Peaceful Berkley Protests Ruined By Antifa

[Belsnickel]

(08-29-2017, 11:15 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The protesters we discuss here are antifa and leftists.

Classic liberals are not out there protesting. They are trying to move forward like the rest of us and see what can be done for the country under Trump. Like conservatives did when obama was elected.

Yes, classic liberals are out there protesting. They may not be the ones getting violent, but there are a lot of them out there protesting. There were tons of conservatives that also protested Obama. You are conflating protesting and getting violent, and the two are not the same.

[Belsnickel]

(08-28-2017, 10:02 PM)Vlad Wrote: Wow, it's 8:57 and no one has played their "you're defending white supremacy" card.

Aww, someone is projecting.

[Belsnickel]

(08-29-2017, 10:45 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The overuse of Nazi on this board is getting to ridiculous levels. It's not quite to the level of calling everyone a racist/sexist/etc that plenty get into the habit when they can not come with anything to continue a debate or discussion.

There isn't any Nazi's here posting: The more you use that label to describe just good decent normal posters or their political leanings the more you take away from the true meaning of that word.

Nazi should be taken seriously but it won't be when you call everyone a Nazi who has a conservative or even moderate view on common sense issues.

I am certain this will be reported in hopes I am suspended. Which would be a Nazi type move to get rid of anyone who doesn't think like you.

I'm trying to recall posters being called Nazis on here and can't recall it. I can think of people saying others were defending Nazis, or that they were sympathizers, but not being called Nazis themselves.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-29-2017, 02:58 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yes, classic liberals are out there protesting. They may not be the ones getting violent, but there are a lot of them out there protesting. There were tons of conservatives that also protested Obama. You are conflating protesting and getting violent, and the two are not the same.

When we discuss antifa and leftists they are the violent ones. The ones who are anti America, anti capitalism, and anti freedom.

I use leftist rather than liberal for a reason. Just as I use progressive instead of liberal. They are not the same.

Trump mentions there were some good people on both sides of the VA protest. He gets slammed because it's supposedly not possible..... now you are saying the same thing.

Conservatives protested obama and didn't get violent.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-29-2017, 03:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm trying to recall posters being called Nazis on here and can't recall it. I can think of people saying others were defending Nazis, or that they were sympathizers, but not being called Nazis themselves.

Nazi/Nazi sympathizer is the same thing. Also I am pretty sure I was called a Nazi. If I had any interest at all I would look it up.

[Belsnickel]

(08-29-2017, 03:50 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When we discuss antifa and leftists they are the violent ones. The ones who are anti America, anti capitalism, and anti freedom.

Then why did you say classic liberals weren't protesting? That is a false statement. Also, you make a lot of assumptions about the people that are getting violent.

(08-29-2017, 03:51 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I use leftist rather than liberal for a reason. Just as I use progressive instead of liberal. They are not the same.

Indeed, they are not the same. However, it has been demonstrated that there is a large amount of ignorance on these boards with regards to all of these terms and movements that have occurred in our history and how the terms relate to current political groups and your usage of those terms and the way you have described some of these groups falls into that, as well. It's not an attack to say this, so hopefully it won't be taken as such, but there are a lot of misrepresentations of ideologies from a lot of posters on here, yourself included, and from both the right and the left side of the spectrum.

I would only say that we should be more cautious in our application of labels to groups when they actually may not apply. This is something all of us are guilty of, myself included when my emotions were higher than usual during the Charlottesville incident.

(08-29-2017, 03:51 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Trump mentions there were some good people on both sides of the VA protest. He gets slammed because it's supposedly not possible..... now you are saying the same thing.

I don't think there were good people on both sides. I don't consider racists, white nationalists, neo-Confederates, Nazis, white supremacists, etc., to be good people. Whether or not they got violent, I don't consider them to be good people.

(08-29-2017, 03:51 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Conservatives protested obama and didn't get violent.

There were many instances of anti-Obama violence that occurred against his supporters. Don't kid yourself on this one. This is absolutely an escalation, but it isn't out of nowhere. This has been a ramp-up, not a climb up a steep rock face.

(08-29-2017, 03:51 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Nazi/Nazi sympathizer is the same thing. Also I am pretty sure I was called a Nazi. If I had any interest at all I would look it up.

