(07-22-2015, 06:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If you cannot recognize your own bias and the issues it can cause when looking at subjective information on a controversial topic then there is no need to further this discussion. I would be better served playing chess with pigeons.
Yeah it's shame that I am not ok with organ sales.
They have 12 more videos and other documentation they have been gathering over time ready to be released. It can't all be made up. And even if 25% of this is true. Then it's enough to stop funding them.
Not sure why asking for a congressional investigation is a bad thing.
(07-22-2015, 08:33 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yeah it's shame that I am not ok with organ sales.
They have 12 more videos and other documentation they have been gathering over time ready to be released. It can't all be made up. And even if 25% of this is true. Then it's enough to stop funding them.
Not sure why asking for a congressional investigation is a bad thing.
This is not about organ sales. This is about an anti-abortion organization attacking Planned Parenthood. This is just their latest tactic for them. This is why they release the edited videos first and make their claims based on that, because their target audience, the anti-choice/pro-life crowd, will want to see that and latch onto it. They don't care what the unedited footage and the contextual information provides, their bias has directed them to see what they want to see, an end to Planned Parenthood in the making.
And I never said there shouldn't be an investigation. I just said it was sad that if nothing is turned up it won't matter because this is not really about organ sales at all.
(07-22-2015, 08:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is not about organ sales. This is about an anti-abortion organization attacking Planned Parenthood. This is just their latest tactic for them. This is why they release the edited videos first and make their claims based on that, because their target audience, the anti-choice/pro-life crowd, will want to see that and latch onto it. They don't care what the unedited footage and the contextual information provides, their bias has directed them to see what they want to see, an end to Planned Parenthood in the making.
And I never said there shouldn't be an investigation. I just said it was sad that if nothing is turned up it won't matter because this is not really about organ sales at all.
Well I can't speak for anyone but myself. But for me it's about organ sales. I have given up on the morality of abortions... Some have just come to grips with those ramifications and are ok with what happens to certain groups. There is no words that will ever unring that bell.
If they investigate and nothing comes up. I will certainly accept that and will drop it...
Quote:Who’s Behind the Planned Parenthood Sting Video? Troy Newman—and Other Rabid Anti-Choicers
The Center for Medical Progress is led not by well-meaning bioethics geeks but by some of the most virulent members of the anti-choice movement.
As soon as a video purporting to expose Planned Parenthood for “selling” fetal tissue emerged, suspicions arose that the creators, going under the name The Center for Medical Progress (CMP), were not “citizen journalists dedicated to monitoring and reporting on medical ethics and advances,” as their website declared, but “anti-choice internet yahoos,” as feminist journalist Jill Filipovic tweeted. The video, long on misleading editing and short on any evidence for its claims of illegal behavior, had all the hallmarks of right-wing agitprop.
This article was reported in partnership with The Investigative Fund at The Nation Institute.
David Daleiden, the founder of CMP and the main promoter of the video, has emerged as the face of the group and the target of scrutiny; his previous anti-choice activity included a stint working for the credibility-challenged group Live Action, which promoted the video. But the group’s more intriguing connections are hidden in a short filing with the state of California, which shows that CMP is led not by well-meaning bioethics geeks but by some familiar characters in the anti-choice movement.
A “initial registration form” for CMP (viewable here), filed with the Office of the California attorney general in 2013, lists three board members: David Daleiden, Albin Rhomberg, and Troy Newman.
Board member Troy Newman is president of the pro-life group that ran a multi-decade harassment campaign of Dr. George Tiller.
Newman, who is listed as the group’s secretary, is the president of Operation Rescue, a pro-life group that ran the multi-decade harassment campaign of Dr. George Tiller of Wichita, Kansas, a campaign that only ended when Scott Roeder, who was an active part of Operation Rescue activities in Wichita, murdered Tiller in his church in 2009.
