Playing the "called me racist" card.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-15-2020, 04:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So I 100% get the comments about how "people who do nothing are part of the problem" seem to call everyone a racist.  But that type of allegation is usually not brought up against a specific individual to label them as a racist.  It is usually just a generic complaint against indifference.

However, if you are in a position to address public policy through your job then indifference and inaction can be a form of racist behavior.

I guess they CAN be a form of racist behavior but only in certain very specific situations. I'd say that a lot of (most?) actions and inactions aren't inherently racist but the motivations behind them can be.

[fredtoast]

(09-15-2020, 04:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well I eliminated names to protect the guilty. But you clearly asked why I felt differently about folks "like Blake".

I clearly admitted the meme I posted was inaccurate and gave why I hold him to a different standard in this case (he was violating a PPO). But that never stopped your "folks like Blake" position.  You clearly made it about race at your first possible opportunity. Perhaps you meant I have a different standard for Geminis 

Yeah, there's definitely some BS going on. But you know what they say "Innocent until proven guilty..."

WTS, my position remains unchanged. Folks won't just come out and call someone a racist, they like to consider themselves "open-minded". They'll just paint the picture with a broad brush and let other figure it out.

There are lots of reasons people attack alleged victims of improper behavior by the police.  Some are blindly Pro-Trump.  Some are blindly Pro-police.  And some are racists.  And those are some of the people that make up the right-wing echo chamber.

I never once implied that you were racists.  I just accused you of living in the right-wing echo chamber.  I'll post the link so everyone can see if you want.

And one of the defense mechanism taught by the right-wing echo chamber is to play the "they called me a racist" victim card when someone calls out their BS.  Greg Gutfeld is a perfect example of that and I am sure I can find plenty more from other people on Fox and all the other popular places where you can find fake memes to attack guys like Jacob Blake.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-15-2020, 03:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well they are wrong.  

Saying that white people have privileges in our society is not the same as saying white people are racist.  All the white people who acknowledge their privilege are not admitting that they are racist.

And refusing to acknowledge white privilege is usually more about ignorance than racism.  You can tell by the arguments white people usually use to try and deny it like "Why are their poor white people if they are all so privileged?"    

I was just giving my opinion as to why people might feel like they are being called racist.

Oh, and I disagree with you.

[*bfine32*]

(09-15-2020, 05:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There are lots of reasons people attack alleged victims of improper behavior by the police.  Some are blindly Pro-Trump.  Some are blindly Pro-police.  And some are racists.  And those are some of the people that make up the right-wing echo chamber.

I never once implied that you were racists.  I just accused you of living in the right-wing echo chamber.  I'll post the link so everyone can see if you want.

And one of the defense mechanism taught by the right-wing echo chamber is to play the "they called me a racist" victim card when someone calls out their BS.  Greg Gutfeld is a perfect example of that and I am sure I can find plenty more from other people on Fox and all the other popular places where you can find fake memes to attack guys like Jacob Blake.

WhatISaid Wrote:WTS, my position remains unchanged. Folks won't just come out and call someone a racist, they like to consider themselves "open-minded". They'll just paint the picture with a broad brush and let other figure it out.

Just share with the class what you meant by "people like Blake" when accusing me of hyprocrisy...or not, folks know. 

[BmorePat87]

Someone on a local NBC affiliate implied that I was on Facebook for calling out the NFL out for making Vick a captain. They then accused me of supporting Ben Roethlisberger.

“Nah, **** that rapist. I actually think Kap should be a captain”.


They didn’t repeat their comments.

Then again, that’s just dumb people on Facebook. I’ve been called other things too from every side.

[*michaelsean*]

It was suggested many times that opposition to Obama was race based here and across the internet.

[*michaelsean*]

(09-15-2020, 05:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Someone on a local NBC affiliate implied that I was on Facebook for calling out the NFL out for making Vick a captain. They then accused me of supporting Ben Roethlisberger.

“Nah, **** that rapist. I actually think Kap should be a captain”.


They didn’t repeat their comments.

Then again, that’s just dumb people on Facebook. I’ve been called other things too from every side.

“Ginger” more than anything I would imagine.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-15-2020, 04:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well if you don't deny it then we are definitely done here.

