were doing a pretty good job handling it all and everyone was content to be relatively civil, until they got rushed by a couple hundred Antifa/Anarchists who turned it into a shitshow.

[Vlad]

But, but, ...white supremacy a more serious problem!

Leave Antifa alone!

[Matt_Crimson]

(08-27-2017, 09:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Looks like there were thousands total between left and right protestors, and police was checking everyone who came in to make sure they didn't have weapons. Only like one or two instances of guys fighting, otherwise peaceful.... until a couple hundred people wearing black and masks and armor, came in and rushed the police barricades, bypassed the weapons checks, getting in and proceeding to turn the otherwise peaceful event violent.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/live-coverage-violence-at-berkeley-rally-escalates-police-make-arrests/ar-AAqNjtQ?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Looks like the police were doing a pretty good job handling it all and everyone was content to be relatively civil, until they got rushed by a couple hundred Antifa/Anarchists who turned it into a shitshow.

Wonder if this will be called terrorism. Or perhaps that's only when it's far right groups and when someone dies.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-27-2017, 09:36 PM)Vlad Wrote: But, but, ...white supremacy a more serious problem!

Leave Antifa alone!

Gee wiz. These terrible people. They really should sit down and shut up and let these innocent people spread their message of hate and division. 

Why god why cant they just spread their message of hate in peace??!!?. Makes no sense how unfair life is

[GMDino]

There's just no call for this kind of violent behavior.  None.

They need caught and charged.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-27-2017, 11:21 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Gee wiz. These terrible people. They really should sit down and shut up and let these innocent people spread their message of hate and division. 

Why god why cant they just spread their message of hate in peace??!!?. Makes no sense how unfair life is

That fact that you, who I consider to be a good and intelligent person, can be so wholly wrong on this subject is the best possible evidence for how wise and prescient the founders were when they crafted the Bill of Rights.

[ballsofsteel]

What are those alt right people protesting about, not being replaced by Jews again?
Is Antfia there protesting that the alt right group is protesting about the Jews?
What does the alt right mean about not being replaced?
Too bad Germany didn't have some Antia groups back then in the thirties to combat the Nazi's message of love. Maybe 6 million Jews wouldn't of been slaughtered.

[hollodero]

(08-28-2017, 05:58 AM)ballsofsteel Wrote: What are those alt right people protesting about, not being replaced by Jews again?
Is Antfia there protesting that the alt right group is protesting about the Jews?
What does the alt right mean about not being replaced?
Too bad Germany didn't have some Antia groups back then in the thirties to combat the Nazi's message of love. Maybe 6 million Jews wouldn't of been slaughtered.

But the US isn't Nazi Germany. There's still a rule of law, checks and balances, a constitution in place. These protesters aren't government henchmen.

The Nazi-Antifa equation from the right isn't a rightful argument to me either. But defending violent behaviour in the light of a protest isn't rightful as well. When Antifa members incite violence and beat people up, one should still distance himself from that, or else the behaviour isn't much better than Trump's.

[GMDino]

(08-28-2017, 09:06 AM)hollodero Wrote: But the US isn't Nazi Germany. There's still a rule of law, checks and balances, a constitution in place. These protesters aren't government henchmen.

The Nazi-Antifa equation from the right isn't a rightful argument to me either. But defending violent behaviour in the light of a protest isn't rightful as well. When Antifa members incite violence and beat people up, one should still distance himself from that, or else the behaviour isn't much better than Trump's.

We need counter protests....not vigilantism.  

When the news shows 10,000 protestors and 100 Nazis that is a good sign.  This violence is not.  Although I imagine many don't care as long as it's against Nazis.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-28-2017, 05:58 AM)ballsofsteel Wrote: What are those alt right people protesting about, not being replaced by Jews again?
Is Antfia there protesting that the alt right group is protesting about the Jews?
What does the alt right mean about not being replaced?

Except this wasn't an "alt-right" protest.  You do display the precise problem with groups like antifa, you see anyone who isn't in lockstep with you as the ultimate expression of the enemy.  For you conservative or pro-Trump equals white supremacist or nazi.  

Quote:Too bad Germany didn't have some Antia groups back then in the thirties to combat the Nazi's message of love. Maybe 6 million Jews wouldn't of been slaughtered.

You might want to crack a book or two and read about the street fighting between the SA and the communists during the Weimar Republic.  It wasn't isolated, sporadic or uncommon.

(08-28-2017, 09:06 AM)hollodero Wrote: But the US isn't Nazi Germany. There's still a rule of law, checks and balances, a constitution in place. These protesters aren't government henchmen.

