Planned Parenthood: New Video

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2015, 05:04 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: So please tell us Fred, in your opinion, how much a person would have to make in annual income in order to survive without all of these government handouts, and then tell us why anyone would choose to work their ass off just for the bare minimum when they can get the exact same place by doing nothing or next to nothing?

If you're handed free rent, free food, free daycare, free healthcare, and so on, how much do you think those things cost?  Probably close to $2000 per month, right?  Tell me what a person with no high school education can do in order to make $2000 more per month that doesn't include illegal activities or forcing a fast food joint to pay a high school dropout $20 per hour?

First of all no single person gets $2000 a month just for himself.  That is the first myth that people like you fall for.  Unless there are children involved you don't get anywhere near that much.

Second, tell me how it is possible for every single person to have a job like that pays $2000 a month.  That is $11.50 an hour working full time.  Where are these million s and millions of full time jobs paying $11.50 and hour going to come from?

Even with 10% unemployment you claim that it would cripple the economy to raise the minimum wage to $11.50. Now you are saying that it is possible to not only create millions of jobs out of thin air to reach 0% unemployment, but to also raise the minimum wage to $11.50 and hour.

You keep avoiding the point I make.  I don't know why I even continue to try to explain it to you.  i repeat the same question over and over again and all i get in reply is anecdotal BS from the right-wing echo chamber that has nothing to do with reality.

"Just make them suffer more, and there won't be any poor people."

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-25-2015, 05:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all no single person gets $2000 a month just for himself.  That is the first myth that people like you fall for.  Unless there are children involved you don't get anywhere near that much.

Second, tell me how it is possible for every single person to have a job like that pays $2000 a month.  That is $11.50 an hour working full time.  Where are these million s and millions of full time jobs paying $11.50 and hour going to come from?

Obviously when I mentioned free daycare, I was referring to single parents. 

Hell, we paid $170 for daycare for one kid.  That's over $700 per month right there, assuming one kid. 

What do you think section 8 saves?  How about free food and health care?  You don't think that would come out to roughly $2000 per month?

People that work minimum wage jobs either lack the skills, education, or ambition to do anything else.  You shouldn't be trying to raise kids on a minimum wage job.  How about not having a kid until you can afford it?  How about finishing school?  What about learning a skill? 

[BmorePat87]

(08-25-2015, 01:06 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Yeah, just like LBJ saying with the passing of the Great Society that "we'll have them n*****s voting for us for the next 200 years", but yet black people overwhelmingly vote democrat. 

Heck, this same Democrat party has convinced Americans that black people are too incapable to procure an ID in order to vote and ensure legitimate elections when they claim that voter ID laws are racist. 

There's no reputable source to verify that LBJ quote.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-25-2015, 05:31 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: There's no reputable source to verify that LBJ quote.

I'm not so concerned with the exact quote, more so I am the coincidental timing of legislation.  

Interesting timing for that Great Society program to start.  

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2015, 05:24 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: People that work minimum wage jobs either lack the skills, education, or ambition to do anything else.  You shouldn't be trying to raise kids on a minimum wage job.  How about not having a kid until you can afford it?  How about finishing school?  What about learning a skill? 

Again you ignore reality no matter how many times I throw it in your face.

There are not millions of jobs sitting empty that require more skill, education, or skills in order for everyone to have one.  There are goinmg to be a large porion of the population that is unemployed or working for low wages no matter how ambitious or educated everyone becomes.

You are basing all of your arguments of total lies that deny reality.  There sim ply are not enough well paying jobs for everyone to have one no matter how hard everyone works.  The claim that "Everyone would have a great job if they just worked harder or got an education." just is not true.  I don't know why you just keep repeating that over and over again.  Repeating something does not make it true.

Making the poor suffer more will not end poverty.  All it will do is make people suffer more.  Making people suffer does not create jobs out of thin air.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-25-2015, 06:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again you ignore reality no matter how many times I throw it in your face.

There are not millions of jobs sitting empty that require more skill, education, or skills in order for everyone to have one.  There are goinmg to be a large porion of the population that is unemployed or working for low wages no matter how ambitious or educated everyone becomes.

So your solution is to give people perpetual benefits, but then argue that there's no such thing as a system designed to keep people in perpetual poverty?

Great plan.  

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2015, 05:40 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I'm not so concerned with the exact quote, more so I am the coincidental timing of legislation.  

Interesting timing for that Great Society program to start.  

What is your point?

You don't think we should have done anything to address the problem of poverty in America?  And if you do agree  then why would you think it was crazy for the people it helped to vote for the President who helped address the problem?

I am sure you have some ideas on policies that you would like to see passed into law that would help you.  If a politician did this would you then vote for him?

[jakefromstatefarm]

Further, how do you prove that making people suffer wouldn't lead to less poverty?

