Pence Staged Exit.

[GMDino]

(10-10-2017, 06:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I should have said petty words/actions. Thanks for proof reading.

As to the context of your message. I have never said I'm offended/mad and definitely not because because someone told me I should be. I have said that they are disrespecting the flag and their reasoning is to not show respect to the Flag and the Nation for which it stands. They most likely do not mean to disrespect the Military; however, that does not mean they are not. Intent usually doesn't absolve you unless you are Hillary Clinton on a private server.   

Right.

Two pages of trying to twist enough words to make make someone agree that something is disrespect but it didn't offend you or make you mad.

For the record:  It has nothing to do with intent when they have explained it...repeatedly.  Unless someone is letting " other people's actions/words shape your sensibilities" to the point that it takes two pages and multiple days to reach a "point".

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2017, 08:43 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Opinions about something subjective can't be wrong. When people state opinions about facts, those can be wrong, but something that is subjective isn't an either/or situation, it isn't right or wrong. That is what makes it subjective. The reason people have wrong opinions all of the time is because people like to state opinions as facts, which they are not.


Even if you apply a reasonable person standard, this does not negate the subjectivity of the situation. You can say that "based upon the reasonable person standard, it is disrespectful to not stand for the flag and national anthem of your country" and I would tend to agree with you. However, that still does not make it a fact that it is disrespectful overall. You're still trying to apply objective terms to a subjective situation, which is illogical.

Everything in the world can be subjective (based on personal feelings), until it no longer is. If a law is passed (or let's just say an employers mandate) that states failing to stand for the flag while the Anthem is played is disrespectful is your "opinion" on the matter still "subjective"?

There is already a directive that states NFL players should stand and place their hand over their heart when the Anthem is played. Am I disrespecting my employer for failing to do so?   

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2017, 08:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: Right.

Two pages of trying to twist enough words to make make someone agree that something is disrespect but it didn't offend you or make you mad.

For the record:  It has nothing to do with intent when they have explained it...repeatedly.  Unless someone is letting " other people's actions/words shape your sensibilities" to the point that it takes two pages and multiple days to reach a "point".

Is there actually anyone left in this forum that gives any weight to your non-constructive, pointless, posts?

You spend countless hours in this forum doing nothing more than trying to play gotcha and more often that not failing at it miserably as you have done here. 

Why you are given free reign in this forum to do nothing more than post pointless memes and try to contradict those you disagree with is beyond me. Of course it was also beyond me when I got a 4 month suspension for inquiring publically on such matters.

Maybe......

[Belsnickel]

(10-10-2017, 09:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Everything in the world can be subjective (based on personal feelings), until it no longer is. If a law is passed (or let's just say an employers mandate) that states failing to stand for the flag while the Anthem is played is disrespectful is your "opinion" on the matter still "subjective"?

There is already a directive that states NFL players should stand and place their hand over their heart when the Anthem is played. Am I disrespecting my employer for failing to do so?   

Yes, your opinion on the matter is still subjective, even with the law. The objective (factual) statement for that would be "according to the law, it is disrespectful to not stand for the flag while the anthem is playing." It does not change the subjectivity of one's personal opinions just because the law states it as such. I don't consider it disrespectful to use an American flag paper plate or to print the flag on a box, but according to the US Flag Code, it is. So objectively, according to the law of the country, it is disrespectful to do so. My subjective opinion is that it is not. Just because an authority presents an opinion does not change the fact that it is an opinion, and opinions are subjective by their nature.

For the last bit, that is still subjective. Therefore, it depends.

My employer says that I should bike or walk to work instead of driving, but I'm a fatass and prefer to drive because at the end of the day I am too tired to walk home even though I live close enough where walking to work would be no issue. They said I should do something, but I'm not. Am I disrespecting them?

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2017, 09:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yes, your opinion on the matter is still subjective, even with the law. The objective (factual) statement for that would be "according to the law, it is disrespectful to not stand for the flag while the anthem is playing." It does not change the subjectivity of one's personal opinions just because the law states it as such. I don't consider it disrespectful to use an American flag paper plate or to print the flag on a box, but according to the US Flag Code, it is. So objectively, according to the law of the country, it is disrespectful to do so. My subjective opinion is not.

For the last bit, that is still subjective. Therefore, it depends.

My employer says that I should bike or walk to work instead of driving, but I'm a fatass and prefer to drive because at the end of the day I am too tired to walk home even though I live close enough where walking to work would be no issue. They said I should do something, but I'm not. Am I disrespecting them?

If you say that opinions cannot be wrong if they are counter to law/mandate; I'll take you at your word. 