I just recognize when you're in your contrary schtick coma and am moving on.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-15-2020, 05:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There are lots of reasons people attack alleged victims of improper behavior by the police.  Some are blindly Pro-Trump.  Some are blindly Pro-police.  And some are racists.  And those are some of the people that make up the right-wing echo chamber.

I never once implied that you were racists.  I just accused you of living in the right-wing echo chamber.  I'll post the link so everyone can see if you want.

And one of the defense mechanism taught by the right-wing echo chamber is to play the "they called me a racist" victim card when someone calls out their BS.  Greg Gutfeld is a perfect example of that and I am sure I can find plenty more from other people on Fox and all the other popular places where you can find fake memes to attack guys like Jacob Blake.

The dude was a criminal with an arrest warrant for sexual assault, domestic abuse and disorderly conduct and is accused of sticking his fingers up her cooter (rape) while her daughter was next to her in bed, smelling his fingers and saying it smells like you have been with other men.  He was violating a PPO, resisting arrest, refusing to stay down after being tased TWICE, walked to his car while police, with their guns drawn, were yelling at him to stop and then opened his car door and reached for the floor.  This has nothing to do with systemic police racism or systemic police brutality, this is 100% dumb idiot gets himself shot.  All he has to do is cooperate and he is walking today uninjured.

Biden and Harris visited Jacob Blake and family. Think they will visit the 2 cops that were almost assassinated?

[Belsnickel]

(09-15-2020, 04:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Interesting point, although I don't think it's as universal as that.  I will say that being white is the "next best thing" to being Chinese if you're in China or Japanese if you're in Japan.  I'm sure someone here will try and spin that statement way beyond what I'm actually saying.  The real question is why would that be the case?  Is it as simple as western culture being so dominant?  The follow up to that would be why is western culture so dominant?  Ans I suppose the follow up to that would be is that a bad thing?

Well, it isn't that simple, but it is one of the larger contributing factors. Some look to colonial influence that still exists in many places (at least where the current governments aren't hostile towards that old influence), and I'm sure there are others. The problem is that this question can never truly be answered because there is no way to get a true experiment to discover the causal relationship.

[Von Cichlid]

(09-15-2020, 04:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Interesting point, although I don't think it's as universal as that.  I will say that being white is the "next best thing" to being Chinese if you're in China or Japanese if you're in Japan.  I'm sure someone here will try and spin that statement way beyond what I'm actually saying.  The real question is why would that be the case?  Is it as simple as western culture being so dominant?  The follow up to that would be why is western culture so dominant?  Ans I suppose the follow up to that would be is that a bad thing?

You are mentioning a very hard truth that simply cannot be discussed with rationality because of how triggering the concept might be to many people. 

Unless there are equal percentages of every culture in every place, an impossible proposition, then there will necessarily be a dominate culture.  Would anyone who is really honest with themselves rather it be anything other than Western culture?  There are countries in this world with other dominant cultures.  These countries are emphatically not the ones where people are risking life and limb to make into these countries.  

Like Marvin Lewis use to say, "I see a lot better than I hear."  Despite what I hear about the USA being such a terrible place, there are still many who would risk everything to be a part of it.    

[BmorePat87]

(09-15-2020, 05:52 PM)michaelsean Wrote: “Ginger” more than anything I would imagine.

[*jason*]

(09-15-2020, 08:43 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: You are mentioning a very hard truth that simply cannot be discussed with rationality because of how triggering the concept might be to many people. 

Unless there are equal percentages of every culture in every place, an impossible proposition, then there will necessarily be a dominate culture.  Would anyone who is really honest with themselves rather it be anything other than Western culture?  There are countries in this world with other dominant cultures.  These countries are emphatically not the ones where people are risking life and limb to make into these countries.  

Like Marvin Lewis use to say, "I see a lot better than I hear."  Despite what I hear about the USA being such a terrible place, there are still many who would risk everything to be a part of it.    

I think nowadays they are just bring caught and detained here on their way to Canada though. The journey just got that much harder.

I'm kidding of course.

[Von Cichlid]

(09-15-2020, 09:49 PM)jason Wrote: I think nowadays they are just bring caught and detained here on their way to Canada though. The journey just got that much harder.

I'm kidding of course.

Also, they will have to make it through DMZ's in Portland, Chicago, and Detroit.  

[fredtoast]

(09-15-2020, 05:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Just share with the class what you meant by "people like Blake" when accusing me of hyprocrisy...or not, folks know. 

