Planned Parenthood selling body parts?

[Belsnickel]

Here is my thing, I'm of the "show me the money [trail]" type. Videos that can be edited and taken out of context mean nothing to me. Show me where the money has flowed, because it has to be there if there is money changing hands for these things. Especially since these are claims of a non-profit organization profiting off of these things. Unfortunately, even if an investigation turns up nothing there will be no convincing those against the organization.

[StLucieBengal]

(07-21-2015, 07:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Here is my thing, I'm of the "show me the money [trail]" type. Videos that can be edited and taken out of context mean nothing to me. Show me where the money has flowed, because it has to be there if there is money changing hands for these things. Especially since these are claims of a non-profit organization profiting off of these things. Unfortunately, even if an investigation turns up nothing there will be no convincing those against the organization.

The fact there is price variation based on what they order should be enough of a red herring.

Especially if pp has no costs since the buyers come in and take what they wish from the remains.

[*bfine32*]

(07-21-2015, 07:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Here is my thing, I'm of the "show me the money [trail]" type. Videos that can be edited and taken out of context mean nothing to me. Show me where the money has flowed, because it has to be there if there is money changing hands for these things. Especially since these are claims of a non-profit organization profiting off of these things. Unfortunately, even if an investigation turns up nothing there will be no convincing those against the organization.

No doubt. It does appear to be those that have already made up their minds prior to any investigations.

I wonder if everyone will be convinced if something is turned up?

[Belsnickel]

(07-21-2015, 07:50 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The fact there is price variation based on what they order should be enough of a red herring.

Especially if pp has no costs since the buyers come in and take what they wish from the remains.

I have explained before that storage of these sorts of things is not something taken lightly, and there are costs involved even in storage. There could be any number of costs associated, even if the representatives are picking them up.

(07-21-2015, 07:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No doubt. It does appear to be those that have already made up their minds prior to any investigations.

I wonder if everyone will be convinced if something is turned up?

I always try to take the approach of innocent until proven guilty. If I can see an auditor's report showing the claims to be accurate, then I will denounce their actions then and there.

[StLucieBengal]

Pp just needs to not get tax money. Put that money into community health clinics who offer the same non abortion services.

Then pp can go ahead and kill babies and harvest their organs for profit.

[*bfine32*]

(07-21-2015, 07:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have explained before that storage of these sorts of things is not something taken lightly, and there are costs involved even in storage. There could be any number of costs associated, even if the representatives are picking them up.

But shouldn't these costs be fixed and not open to negotiation?

[StLucieBengal]

(07-21-2015, 07:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have explained before that storage of these sorts of things is not something taken lightly, and there are costs involved even in storage. There could be any number of costs associated, even if the representatives are picking them up.


I always try to take the approach of innocent until proven guilty. If I can see an auditor's report showing the claims to be accurate, then I will denounce their actions then and there.

In the second video she says they have no costs. That the conpanies just come in and take what they want....

I hope you do Denounce of its warranted. I will certainly apologize if it's shown they were telling the truth. I just don't like how they are always involved in something sketchy.

[Belsnickel]

(07-21-2015, 07:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But shouldn't these costs be fixed and not open to negotiation?

Contract negotiations happen all of the time for services. PP is negotiating is research facilities and both sides are trying to keep costs to a minimum so their money can be used in other places. In situations like this it is more likely (read: should be the case) that PP loses money overall on it.

[*bfine32*]

(07-21-2015, 08:01 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Contract negotiations happen all of the time for services. PP is negotiating is research facilities and both sides are trying to keep costs to a minimum so their money can be used in other places. In situations like this it is more likely (read: should be the case) that PP loses money overall on it.

So that was a no; they costs shouldn't be fixed and open to negotiation or are you saying the amount they charge should be open to negotiation?

If they sell the organs for a dime more than it actually cost them then they have sold them at a profit. It doesn't matter where they then invest that profit "best deal".

[Belsnickel]

(07-21-2015, 08:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So that was a no; they costs shouldn't be fixed and open to negotiation or are you saying the amount they charge should be open to negotiation?

If they sell the organs for a dime more than it actually cost them then they have sold them at a profit. It doesn't matter where they then invest that profit "best deal".

I'm not sure how you got that from my post. Open to negotiations is a common thing. Their revenue from it should not exceed their costs, however.