As to your last:  Yes, you are failing to respect the wishes of your employer. You may not intend to; however, it does not change the fact that you are disrespecting their wishes. 

[GMDino]

(10-10-2017, 09:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Is there actually anyone left in this forum that gives any weight to your non-constructive, pointless, posts?

3...2...1....

(10-10-2017, 09:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You spend countless hours in this forum doing nothing more than trying to play gotcha and more often that not failing at it miserably as you have done here. 

Why you are given free reign in this forum to do nothing more than post pointless memes and try to contradict those you disagree with is beyond me. Of course it was also beyond me when I got a 4 month suspension for inquiring publically on such matters.

Maybe......

It's quite possible you answered your own question.

Nonetheless my post was on the topic of the thread and someone claiming that they were not offended/mad for two plus pages.

[Belsnickel]

(10-10-2017, 09:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If you say that opinions cannot be wrong if they are counter to law/mandate; I'll take you at your word. 

As to your last:  Yes, you are failing to respect the wishes of your employer. You may not intend to; however, it does not change the fact that you are disrespecting their wishes. 

It's the nature of the word opinion. It may run counter to law/mandate or social norms, but it doesn't make it wrong.

Also, that's your opinion, man.

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2017, 09:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's the nature of the word opinion. It may run counter to law/mandate or social norms, but it doesn't make it wrong.

Also, that's your opinion, man.

Okey Dokey, An opinion cannot be wrong if it is counter to law. 

I'll have to keep that in mind. 

[Belsnickel]

(10-10-2017, 09:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Okey Dokey, An opinion cannot be wrong if it is counter to law. 

I'll have to keep that in mind. 

Indeed, because your opinion can't be wrong in that situation. Doesn't change the fact of the law stating what it states, but just because the authority of the law states one thing does not mean it is wrong to have an opinion counter to that. It would be wrong to say that the law does not apply because of one's opinion, or that the law is wrong. The law is the law., but you can have a contrary opinion of it.

This is how unjust laws are changed, because people have opinions that run counter to the laws. We've seen it throughout the history of the world and this country. We've seen it within the past ten years. If something being law made your contrary opinion immediately wrong, women and minorities wouldn't have the right to vote, it would be illegal to educate black people, slavery would still exist even. Laws are also subjective, but they are codified based upon societal norms and expectations. This is why they can be changed over time based upon the evolving opinions of the day. You can disagree with them and not be wrong, but you still have to follow them for an orderly society to exist.

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2017, 09:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Indeed, because your opinion can't be wrong in that situation. Doesn't change the fact of the law stating what it states, but just because the authority of the law states one thing does not mean it is wrong to have an opinion counter to that. It would be wrong to say that the law does not apply because of one's opinion, or that the law is wrong. The law is the law., but you can have a contrary opinion of it.

This is how unjust laws are changed, because people have opinions that run counter to the laws. We've seen it throughout the history of the world and this country. We've seen it within the past ten years. If something being law made your contrary opinion immediately wrong, women and minorities wouldn't have the right to vote, it would be illegal to educate black people, slavery would still exist even. Laws are also subjective, but they are codified based upon societal norms and expectations. This is why they can be changed over time based upon the evolving opinions of the day. You can disagree with them and not be wrong, but you still have to follow them for an orderly society to exist.

As I said: I'll take you at your word when you say an opinion cannot be wrong. No need to double down on it.

[Belsnickel]

(10-10-2017, 10:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: I'll take you at your word when you say an opinion cannot be wrong. No need to double down on it.

I know, I just had additional thoughts and wanted to get them out.

[BmorePat87]

(10-10-2017, 09:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's the nature of the word opinion. It may run counter to law/mandate or social norms, but it doesn't make it wrong.

Also, that's your opinion, man.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-10-2017, 08:32 PM)Vlad Wrote: That's what I thought you meant by verbiage, and of course you are wrong.
Many misuse the word so don't feel bad.

speech or writing that uses too many words or excessively technical expressions.

synonyms:

verbosity, wordiness, prolixity, long-windedness, loquacity, rigmarole, circumlocution, superfluity, periphrasis

It also means the way in which something is express because there is more than one definition and clearly I needed to dumb it down for you because you still haven't been able to answer what I thought was a pretty simple question. Would you like to answer the question you're clearly avoiding?

[GMDino]

See...this is the kind of stupid stuff stupid people are passing around social media



Anyone want to guess how many people "liked" it or commented about how they can leave the country?

It's amazing how easy it is to rile up people.

[*Nately120*]

I was on nfl.com reading the comments (stupidly) for the Eifert to IR article and the thing is littered with people who are complaining about the NFL and the kneeling because they don't have comment sections on the relevant flag-related articles. I even noticed someone claiming the NFL is opposing his right to free speech by not having comment sections for those articles.