Though Newman immediately distanced Operation Rescue from Roeder after the killing, Amanda Robb reported in Ms. magazine’s spring 2010 issue that Roeder told her he had gone “to lunch with Newman and asked him about using violence to stop abortion.”
Robb: What did you say to him?
Roeder: Oh, something like if an abortionist—I don’t even know if it was specifically Tiller…was shot, would it be justified?… And [Newman] said, “If it were, it wouldn’t upset me.”
Newman said he had “no recollection of ever meeting Scott Roeder.”
It was Troy Newman who moved Operation Rescue headquarters to Wichita in 2002, targeting Tiller’s clinic with protests. More recently, in 2012, Newman blamed the murder of Tiller not on Roeder or the history of harassment, but on Wichita district attorney Nola Foulston, who declined to join a legal harassment campaign against Tiller spearheaded by then–attorney general Phill Kline. “If Nola Foulston had done her job with George Tiller, he would still be alive today,” Newman told the AP. Operation Rescue continues to this day to employ Cheryl Sullenger, who, in 1988, was found guilty of attempting to bomb a family-planning clinic. She did two years for her crime in federal prison.
Also included in the California document is the less-well-known Albin Rhomberg, who spearheaded a campaign in 2006 to get mandatory parental notification for minors seeking abortion into law in California. (The ballot measure failed.) As part of this campaign, Rhomberg claimed that allowing minors to abort their pregnancies is about “protecting men who sexually abuse children.”
Rhomberg, like Newman, is deep in the world of anti-abortion protest and reportedly shows up to scream at women at the Sacramento Planned Parenthood on the regular.
In 1996, Rhomberg sued California Governor Pete Wilson, claiming that the governor had suppressed his free speech rights after Rhomberg and other anti-choice protesters were arrested for disrupting the religious service at the governor’s 1991 inauguration. Protesters were hauled out of the service, of which Wilson had attended, screaming about how it was sacrilegious for a Catholic cathedral to host the nondenominational service for a pro-choice politician like Wilson.
Rhomberg lost his lawsuit, though the decision does have its moments of dark comedy:
Appellants also claim third-party standing to vindicate the rights of the unborn. Even if we conceded for the purpose of argument that the unborn were third-parties for purposes of this lawsuit, appellants offer no evidence or reasoning as to why their claim should cause us to depart from the U.S. Supreme Court’s general rule that: “Ordinarily, one may not claim standing … to vindicate the constitutional rights of some third party.”
The CMP doesn’t appear to have filed a single tax return as a nonprofit so nothing is known about its budget or how its money is spent.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
Quote:Operation Rescue West
California Life Coalition
Joint Press Release
For Immediate Release
September 3, 2003
Contact: Troy Newman, Director, Operation Rescue West (316) 841-1700
Cheryl Sullenger, Director, California Life Coalition (619) 277-0725
Execution of Paul Hill Nothing Less than Murder
Paul Jennings Hill is scheduled to die by lethal injection today in the state of Florida for the murder of a Pensacola abortionist and his security guard in 1994. The following is a joint statement released by Operation Rescue West and the California Life Coalition regarding today’s execution:
“Today’s scheduled execution of Paul Hill is not justice, but is another example of the judicial tyranny that is gripping our nation. A Florida judge denied Rev. Hill his right to present a defense that claimed that the killing of the abortionist was necessary to save the lives of the pre-born babies that were scheduled to be killed by abortion that day. Our system of justice is based upon ‘innocent until proven guilty,’ but in Rev. Hill’s case, there was no justice because the court prevented him from presenting the legal defense that his conduct was justifiable defensive action.
“There are many examples where taking the life in defense of innocent human beings is legally justified and permissible under the law. Paul Hill should have been given the opportunity to defend himself with the defense of his choosing in a court of law. Because he was denied this right, the full truth and motivations behind Hill's actions were kept hidden from the jury. If Paul Hill’s life can be taken by the state without the full advantage of the protections afforded him by due process simply because of the unpopularity of his views, then we have to wonder who is next? No one is safe from being denied a defense by an out-of-control and biased judicial system. Execution under these circumstances is nothing less than murder of a political prisoner.