These sort of subtle distinctions are beyond the comprehension of many.  The same people who derided the foaming at the mouth paranoid anti-Obama types have themselevs turned into foaming at the mouth anti-Trump people.  Ironic isn't it?

Quote:The Nazi-Antifa equation from the right isn't a rightful argument to me either. But defending violent behaviour in the light of a protest isn't rightful as well. When Antifa members incite violence and beat people up, one should still distance himself from that, or else the behaviour isn't much better than Trump's.

Trump is hardly an eloquent man, but this is, essentially, what he was trying to say with the "both sides" argument.  Of course he made his point in a ham fisted way at the absolutely worst time.  The media has been been underplaying left wing violence for some time, well over a year.  If you're a more conservative person and you see months worth of violent attacks on peaceful protesters by violent radical-left thugs with little mention in the main stream media and then watch the reaction to the Cville incident you'd be hard pressed not to decry the unfairness of the media coverage.  As culpable as Trump is for creating an atmosphere in which white supremacists feel emboldened, the Dems and the media have done the exact same for antifa.  You don't even have to be right wing to watch Chuck Todd's fluff piece on the organization to come to this conclusion.  Yet another wedge to drive people apart.  Thanks agendas!

[hollodero]

(08-28-2017, 09:35 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: These sort of subtle distinctions are beyond the comprehension of many.  The same people who derided the foaming at the mouth paranoid anti-Obama types have themselevs turned into foaming at the mouth anti-Trump people.  Ironic isn't it?

Yeah... in a sense. Not that it's overly important, but I still disagree here. On the grounds that Trump really isn't Obama, and those foaming over Obama often foamed over things like he's a Kenyan muslim and other pieces of utter misinformation, while those fomaing about Trump are foaming about, well the reality that is Donald Trump. With al these equivalency-arguments I can never forget what Trump did and said and tweeted and how much it disgusts me on levels I think do hold apolitical merit. Whatever.

(08-28-2017, 09:35 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Trump is hardly an eloquent man, but this is, essentially, what he was trying to say with the "both sides" argument.  Of course he made his point in a ham fisted way at the absolutely worst time.

I don't have anything to add to the rest of your post, I am on a similar page there. And I really wanted to avoid getting into that Trump reaction debate.... this is so politicized and it makes me cringe. So there's some chance I won't respond to a counter-point if the ensuing discussions were already had here in length.
Just so you see my problem with Trump's statement [apart from him saying that many goog people marched with the Nazis and supremacist, which is just absurd]. I agree that violence is wrong. I don't agree with taking this statement to the extreme of "equally bad". I do think beating up a marching Nazi who's against everything the constitution of the USA stands for (he's a Nazi, so of course he is) and, not to forget that, is in favour of mass murdering other ethnicities and everything else that comes with Nazism is wrong. It is. What you do is if there are 1000 Nazis marching, you try to get 100.000 people denouncing these efforts and what Nazis stand for. But it's not that kind of bad as said Nazi beating up a bystander or inhabitants (let alone kill one and injure many with his car). I feel seeing it like that is just common sense. There's a time and a place to debate Antifa, it could get more room, but in this case - it leaves me with the taste that they are dragged to the light so "the left" can't get any moral victory out of Nazi marches and Nazi terror attacks by spoken out Trump supporters. Which is playing with fire for political purposes.

We had similar discussions here in my country, and our right-wing, (probably) non-Nazi politicians made similar "yeah of course Nazis are bad, but..."-arguments. In the end, it seems like Nazis and the more extreme right wing base share similar enemies: The "left", the establisment, the media, and of course foreign domination and all that. And the enemy of my enemy a) votes for me and that helps and b) can't be my total enemy. But they are Nazis, so there's that; you can't and probably wouldn't want to defend them (I do not think Trump is a Nazi). And the solution to that conundrum, and what I feel Trump tries to do, seems to be to drag all kinds of other groups down to Nazi level. What about Antifa, what about radical Islam. Which quickly gets what about the left, what about muslims. Whataboutism at its finest, and it comes across as defending Nazis - by claiming, there are "Nazis" everywhere, the whole world is bad. It's kind of an "Putin might be a murderer, but so are many, and so were we, so what gives and who can throw a stone"-moment. This isn't helpful or uniting though. And it's also misleading. David Duke was happily misled by Trump's words, and that never is a good sign.