Not the same thing. One is a Nazi, the other is sympathetic to them in some way.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-29-2017, 04:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Then why did you say classic liberals weren't protesting? That is a false statement. Also, you make a lot of assumptions about the people that are getting violent.


Indeed, they are not the same. However, it has been demonstrated that there is a large amount of ignorance on these boards with regards to all of these terms and movements that have occurred in our history and how the terms relate to current political groups and your usage of those terms and the way you have described some of these groups falls into that, as well. It's not an attack to say this, so hopefully it won't be taken as such, but there are a lot of misrepresentations of ideologies from a lot of posters on here, yourself included, and from both the right and the left side of the spectrum.

I would only say that we should be more cautious in our application of labels to groups when they actually may not apply. This is something all of us are guilty of, myself included when my emotions were higher than usual during the Charlottesville incident.


I don't think there were good people on both sides. I don't consider racists, white nationalists, neo-Confederates, Nazis, white supremacists, etc., to be good people. Whether or not they got violent, I don't consider them to be good people.


There were many instances of anti-Obama violence that occurred against his supporters. Don't kid yourself on this one. This is absolutely an escalation, but it isn't out of nowhere. This has been a ramp-up, not a climb up a steep rock face.


Not the same thing. One is a Nazi, the other is sympathetic to them in some way.

1. Never said that.... we were speaking about violent protestors. Peaceful protesting is irrelevant when we are discussing the violence at a protest.

2. If you think I am describing these terms incorrectly then feel free to straighten me out.

3. So there was no one there who just respects historical monuments or enjoys free speech? The act like the only good people there were on protestor side is disengenuous.

4. Post some anti obama violence that is in the same realm as antifa

5. You better educate your fellow leftist posters on that fact. And defending someone's right to say dumb things doesn't make you a Nazi sympathizer.

[Belsnickel]

(08-29-2017, 05:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 1. Never said that.... we were speaking about violent protestors. Peaceful protesting is irrelevant when we are discussing the violence at a protest.

You definitely said it, it's in the post I quoted at the top of this page. If you would like to say they aren't the ones getting violent, I may be more inclined to agree, but still wouldn't completely. Because of all that classic liberalism encompasses there could be classic liberals on both the left and the right getting violent.

(08-29-2017, 05:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 2. If you think I am describing these terms incorrectly then feel free to straighten me out.

I've attempted to educate when it comes to certain terms around here in the past, but it is often ignored. The more nuanced understandings of these terms can be understood by reading Wikipedia or some partisan blog, and even getting into it on the board here won't do too much good. This is why I just say caution should be used when using these terms.

(08-29-2017, 05:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 3. So there was no one there who just respects historical monuments or enjoys free speech? The act like the only good people there were on protestor side is disengenuous.

In all seriousness, if there were they were carpetbaggers. I know a lot of people that are in favor of keeping those statues around, including those at the forefront of the group trying to keep the city from removing them, for historical reasons. They wanted nothing to do with Kessler's rally, they advised all of their group to stay away and stay away they did. They knew what was going on from the start and they avoided any involvement with it. I admit, I'm painting the crowd with a broad brush, but almost all of that crowd were outsiders there from various racist organizations.

(08-29-2017, 05:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 4. Post some anti obama violence that is in the same realm as antifa

Apparently you did not read my statement in full.

(08-29-2017, 05:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 5. You better educate your fellow leftist posters on that fact. And defending someone's right to say dumb things doesn't make you a Nazi sympathizer.

No one's right to say dumb things was being impugned. A citizen cannot strip someone of their right to say dumb things, only the government can do that. If someone gets shouted down, harassed, etc., for that, then that is absolutely legal. If someone is physically assaulted for it, then that is wrong.

Now, what I have seen people be called sympathizers for is victim blaming the people that were run into by a domestic terrorist in Charlottesville. There may have been other instances, but that has been the most common.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-29-2017, 06:30 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You definitely said it, it's in the post I quoted at the top of this page. If you would like to say they aren't the ones getting violent, I may be more inclined to agree, but still wouldn't completely. Because of all that classic liberalism encompasses there could be classic liberals on both the left and the right getting violent.


I've attempted to educate when it comes to certain terms around here in the past, but it is often ignored. The more nuanced understandings of these terms can be understood by reading Wikipedia or some partisan blog, and even getting into it on the board here won't do too much good. This is why I just say caution should be used when using these terms.