“We pray for Paul Hill today, for his wife and children, and for our nation that sees no value in the lives of the innocent victims of abortion that Hill endeavored to rescue, but instead protects and defends their killers. Today, it is justice that has been aborted. May God have mercy on us!”
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(07-22-2015, 08:33 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yeah it's shame that I am not ok with organ sales.
They have 12 more videos and other documentation they have been gathering over time ready to be released. It can't all be made up. And even if 25% of this is true. Then it's enough to stop funding them.
Not sure why asking for a congressional investigation is a bad thing.
Whatever happened to:
“The nature of the evidence is irrelevant; it’s the seriousness of the charge that matters.”
This is a pretty serious charge.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
(07-23-2015, 01:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Whatever happened to:
“The nature of the evidence is irrelevant; it’s the seriousness of the charge that matters.”
This is a pretty serious charge.
Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?"
Video that when edited looks awful and when the words are taken in context aren't as bad doesn't show proof of guilt. Let's see what comes about from an audit.
Edit: I had never heard that phrase before and just discovered it is used to describe media sensationalism, which I despise. So, yeah. Now I see what you were saying. The double standard on display from both sides with this is rather astounding.
(07-23-2015, 01:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?"
Video that when edited looks awful and when the words are taken in context aren't as bad doesn't show proof of guilt. Let's see what comes about from an audit.
Hearings aren't guilty, and i just figured it it's good enough for Clarence Thomas, it's good enough for Planned Parenthood.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
(07-23-2015, 01:37 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Hearings aren't guilty, and i just figured it it's good enough for Clarence Thomas, it's good enough for Planned Parenthood.
Clarence Thomas was being considered for a "position for life" where he was part of a panel to be the final word on court cases that have the potential to affect millions of people.
There are hearings on all kinds of political positions of power.
PP get tax money to help poor women.
I see the comparison.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(07-23-2015, 01:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Whatever happened to:
“The nature of the evidence is irrelevant; it’s the seriousness of the charge that matters.”
This is a pretty serious charge.
Which is why we need a thorough investigation.
Pp could start explaining their role in organ sales and asking for an investigation. Yet they don't .... They instead go after the people who did the videos. Their reputation is wrapped up in this as much as pp. If they did sensationalize then their reputations will be affected. But if they are telling truth then .....
(07-23-2015, 01:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: Clarence Thomas was being considered for a "position for life" where he was part of a panel to be the final word on court cases that have the potential to affect millions of people.
There are hearings on all kinds of political positions of power.
PP get tax money to help poor women.
I see the comparison.
They are helping them all right..... Helping themselves to their babies organs and sacrificing quality of care to the poor women so they can harvest more organs to sell. (Video 2)
(07-23-2015, 01:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: Clarence Thomas was being considered for a "position for life" where he was part of a panel to be the final word on court cases that have the potential to affect millions of people.
There are hearings on all kinds of political positions of power.
PP get tax money to help poor women.
I see the comparison.
So that's not a universal statement?
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
Quote:“The investigation has concluded there was no evidence of this type of activity at these sites,” said the Indiana Department of Health in a statement, referring to the accusations that the three surgical abortion centers run by Planned Parenthood in the state were collecting fetal tissue without patients’ consent and selling it for profit.
Quote:Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey said, “Over the past week, my office has conducted a thorough review and found that Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts’ health care centers are fully compliant with state and federal laws regarding the disposition of fetal tissue. Although donation of fetal tissue is permissible under state and federal law, PPLM does not have a tissue donation program. There is no evidence that PPLM is involved in any way in the buying or selling of tissue. As such, our review is complete.”
All offices are independent. you have a lot of states to go. And without a doubt pp wanted some good news before the vote. They know which ones are dirty. Notice how we don't have anyone from Colorado and California saying they were clean.
Planned Parenthood selling body parts?
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