[*bfine32*]

(07-21-2015, 08:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm not sure how you got that from my post. Open to negotiations is a common thing. Their revenue from it should not exceed their costs, however.

I got that from your assertion that the price for this tissue donation service should be open to negotiation. You really didn't answer the question asked, so I was forced to make an inference from your "negotiation" answer.

[GMDino]

(07-21-2015, 06:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You can watch the entire video, you know.  However, you'll likely find the same words in there.  I'm relatively certain that nothing was taken out of context.

Yes...nothing taken out of context at all.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/jul/17/planned-parenthood-video-context/

Quote:We read the 60-page transcript of the nearly three-hour luncheon and found that Nucatola reveals very little concrete information on Planned Parenthood’s practices.

Put simply, there’s no clear gotcha.


We’ll leave it up to readers to come to their own conclusions about Planned Parenthood’s practices and Nucatola’s statements, but we want to highlight a few key moments in the conversation to put the edited video in context.

It’s clear in the full-length video that Nucatola believes she is speaking with representatives from a company that provides scientific researchers with tissue from aborted fetuses (a legal process that raises difficult ethical questions). She describes the process of getting consent from patients, as well as how Planned Parenthood clinics typically interacts with the companies that take the tissue from the clinics to the researchers.

The edited video shows Nucatola discussing a per-specimen price range for tissue parts. But the full video shows that the cost under discussion is a reimbursement for the cost of preparing the specimens for transfer, not the value of the specimens themselves. She adds that Planned Parenthood needs to be able to explain exactly what the funds are used for.

Asked by the actors about a price range, Nucatola said:

"You know, I would throw a number out, I would say it’s probably anywhere from $30 to $100 (per specimen), depending on the facility and what’s involved. It just has to do with space issues, are you sending someone there who’s going to be doing everything, is there shipping involved, is somebody going to have to take it out? You know, I think everybody just wants, it’s really just about if anyone were ever to ask them, ‘What do you do for this $60? How can you justify that? Or are you basically just doing something completely egregious, that you should be doing for free.’ So it just needs to be justifiable.

"The way they budget (for the cost of producing a specimen) is by the amount of time they spend on one patient. … It depends, if (the procurement service is) expecting somebody to process, and package, identify tissue for you, it’s going to be at the higher end of the range. In all cases, it’s really going to be about staff time, because that’s the only cost to the affiliate. And then, if you want space."
Nucatola also said Planned Parenthood affiliate clinics appreciate that they can reduce some of their overhead costs of disposing of aborted fetal tissue by using a tissue procurement service.

Nucatola said:
"I think for affiliates, at the end of the day, they’re a nonprofit, they just don’t want to — they want to break even. And if they can do a little better than break even, and do so in a way that seems reasonable, they’re happy to do that. Really their bottom line is, they want to break even. Every penny they save is just pennies they give to another patient. To provide a service the patient wouldn’t get.

"No one’s going to see this as a money-making thing. The other reason affiliates think this is a good thing is, it’s less tissue that they need to worry about, it’s taken care of. They have to do something with that tissue, it’s hard to find somebody that wants to do something with that tissue, so the fact that there’s somebody that’s looking for that tissue is -- that is such a huge service to them."

Nucatola says throughout the luncheon that Planned Parenthood is not interested in making a profit off the specimens -- an interpretation the edited video pushes.

"(Clinics) want to do this, but they want to do it in a way that’s not going to impact them, and it’s much much less about money. You could call them up and say, ‘I’ll pay you double the money,’ and they’re almost more inclined to say no, because it’s going to look bad. … To them, this is not a service they should be making money from, it’s something they should be able to offer this to their patients, in a way that doesn’t impact them.

"Again, affiliates don’t —  affiliates are not looking to make money by doing this. They’re looking to serve their patients and just make it not impact their bottom line.

"At the end of the day we just want to keep the doors open. And we don’t want to let jeopardize keeping the doors open. We just want (the cost per specimen) to be reasonable for the impact it has on the clinic. This is not a new revenue stream the affiliates are looking at. This is a way to offer the patient the service that they want. Do good for the medical community.

"Like I said, is to give patients the option without impacting our bottom line. The messaging is this should not be seen as a new revenue stream because that’s not what it is."

