People That Will Blindly Vote For Biden.....

[BmorePat87]

(08-08-2020, 12:03 AM)Mer Wrote: That's surprising! Most government teachers I've known were conservative.

Will you please educate me on why Biden would be better? And do you think it's possible Biden will be replaced as the Democratic candidate?

(08-07-2020, 04:23 PM)treee Wrote: - He actually has experience governing

- He is a centrist 

- He doesn't dog whistle white supremacy crap 

- Doesn't seem like he has a personality disorder

(08-07-2020, 08:46 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Add to this list:

-He is taking the pandemic seriously 


Voting Biden is a no brainer. Trump has proven to be the most incompetent President in the modern era, and it's not close. He will objectively go down in history as one of the worst presidents.

Further add to the list:

He has empathy

He would confront Putin on bounties and interference

He would value alliances with democracies over autocracies 

He has a healthcare plan

He supports the LGBT community

He supports education

To answer your question: absolutely not. 

[Dill]

(08-07-2020, 04:19 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Are you insane?  

Do you not care about the well-being of this country?

This dude is so far gone that it's not even funny anymore because there's a possibility that he could win because people will vote Democrat blindly thinking that Republicans are just rich racists.

Take this video, for example, where he responds to a black reporter asking him if he had taken a cognitive test and he responds with "...... did you take a test where you're taking cocaine or not?"

If Trump said ANYTHING like that, he would be beaten down by the media and the public would be calling him every name in the book, but Biden does it and it's ok?  Democrats still want to elect this guy?

And people say that Trump's the racist one



I know some of you will, so please explain how you can vote for a guy that's this far gone mentally?

Help me out here Bfritz.  

The reporter asks Biden why he doesn't take a cognitive test as Trump did. If I understand Biden's response, he doesn't think he should have to.

Is Biden then asking the reporter if the reporter should have to take a drug test to get a job? Meaning that would be an example of an unreasonable request?  I am curious since many employers do require drug tests from employees.

Are you saying if the reporter is Black then it is racist to use a drug test example?  

[GMDino]

Just to piggyback here:

People who spent 4 years defending Trump as "misunderstood", who said he jst "did thing differently because the old ways didn't work", who wanted to "give him a chance", etc probably can't understand why other people who saw Trump for the failure of a President (and human being) that he is would support someone else UNLESS it is because they hate Trump.

The refusal to see the differences short of "you don't like Trump" isn't surprising but it is disappointing from a monolith that have refused to see Trump's faults.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-08-2020, 01:23 AM)Mer Wrote: Well I'm conservative and I didn't say that so that's false.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/trump-symbolically-anthony-scaramucci-232848

Quote:“No, no, no, no, don’t take him literally, take him symbolically,” Anthony Scaramucci told MSNBC. “See, it’s different.”

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

[Goalpost]

(08-08-2020, 09:22 AM)GMDino Wrote: Just to piggyback here:

People who spent 4 years defending Trump as "misunderstood", who said he jst "did thing differently because the old ways didn't work", who wanted to "give him a chance", etc probably can't understand why other people who saw Trump for the failure of a President (and human being) that he is would support someone else UNLESS it is because they hate Trump.

The refusal to see the differences short of "you don't like Trump" isn't surprising but it is disappointing from a monolith that have refused to see Trump's faults.

I see Trump's faults.  But Dems have lots of faults also.  To say those don't matter because Trump trumps everything just seems careless and too easy and sloppy to characterize.  Trump's biggest issue is his ego and he is vulgar at times setting a bad example for others.  It's no secret this turns women off.  The economy was not horrible at all under Trump.  Low unemployment with lower level wages raising at a faster rate than higher wages was a dramatic change from the last few decades.  He reduced regulation and I suspect our economy would have grown more if not for the issues with the EU and the negative rate environment that originated from there.  Trade will always be a problem with China as nobody yet has fixed our trade balance there.  He required other countries to pay for their own defense under a fair share argument.  I mean I could go on....from a policy standpoint he has pretty much done what he said he would. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-08-2020, 11:04 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I see Trump's faults.  But Dems have lots of faults also.  To say those don't matter because Trump trumps everything just seems careless and too easy and sloppy to characterize.  Trump's biggest issue is his ego and he is vulgar at times setting a bad example for others.  It's no secret this turns women off.  The economy was not horrible at all under Trump.  Low unemployment with lower level wages raising at a faster rate than higher wages was a dramatic change from the last few decades.  He reduced regulation and I suspect our economy would have grown more if not for the issues with the EU and the negative rate environment that originated from there.  Trade will always be a problem with China as nobody yet has fixed our trade balance there.  He required other countries to pay for their own defense under a fair share argument.  I mean I could go on....from a policy standpoint he has pretty much done what he said he would. 