Oy, it never fails to amuse me how people misconstrue what the right to free speech really means.

[CKwi88]

(10-11-2017, 11:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: See...this is the kind of stupid stuff stupid people are passing around social media



Anyone want to guess how many people "liked" it or commented about how they can leave the country?

It's amazing how easy it is to rile up people.

It's on Facebook, it has to be true!

[*Nately120*]

(10-11-2017, 11:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: See...this is the kind of stupid stuff stupid people are passing around social media



Anyone want to guess how many people "liked" it or commented about how they can leave the country?

It's amazing how easy it is to rile up people.

Pete Carroll is surprisingly into that.

[GMDino]

https://www.inquisitr.com/4551347/after-nfl-controversy-trump-forgets-to-stand-for-military-flag-lowering-ceremony-talks-through-it-instead/

Quote:AFTER NFL CONTROVERSY, TRUMP FORGETS TO STAND FOR MILITARY FLAG-LOWERING CEREMONY, TALKS THROUGH IT INSTEAD

Donald Trump has made repeated attacks on NFL players who refuse to stand during the national anthem, but critics said Trump is guilty of doing just that during a Fox News interview with Sean Hannity this week.


Trump was interviewed by Hannity at an Air National Guard hangar in Middletown, Pennsylvania. In the midst of the interview, the loudspeakers began playing the tune “Retreat,” which signals the official end of duty. As the Balance noted, it is also a ceremony to pay respect to the flag as it is lowered for the day.


But Donald Trump appeared to be confused with hearing the song — which Newsweek noted is a military tradition dating back to even before the American Revolutionary War — and instead asked Sean Hannity if the song was playing in his own honor.


“What a nice sound that is,” Trump said (via the Washington Examiner). “Are they playing that for you or for me?”


“They’re playing that in honor of his ratings,” Trump replied to his own question. “He’s beating everybody.”


During the song, the show’s cameras caught some members of the audience standing in respect for the flag, Newsweek noted. Uniformed members of the military are required to stop and salute the flag, while civilians are required to place their hand over their heart.


But Trump did neither, instead continuing his interview with Sean Hannity, Business Insider noted.

Quote:[/url] Follow
Oliver Willis 

@owillis
when it came down to REALLY showing respect for the flag, trump just sat on his rear https://shareblue.com/trump-laughs-and-jokes-during-solemn-retreat-ceremony-honoring-flag-while-on-military-base/ …
11:33 PM - Oct 11, 2017

Trump laughs and jokes during solemn "Retreat" ceremony honoring flag while on military base -...
Donald Trump refused to stand or honor the American flag as a bugle played signaling the "Retreat" ceremony on a military base.
shareblue.com

That led to a round of criticism given Trump’s harsh views on NFL players who choose to sit or kneel during the national anthem. Last season, former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick chose to take a knee during the national anthem in protest of police brutality against minorities. Since then, a handful of other players across the league joined in.


Earlier this season, Trump took aim at the protesting players, saying at a rally in Alabama that the owners should fire the players who take part in the protests. 
Since then, Trump has revisited the issue several more times and even orchestrated an event this weekend where Vice President Mike Pence walked out of a game between the Colts and 49ers after several players participated in demonstrations during the national anthem.


Trump said later that day that he had told Pence to walk out if players protested, which was a given as the 49ers have consistently participated in protests going back to last season.


In the wake of Donald Trump’s American flag flub, many shared video of the way comedian Robin Williams reacted to a surprise playing of “Retreat” during an appearance in Afghanistan. As service members stood and turned toward the flag, Williams followed suit, stopping himself mid-sentence to show respect for the flag.

Quote:[url=https://twitter.com/owillis] Follow
Oliver Willis 

@owillis
Here's how Robin Williams responded to the bugle calling "Retreat" while on a military base. Trump just sat. https://shareblue.com/trump-laughs-and-jokes-during-solemn-retreat-ceremony-honoring-flag-while-on-military-base/ …
11:54 PM - Oct 11, 2017

Donald Trump has not released any statement about his failure to stand for the flag-lowering ceremony, but he continues to lean on the NFL. In a tweet this week, he congratulated the NFL for a new rule requiring players to stand for the anthem — a rule proposal that has not actually been put into place or even discussed among NFL owners yet.

[MrRager]

(10-11-2017, 11:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: See...this is the kind of stupid stuff stupid people are passing around social media



Anyone want to guess how many people "liked" it or commented about how they can leave the country?

It's amazing how easy it is to rile up people.

"There"