If poor meant that you were going to a food pantry to pick up beans, bologna, bottled water and oatmeal rather than going to Kroger and filling a cart up with steak, potato chips, soda, and junk food, perhaps that might give you a little more incentive to show up at work and work hard.

Maybe if you grew up as a child in an environment like this it might make you take your education more serious.

Your answer seems to be nothing short of communism.

[BmorePat87]

(08-25-2015, 05:40 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I'm not so concerned with the exact quote, more so I am the coincidental timing of legislation.  

Interesting timing for that Great Society program to start.  

So you don't care if what you post has been made up?

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2015, 06:06 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: So your solution is to give people perpetual benefits, but then argue that there's no such thing as a system designed to keep people in perpetual poverty?

Great plan.  

My plan is to deal with reality.

And, yes, that is a much better idea than living in fantasy land and making up lies that defy reality.  

Our country is thriving under our current system.  All I say is that when you have a system that is working and making the country wealthy you should take care of the poor and disadvantaged.  Our system REQUIRES that there be losers.  That is not the fault of the losers.  That is just the by-product of capitalism.  So the question is "Should we allow a small percentage to amass more and more wealth while forcing the poor to suffer, or should we take care of the poor and disadvantaged?"

I believe that as long as the country is thriving we should take care of the poor and disadvantaged.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-25-2015, 06:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't think we should have done anything to address the problem of poverty in America?  And if you do agree  then why would you think it was crazy for the people it helped to vote for the President who helped address the problem?

I am sure you have some ideas on policies that you would like to see passed into law that would help you.  If a politician did this would you then vote for him?

I wouldn't support any plans that punishes people for taking promotions or working more hours.  The current programs do that, whether you believe it to be true or not. 

Government should not encourage people to work less.  It's preposterous. 

There should be a safety net.  I don't want to see people digging through dumpsters to feed themselves in their family. 

Having said that, I think being in poverty should be more uncomfortable than what it is.

You're talking to a guy that grew up pretty poor.  I worked two jobs for 7 years. 

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2015, 06:12 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So you don't care if what you post has been made up?

That is the benefit of living in a fantasy world.  Doesn't matter if it is true or not as long as it supports the fantasy.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-25-2015, 06:12 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So you don't care if what you post has been made up?

No, I don't really care about the quote.  It's not the point.

The point was the coincidental timing of the great society and the civil rights amendment, regardless of whether or not LBJ said such a thing.  

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-25-2015, 06:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is the benefit of living in a fantasy world.  Doesn't matter if it is true or not as long as it supports the fantasy.

Sort of like you and your communist utopia you yearn for.  

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2015, 06:19 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: The point was the coincidental timing of the great society and the civil rights amendment, regardless of whether or not LBJ said such a thing.  

What coincidental timing?  The guy wanted to help the poor and disadvantaged.  The Civil Rights Movement and the War on Poverty were just two parts of the same plan.

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2015, 06:20 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Sort of like you and your communist utopia you yearn for.  

Considering that I repeatedly say that we need a Capitalist economic system this is really funny.  

Just shows how beaten down you are on this one.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-25-2015, 01:06 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Yeah, just like LBJ saying with the passing of the Great Society that "we'll have them n*****s voting for us for the next 200 years", but yet black people overwhelmingly vote democrat. 

Heck, this same Democrat party has convinced Americans that black people are too incapable to procure an ID in order to vote and ensure legitimate elections when they claim that voter ID laws are racist. 

I know a woman who was denied her right to vote. I can't recall the details, but she claimed it was due to discrimination.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-25-2015, 06:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Considering that I repeatedly say that we need a Capitalist economic system this is really funny.  

Just shows how beaten down you are on this one.

So you're for a capitalist economic system except for when you're not?

Hilarious.  

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2015, 06:29 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: So you're for a capitalist economic system except for when you're not?

Hilarious.  

No I am for a capitalist economic system 100% of the time.  In almost every discussion we have had I have made this point.

That fact that you either can't remember such a simple fact or else have no other argument is what is truly hilarious.

Do you want me to actually post the links to the quotes where I have repeatedly explained to you how I favor a capitalist economic system?  I'll be glad to if you want.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-25-2015, 06:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No I am for a capitalist economic system 100% of the time.  In almost every discussion we have had I have made this point.

That fact that you either can't remember such a simple fact or else have no other argument is what is truly hilarious.

Do you want me to actually post the links to the quotes where I have repeatedly explained to you how I favor a capitalist economic system?  I'll be glad to if you want.

I don't think you know what capitalism is, and if you do, I've seen plenty of posts where you've argued against profits, big business, and the wealthy. 

Comical. 

Please continue educating me on what capitalism is and what a large supporter of it that you are.