In all seriousness, if there were they were carpetbaggers. I know a lot of people that are in favor of keeping those statues around, including those at the forefront of the group trying to keep the city from removing them, for historical reasons. They wanted nothing to do with Kessler's rally, they advised all of their group to stay away and stay away they did. They knew what was going on from the start and they avoided any involvement with it. I admit, I'm painting the crowd with a broad brush, but almost all of that crowd were outsiders there from various racist organizations.


Apparently you did not read my statement in full.


No one's right to say dumb things was being impugned. A citizen cannot strip someone of their right to say dumb things, only the government can do that. If someone gets shouted down, harassed, etc., for that, then that is absolutely legal. If someone is physically assaulted for it, then that is wrong.

Now, what I have seen people be called sympathizers for is victim blaming the people that were run into by a domestic terrorist in Charlottesville. There may have been other instances, but that has been the most common.

1. I was speaking about the violent people protesting. Which has been on the forefront of almost every thread on the board lately.

2. No you have attempted to twist these terms to suit your beliefs. We both are not going have the same ideas about progressives/socialists/communists/etc. you will always romance these groups where I have no problem calling them for what they are....

I remember asking you about pronouns for people and you sent me a link with a list of about 70 terms. One being something called two spirit. You sent me a list of 70+ that could have been three. He, she, or he/she.

3. Carpetbaggers? How about just Americans who value history.

4. So let me know about this anti obama violence. The only ones being violent during the obama years were BLM. And that was at the blessing of obama.

5. When antifa takes to violence they take away someone's rights.

[Belsnickel]

(08-29-2017, 06:52 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 1. I was speaking about the violent people protesting. Which has been on the forefront of almost every thread on the board lately.

Clarity is all I ask for.

(08-29-2017, 06:52 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 2. No you have attempted to twist these terms to suit your beliefs. We both are not going have the same ideas about progressives/socialists/communists/etc. you will always romance these groups where I have no problem calling them for what they are....

I don't romance anything with them. I purposely use academic definitions of terms because it doesn't introduce my personal bias into them. The way you present these terms is often heavily biased with your own opinions and is rooted in a much more subjective point of view rather than a more detached, objective viewpoint. It is not my fault that what you seem to have been fed regarding what these groups are may not be an accurate representation.

(08-29-2017, 06:52 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I remember asking you about pronouns for people and you sent me a link with a list of about 70 terms. One being something called two spirit. You sent me a list of 70+ that could have been three. He, she, or he/she.

Not sure what this has to do with the earlier part. That list wasn't pronouns, it was a list of gender identities and sexual preferences. You asked for information on it, and it was provided. Again, though, that really has no bearing on this conversation.

(08-29-2017, 06:52 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 3. Carpetbaggers? How about just Americans who value history.

They are carpetbaggers because if they were actually there about the Lee statue, then they coming from outside to try to impose their will on a local community. The decision should be left to the local community.

(08-29-2017, 06:52 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 4. So let me know about this anti obama violence. The only ones being violent during the obama years were BLM. And that was at the blessing of obama.

A simple Google search will turn up quite a few examples. Feel free to do some searching if you'd like, but I can say for certain that within weeks of Obama's election there were numerous attacks against his supporters.

(08-29-2017, 06:52 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 5. When antifa takes to violence they take away someone's rights.

In what way? Not disagreeing or agreeing with this statement, I'd just like to see your argument for this.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-29-2017, 12:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'd prefer it just be acknowledged the first time. 

It was.

[StLucieBengal]

http://www.democraticleader.gov/newsroom/82917/


Good job Nancy Pelosi. It's nice to see you have finally had enough with these domestic terrorists .

Quote:Pelosi Statement Condemning Antifa Violence in Berkeley

San Francisco — Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi released the following statement denouncing the violent protests carried out this weekend in Berkeley, California:

“Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts. The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.

“In California, as across all of our great nation, we have deep reverence for the Constitutional right to peaceful dissent and free speech. Non-violence is fundamental to that right. Let us use this sad event to reaffirm that we must never fight hate with hate, and to remember the values of peace, openness and justice that represent the best of America.”

[Millhouse]

Id like to see a bunch of ex navy seals and other ex special forces guys hold a rally incognito somewhere. And when antifa shows up and start to get violent, there will be a big can of whoop ass unleashed on them.