I would say Trump's biggest issue is his dishonesty and a lack of integrity.  He is completely untrustworthy.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/

[BmorePat87]

(08-08-2020, 11:04 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I see Trump's faults.  But Dems have lots of faults also.  To say those don't matter because Trump trumps everything just seems careless and too easy and sloppy to characterize.  Trump's biggest issue is his ego and he is vulgar at times setting a bad example for others.  It's no secret this turns women off.  The economy was not horrible at all under Trump.  Low unemployment with lower level wages raising at a faster rate than higher wages was a dramatic change from the last few decades.  He reduced regulation and I suspect our economy would have grown more if not for the issues with the EU and the negative rate environment that originated from there.  Trade will always be a problem with China as nobody yet has fixed our trade balance there.  He required other countries to pay for their own defense under a fair share argument.  I mean I could go on....from a policy standpoint he has pretty much done what he said he would. 

The economy was also at record levels when he entered office. I think many would point to what he did next, specifically increasing the deficit, as evidence that he was actually mismanaging the economy.

Trillion dollar deficits during an expansion is not a good thing. It’s also the opposite of the policy position he promised.

A huge problem is the bulk of this came via massive tax cuts for the wealthy that only had a modest impact on average Americans. The idea was that the wealthy would invest it but they didn’t.

Another issue was that much of the deficit spending was in defense, rather than something that more effectively boosts the economy like infrastructure. One helps corporate contractors with large margins while one directly improves a community.

It was a bubble waiting to burst, and the economy was already slowing down. Whether in 2020, 2022, or 2025, these fiscal decisions were going to cause a lot of trouble.

[GMDino]

(08-08-2020, 11:04 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I see Trump's faults.  But Dems have lots of faults also.  To say those don't matter because Trump trumps everything just seems careless and too easy and sloppy to characterize.  Trump's biggest issue is his ego and he is vulgar at times setting a bad example for others.  It's no secret this turns women off.  The economy was not horrible at all under Trump.  Low unemployment with lower level wages raising at a faster rate than higher wages was a dramatic change from the last few decades.  He reduced regulation and I suspect our economy would have grown more if not for the issues with the EU and the negative rate environment that originated from there.  Trade will always be a problem with China as nobody yet has fixed our trade balance there.  He required other countries to pay for their own defense under a fair share argument.  I mean I could go on....from a policy standpoint he has pretty much done what he said he would. 

Trump did, and I say this pretty clearly, almost nothing as POTUS except act like a child, refuse to "grow into the job" and demonstrate that the concept of the "outsider" isn't working because in this case the outsider doesn't want to do the job he only wants to help himself.  His "policies" are nothing more than destroying anything with Obama's name on it and taking credit for things Obama did.

Re-read this thread and you'll see plenty of examples of things Biden is good for more than just not being Trump.

[Dill]

(08-08-2020, 11:04 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I see Trump's faults.  But Dems have lots of faults also.  To say those don't matter because Trump trumps everything just seems careless and too easy and sloppy to characterize.  Trump's biggest issue is his ego and he is vulgar at times setting a bad example for others.  It's no secret this turns women off.  The economy was not horrible at all under Trump.  Low unemployment with lower level wages raising at a faster rate than higher wages was a dramatic change from the last few decades.  He reduced regulation and I suspect our economy would have grown more if not for the issues with the EU and the negative rate environment that originated from there.  Trade will always be a problem with China as nobody yet has fixed our trade balance there.  He required other countries to pay for their own defense under a fair share argument.  I mean I could go on....from a policy standpoint he has pretty much done what he said he would. 

Bpat has effectively addressed your points about the economy GP. I want to check some other issues you raised.

1. There are faults common to every politician in every age and there are unprecedented "faults" whose tolerance puts trust in the government and its function at risk. So far Biden has given no indication that he scorns rule of law and will use presidential powers/prerogatives to enrich himself, to punish enemies, and to block investigations into his abuses of power. Further, Biden has shown no tendency to embrace conspiracy theories, such as those peddled by Alex Jones, or to hire people who do and inject them into the policy making process. Biden does not work by creating distrust in the press and government. There is nothing careless or sloppy in noting how unprecedented and consequential Trump's faults are in a president.