The actors in the video act as if they are on the same page:

Actor: "I understand what you’re saying. This cannot be seen as, ‘We’re doing this for profit.’ "
Nucatola: "No. Nothing, no affiliate should be doing anything that’s not like, reasonable and customary. This is not -- nobody should be ‘selling’ tissue. That’s just not the goal here."
Actor: "Right. And, I never see that as, I don’t look at it that way, we’re not selling tissue, we’re selling the possibility of what the research can offer."
Nucatola: "I think we all would agree with you. That’s just not the perception, sadly, for everybody."
Actor: "I mean, researchers are paying for procurement, they’re not paying for —  You’re not buying a brain, you’re buying a procurement service."
Nucatola: "Exactly. Exactly."
The conversation indicates that at least some Planned Parenthood clinics do sell aborted fetal tissue. But Nucatola plainly argues that the money they’re charging is trying to offset the costs associated with tissue procurement -- a legal service.

[StLucieBengal]

(07-21-2015, 09:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yes...nothing taken out of context at all.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/jul/17/planned-parenthood-video-context/

Feel free to watch the whole video yourself. But it won't matter.... Your ok that humans are being pieced out and sold to the highest bidder like an old dodge.

[GMDino]

(07-21-2015, 10:23 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Feel free to watch the whole video yourself.   But it won't matter.... Your ok that humans are being pieced out and sold to the highest bidder like an old dodge.

Feel free to go with the edited version and your preconceived notion.  You've been wrong multiple times today...don't let it stop you now.  

[StLucieBengal]

(07-21-2015, 10:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: Feel free to go with the edited version and your preconceived notion.  You've been wrong multiple times today...don't let it stop you now.  

in what world is the "whole video" and edited version. There is a reason the whole video is released . So you can see the whole conversation.

But please keep validating whatever they tell you. God forbid you take 2 hours out and watch the video.

[GMDino]

(07-21-2015, 10:38 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: in what world is the "whole video" and edited version.   There is a reason the whole video is released . So you can see the whole conversation.  

But please keep validating whatever they tell you.     God forbid you take 2 hours out and watch the video.

And heaven for bid you watch with an open mind.  It has been explained over and over but you want to push your narrative so you just ignore it and repeat your mantra. 

[StLucieBengal]

(07-21-2015, 10:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: And heaven for bid you watch with an open mind.  It has been explained over and over but you want to push your narrative so you just ignore it and repeat your mantra. 

I have watched with an open mind.  You think I enjoy the fact there are people in our country who are shopping human parts?   It's makes me sick to think there are low life's doing this.... I wish to God that they weren't...   But I'm not blind to history either....

And it doesn't matter democrat, liberal, republican, progressive, conservative or any of them.... I don't want anyone shopping human parts.... And if they get caught out then I will be there all the same to slam them.

[GMDino]

(07-22-2015, 02:02 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I have watched with an open mind.  You think I enjoy the fact there are people in our country who are shopping human parts?   It's makes me sick to think there are low life's doing this.... I wish to God that they weren't...   But I'm not blind to history either....

And it doesn't matter democrat, liberal, republican, progressive, conservative or any of them....   I don't want anyone shopping human parts....   And if they get caught out then I will be there all the same to slam them.

Yes.  Wide open.  No bias there at all.

[Belsnickel]

(07-22-2015, 02:02 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I have watched with an open mind.  You think I enjoy the fact there are people in our country who are shopping human parts?   It's makes me sick to think there are low life's doing this.... I wish to God that they weren't...   But I'm not blind to history either....

And it doesn't matter democrat, liberal, republican, progressive, conservative or any of them.... I don't want anyone shopping human parts.... And if they get caught out then I will be there all the same to slam them.

You watched the entire 2 hours and 42 minutes worth of footage? I read the transcripts provided by CMP and what Politifact is saying is the truth of the matter. If you were to watch the entire videos (and more power to you, but I don't like watching videos enough for that) you should see the same thing, word for word. So the context is important there and what Politifact is saying is accurate in regards to the first video. I haven't read the transcript to the second video, so no idea there.

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2015, 02:02 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I have watched with an open mind.  You think I enjoy the fact there are people in our country who are shopping human parts?   It's makes me sick to think there are low life's doing this.... I wish to God that they weren't...  

Organ donors do a great service to research and can save lives for people who need transplants.  I am an organ donor myself.  

I actually think it is selfish NOT to be an organ donor.