I mean I know it would be wrong and all, but sometimes people like those in antifa just need to get the living crap kicked out of them.

But in reality what needs to happen is to have a similar right leaning rally somewhere knowing they will show up. Then have a ton of police on standby nearby with swat and go in and arrest as many as they can.

[GMDino]

Wish Trump spoke so well against white supremacists and Nazis.

[Vlad]

“In California, as across all of our great nation, we have deep reverence for the Constitutional right to peaceful dissent and free speech. Non-violence is fundamental to that right. Let us use this sad event to reaffirm that we must never fight hate with hate, and to remember the values of peace, openness and justice that represent the best of America"

OMG  even Nancy is defending white supremacy!

Same sentiments as Trump, now lets hear the left wingnut establishment admonish her.
Anytime now. 

[Vlad]

(08-29-2017, 11:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: Wish Trump spoke so well against white supremacists and Nazis.

To Antifa and to most folks on your side the peaceful protesters in Berkely were white supremacists and Nazis

[StLucieBengal]

(08-29-2017, 11:44 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Id like to see a bunch of ex navy seals and other ex special forces guys hold a rally incognito somewhere. And when antifa shows up and start to get violent, there will be a big can of whoop ass unleashed on them.

I mean I know it would be wrong and all, but sometimes people like those in antifa just need to get the living crap kicked out of them.

But in reality what needs to happen is to have a similar right leaning rally somewhere knowing they will show up. Then have a ton of police on standby nearby with swat and go in and arrest as many as they can.

Boston police whipped on them.

The reason we have antifa is because none of those kids have gotten their tails whipped. They grew up in everyone gets a trophy mentality. This is why children need picked on so they stop the dumb behavior before it starts.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-29-2017, 11:45 PM)Vlad Wrote: “In California, as across all of our great nation, we have deep reverence for the Constitutional right to peaceful dissent and free speech. Non-violence is fundamental to that right. Let us use this sad event to reaffirm that we must never fight hate with hate, and to remember the values of peace, openness and justice that represent the best of America"

OMG  even Nancy is defending white supremacy!

Same sentiments as Trump, now lets hear the left wingnut establishment admonish her.
Anytime now. 

When Nancy Pelosi finally comes over to our side you know Antifa is of the rails. Yet there are those here who still defend them.

Let it sink in.... Nancy Pelosi, StLucieBengal, and Vlad all stand on the same side. Hahahaha

[StLucieBengal]

(08-29-2017, 07:02 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Clarity is all I ask for.



I don't romance anything with them. I purposely use academic definitions of terms because it doesn't introduce my personal bias into them. The way you present these terms is often heavily biased with your own opinions and is rooted in a much more subjective point of view rather than a more detached, objective viewpoint. It is not my fault that what you seem to have been fed regarding what these groups are may not be an accurate representation.


Not sure what this has to do with the earlier part. That list wasn't pronouns, it was a list of gender identities and sexual preferences. You asked for information on it, and it was provided. Again, though, that really has no bearing on this conversation.


They are carpetbaggers because if they were actually there about the Lee statue, then they coming from outside to try to impose their will on a local community. The decision should be left to the local community.


A simple Google search will turn up quite a few examples. Feel free to do some searching if you'd like, but I can say for certain that within weeks of Obama's election there were numerous attacks against his supporters.


In what way? Not disagreeing or agreeing with this statement, I'd just like to see your argument for this.

2. Maybe you haven't romanced them but quite a few have here.

3. That is just an example of terminology overload when it takes a simple response. That's my point

4. If it's local land then yes. But if the statue is removed it should be taken to a museum and preserved.

5. I found nothing

6. American peacefully having a rally. Antifa comes by and violently attacks them with weapons. Tossing urine and feces on them. Forcing them to flee. It's the mob mentality. It's at the core of taking away someone's ability to have free speech.

[Vas Deferens]

Some kick ballers are trying so hard to distance themselves from rascist Neil nazis they are taking pelosis comments and pretending they haven't called for her head in the past. Who the bleep around here do they think are taking the side of Antifa? If they think the counter protests in Berkeley were completely comprised of antifa, they're showing their head is still fully encompassed by their posterior.

#bandoliersandtraingingwheels #LowTHighGates