2. Trump's "ego" is a problem because it leads him to ignore or dispute good counsel. We see this in his foreign policy behavior as well as his handling of the pandemic. When his counselors speak truth to power, he fires them, or makes working conditions so bad that they quit, or keeps them away from the camera. In response, his counselors shape "truth" to his desires and preconceptions, creating a false basis for policy decisions. The resulting WH dysfunction is in itself an unprecedented national security threat. Finally, Trump's fragile ego is a focus of our adversaries intel services, presenting a psychological profile that begs easy manipulation. There is much more at stake here than a "bad example."  A bus driver who doesn't know how to make turns in heavy city traffic, doesn't understand traffic regulations, and won't listen to warnings is not just setting a bad example; he is endangering lives, the bus, and nearby cars. We are all on that bus.

3. He "turns women off" not only because of the vulgar tweets, but because now some 22 women have lodged sexual assault complaints against him, including rape. He has responded by mocking them, even insinuating some were too ugly to molest. He cheated on all his wives, including Melania--with a porn star no less while she was nursing Baron. That's a far cry from a few unsolicited shoulder massages. To vote someone like that into office also sends a message to youth about what is really acceptable behavior, what is acceptable as "normal" in men's dealings with women.

4. Trump said he would build a wall, deport all illegal immigrants, rebuild our infrastructure, and get in place a healthcare policy much better than Obama care. He pledged to label China a "currency manipulator" on his first day. Except for continual action to undo Obamacare, little has been done on any of these fronts, though he has definitely imposed greater costs on asylum seekers at the southern border.

5. He is a breaker of foreign policy, not a builder. He has trashed the Iran Deal, pulled the US out of the Paris Agreement and the TPP, and threatens to pull our troops out of SK. He has publicly supported our adversaries while dissing and unsettling our allies, pushing them to seek security alternatives which exclusde the U.S. Unlike the pandemic, where his bad decisions are manifest each new day, the consequences of these decisions are mediated and long term, making their nefarious effects harder see. But they are there.

It's not that Dem faults "don't matter," but that they pale in scale compared to Trump's. Why is Trump's manifest readiness to abuse power ok? Other than Nixon, is there any precedent? Why is the daily lying acceptable?

[hollodero]

(08-07-2020, 04:23 PM)treee Wrote: - He actually has experience governing

- He is a centrist 

- He doesn't dog whistle white supremacy crap 

- Doesn't seem like he has a personality disorder

(08-07-2020, 04:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: He understands and follows the rule of law.

He doesn't have a history of actively subverting our democracy.

He is willing to listen to experts in their fields to help advise him on things.

He hasn't been found by a court of law to have committed numerous acts of fraud.

I mean, this list could go on and on.

(08-07-2020, 08:46 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Add to this list:

-He is taking the pandemic seriously 

(08-08-2020, 01:33 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Further add to the list:

He has empathy

He would confront Putin on bounties and interference

He would value alliances with democracies over autocracies 

He has a healthcare plan

He supports the LGBT community

He supports education

- He would never hold back military aid for an ally to get a sham investigation into a personal enemy announced

- He would not be an utter embarrassment on the world stage

- He would choose competent people and not friendly doctors, family members, TV commentators and other folk he would himself call dumb and awful and whatnot after firing them

- He would not call the media the enemy of the people for not praising him

- He is less vulgar and does not tweet hateful nonsense all the time

- He is not a habitual, pathological liar

- He would not think of himself as the greatest genius that ever lived, not even after passing a dementia test

- He would not demand that everyone around him constantly kiss his behind

This could go on and on indeed.

[NATI BENGALS]

Were Americans recently banned from traveling to certain countries?

If that ain’t maga’in I don’t know what is.

Y’all with this blind loyalty to a conman is more frustrating than constipation.

[Goalpost]

(08-08-2020, 01:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The economy was also at record levels when he entered office. I think many would point to what he did next, specifically increasing the deficit, as evidence that he was actually mismanaging the economy.

Trillion dollar deficits during an expansion is not a good thing. It’s also the opposite of the policy position he promised.

A huge problem is the bulk of this came via massive tax cuts for the wealthy that only had a modest impact on average Americans. The idea was that the wealthy would invest it but they didn’t.

Another issue was that much of the deficit spending was in defense, rather than something that more effectively boosts the economy like infrastructure. One helps corporate contractors with large margins while one directly improves a community.