If Trump wants to speak Antifa, fine, mention and denounce them. But giving Antifa violence the same room (or time) as Nazi violence and terror, you're getting out the wrong message. Which, again, is a common sense argument, principled on morale and not on the words of your constitution. In the end, Trump spooked me a little there, and with reason I consider to be good.

[Vlad]

(08-28-2017, 10:17 AM)hollodero Wrote: If Trump wants to speak Antifa, fine, mention and denounce them. But giving Antifa violence the same room (or time) as Nazi violence and terror, you're getting out the wrong message. Which, again, is a common sense argument, principled on morale and not on the words of your constitution. In the end, Trump spooked me a little there, and with reason I consider to be good.

 What cases of Nazi violence and terror are you referring to?

[hollodero]

(08-28-2017, 10:32 AM)Vlad Wrote:  What cases of Nazi violence and terror are you referring to?

Charlottesville. With Berkley, I don't know about the background. The only thing I know is that the Antifa behaviour there was wrong.

As for Charlottesville. That driving a car into a crowd is a form of terrorism is so clear-cut, I wouldn't even debate that. As for the violence, have you read Belsnickel's accounts on that. If you haven't, there are many others around. This wasn't an entirely peaceful march to begin with. Never mind the evil mindset of Nazis.

[Vlad]

(08-28-2017, 10:42 AM)hollodero Wrote: Charlottesville. With Berkley, I don't know about the background. The only thing I know is that the Antifa behaviour there was wrong.

As for Charlottesville. That driving a car into a crowd is a form of terrorism is so clear-cut, I wouldn't even debate that. As for the violence, have you read Belsnickel's accounts on that. If you haven't, there are many others around. This wasn't an entirely peaceful march to begin with. Never mind the evil mindset of Nazis.

Indeed it was.  Appears as a fit of rage provoked by leftists in the midst of disrupting a protest.

What I was alluding to are the pre planned acts of violence and terror like those committed by Antifa and Islamists.

Let these demonstrators blather about their white supremacy. They are harmless. The only thing they hurt are feelings...too bad cause we all know now what happens when the feelings of a lefty get hurt.

[Benton]

(08-28-2017, 11:15 AM)Vlad Wrote: Indeed it was.  Appears as a fit of rage provoked by leftists in the midst of disrupting a protest.

What I was alluding to are the pre planned acts of violence and terror like those committed by Antifa and Islamists.

You just tried to justify a homicidal act of terrorism.

[GMDino]

(08-28-2017, 11:29 AM)Benton Wrote: You just tried to justify a homicidal act of terrorism.

But not because of religion, so....

[hollodero]

(08-28-2017, 11:15 AM)Vlad Wrote: Indeed it was.  Appears as a fit of rage provoked by leftists in the midst of disrupting a protest.

What I was alluding to are the pre planned acts of violence and terror like those committed by Antifa and Islamists.

Let these demonstrators blather about their white supremacy. They are harmless. The only thing they hurt are feelings...too bad cause  we all know now what happens when the feelings of a lefty get hurt.

Well. You behave 1:1 as I described it. You really are an ideologist only, no reasoning needed. A meaningful debate with someone like that is impossible. I'd rather urge others who might feel sympathetic to Trump's stance on all that to take a hard look at what you just said and what thinly veiled emotions are carrying those sentiments.

I don't even get into that phony "lefty" mocking that is so uncalled for it really hurts my brains. I just focus on the fact that you actually found a way to lay a big part of the blame for the heineous act of a Nazi on leftists. Bravo, you really switched off all reason to be partisan.

The rest is silence. Picture me stunned.

[Belsnickel]

(08-28-2017, 11:29 AM)Benton Wrote: You just tried to justify a homicidal act of terrorism.

With a false statement, at that. The racist gathering was broken up and declared unlawful hours before he drove that car into the group. He is disseminating fake news.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-28-2017, 12:58 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That fact that you, who I consider to be a good and intelligent person, can be so wholly wrong on this subject is the best possible evidence for how wise and prescient the founders were when they crafted the Bill of Rights.

Im not saying what they did was legal. 

But when you are out being an asshole... Shit happens. 

You can be perfectly legal sitting in a bar drinking and decide you want to call someones girl a fat ugly skank. When you get punched in the mouth i will have no pity.

[Vlad]

(08-28-2017, 11:29 AM)Benton Wrote: You just tried to justify a homicidal act of terrorism.

Geezus there you folks go again letting feelings get in the way of reason. 
No I did not "justify a homicidal act of terrorism".

Let me ask you....What was OJ Simpsons motive for stabbing Nichole and Ron Goldman?

Whatever your answer happens to be, you are by your own logic justifying a homicide.