It was a bubble waiting to burst, and the economy was already slowing down. Whether in 2020, 2022, or 2025, these fiscal decisions were going to cause a lot of trouble.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/interest-rate

As you can see by the chart, Obama faced zero resistance from the Fed.  In fact his entire term was heavily friendly from the Fed to stimulate the economy.  When Trump entered office the Fed raised rates on him cooling the economy off.  As we know, Trump hated Powell for this.  The Fed usually will raise rates for inflationary pressure but that was never existent.  Only at the end can we see that the Fed responded the opposite way due to the virus.  I don't think the reason for this difference was political by the Fed but just stating the reality of the difference that Trump's economic plan faced more headwind and yet still accomplished 3.5 unemployment and salaries increasing most by percentage to the lowest incomes.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-08-2020, 05:51 PM)Goalpost Wrote: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/interest-rate

As you can see by the chart, Obama faced zero resistance from the Fed.  In fact his entire term was heavily friendly from the Fed to stimulate the economy.  When Trump entered office the Fed raised rates on him cooling the economy off.  As we know, Trump hated Powell for this.  The Fed usually will raise rates for inflationary pressure but that was never existent.  Only at the end can we see that the Fed responded the opposite way due to the virus.  I don't think the reason for this difference was political by the Fed but just stating the reality of the difference that Trump's economic plan faced more headwind and yet still accomplished 3.5 unemployment and salaries increasing most by percentage to the lowest incomes.

They inherited two different economies.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/economy/chart-book-tracking-the-post-great-recession-economy

Quote: When President Trump took office in January 2017, he inherited an economy in its 91st month of economic expansion following the end of the Great Recession in June 2009. That expansion continued into 2020, becoming the longest on record, but a sharp contraction in economic activity arising from COVID-19 ended it.

I think you can say Obama’s economic plan faced more headwind since he inherited the Great Recession and had to turn it around. Trump inherited a good economy and just didn’t have to F it up.

[BmorePat87]

(08-08-2020, 05:51 PM)Goalpost Wrote: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/interest-rate

As you can see by the chart, Obama faced zero resistance from the Fed.  In fact his entire term was heavily friendly from the Fed to stimulate the economy.  When Trump entered office the Fed raised rates on him cooling the economy off.  As we know, Trump hated Powell for this.  The Fed usually will raise rates for inflationary pressure but that was never existent.  Only at the end can we see that the Fed responded the opposite way due to the virus.  I don't think the reason for this difference was political by the Fed but just stating the reality of the difference that Trump's economic plan faced more headwind and yet still accomplished 3.5 unemployment and salaries increasing most by percentage to the lowest incomes.

But in a recession you lower rates and then you raise them during an expansion.

That’s also monetary policy, which he doesn’t control, and my comment was with regards to fiscal policy, which he does partially control.

Unemployment had been on the downtrend since 2010, with it going from just under 10% in 2010 to 4.7% when Obama left office. In his final 3 years it decreased nearly 2%, which is of course more than what Trump saw.

Obviously it’s harder to go from 5.5 to 4.5 than 4.5 to 3.5, but the point is he inherited these trends. What major actions you can credit him with has put the nation on a poor path forward

[*Nately120*]

If I didn't know better I'd say the OP was trying to start a thread where people trashed Trump and complimented Biden for 3+ pages.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/08/08/politics/trump-veterans-choice-paula-reid/index.html

The only thing that scares this coward more than military service is being asked a question.

I’ve never seen a triggered, orange snowflake run away from a podium that quickly.

[BmorePat87]

(08-08-2020, 10:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If I didn't know better I'd say the OP was trying to start a thread where people trashed Trump and complimented Biden for 3+ pages.

3 pages in and we have had two dozen reasons to vote for Biden explained and numerous false beliefs about Trump fully debunked. It's almost like the voting for Biden crowd uses evidence while the voting for Trump crowd has depended on feelings and false rhetoric to bolster blind loyalty. Wild. 

[Goalpost]

(08-08-2020, 08:47 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: But in a recession you lower rates and then you raise them during an expansion.

That’s also monetary policy, which he doesn’t control, and my comment was with regards to fiscal policy, which he does partially control.

Unemployment had been on the downtrend since 2010, with it going from just under  10% in 2010 to 4.7% when Obama left office. In his final 3 years it decreased nearly 2%, which is of course more than what Trump saw.

Obviously it’s harder to go from 5.5 to 4.5 than 4.5 to 3.5, but the point is he inherited these trends. What major actions you can credit him with has put the nation on a poor path forward

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/consumer-confidence

Obviously post pandemic, a lot a has changed.  But consumer sentiment pre-pandemic was on a rise before the virus.  I think it's fair, you may disagree, but if the vote was just about the economy, most thought the economy would have been a tougher sell for the Dems to oust Trump on.  Again, we live in a different world now.   But this economic indicator about how people feel about their financial and economical situation....a monthly indicator....shows sentiment was strengthening leading up to the virus.