I already did.

(09-15-2020, 05:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There are lots of reasons people attack alleged victims of improper behavior by the police.  Some are blindly Pro-Trump.  Some are blindly Pro-police.  And some are racists.  

Some people are so blindly pro-police that they support police officers who violate citizens rights and complain about any citizen who "escalates the situation" by objecting to an officer violating his rights.

So, yeah, "folks know".

[fredtoast]

(09-15-2020, 08:43 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: You are mentioning a very hard truth that simply cannot be discussed with rationality because of how triggering the concept might be to many people. 

Unless there are equal percentages of every culture in every place, an impossible proposition, then there will necessarily be a dominate culture.  Would anyone who is really honest with themselves rather it be anything other than Western culture?  There are countries in this world with other dominant cultures.  These countries are emphatically not the ones where people are risking life and limb to make into these countries.  

Like Marvin Lewis use to say, "I see a lot better than I hear."  Despite what I hear about the USA being such a terrible place, there are still many who would risk everything to be a part of it.    

No one is saying there is anything wrong with Western Culture.  The problems with "white privilege" is not that western culture is bad.  The problem lies with issues like racial profiling and discrimination.

You are not saying that racial profiling and discrimination are necessary parts of Western Culture, are you? 

The "attack on Western Culture" line is often just a red herring for people who want to deny the existence of racial profiling and other forms of discrimination against minorities.






**EDIT**  Actually the issue of "colonialism" is often tied with "western culture".  In that case some people who discuss white privilege are actually attacking Western Culture.  But I am not one who think colonialism defines Western Culture.

[*bfine32*]

(09-16-2020, 12:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I already did.





Some people are so blindly pro-police that they support police officers who violate citizens rights and complain about any citizen who "escalates the situation" by objecting to an officer violating his rights.

So, yeah, "folks know".

Of course your "answer" is explaining "people like me".

What did you mean by "People like Blake" when pointing to my superposed hypocrisy?

It's OK. Not one person expects you to own it.

[fredtoast]

(09-16-2020, 01:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What did you mean by "People like Blake" when pointing to my superposed hypocrisy?

Since I am having to repeat myself I will highlight the answer for you

(09-15-2020, 05:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There are lots of reasons people attack alleged victims of improper behavior by the police. 

That is Jacob Blake.

[Dill]

(09-15-2020, 03:55 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Probably because the term is racially charged.  The correct term would be majority privilege.  If a white person moved to China, Japan, Kenya, Saudi Arabia or anywhere else with a extremely low white population they wouldn't have white privilege there. 
 

Yes they would.

[Dill]

(09-15-2020, 03:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have heard an awful lot of people complaining about being called racist, but I am not really seeing it. I have even heard some people here in this forum complain about being called racist, but I have not seen it.  On Fox I saw Greg Gutfeld say that he was not going to watch NFL games because he did not want to see "overpaid hypocrites (Yes, Gutfeld actually called someone else an 'overpaid hypocrite') calling him a racist".  So when I watched the NFL games and I did not see anyone calling Gutfeld or anyone else a racist.  

Seems like just another case of people creating their own victim card.  

So has anyone here actually been called a racist?  I don't mean just people complaining about or disagreeing with your opinion on social justice issues.  I mean someone actually directly calling you a racist.

I've been called "racist" in this forum a couple of times.

Or maybe better to say I was called a "real" racist.

That is the post-racist term for white people who raise and analyze race issues, especially systemic racism.

https://www.leader-call.com/opinion/columnists/will-the-real-racists-please-stand-up/article_711a0a7e-d359-11ea-9e70-2f795d550909.html
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/heather-macdonald-donald-trump-not-racist.html

"The Limits of Trump’s White Identity Politics: The president is casting Democrats as the real racists to energize his base, but in doing so he’s hindering his capacity to reach beyond it." https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/trump-2020-democrats-racism/596155/

For the Trump coalition, “an important part of their worldview is victimization and being aggrieved,” says the Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher, who has extensively studied attitudes on race relations. “This continues the victimization narrative.”

Trump’s insistence that he is not bigoted—and that critics such as Democratic Representative Elijah Cummings of Maryland are the real racists—echoes his response to the allegations of sexual misconduct against Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh during his contentious nomination in the fall. Trump responded to those accusations not by empathizing with women, but by declaring: “It is a very scary time for young men in America, where you can be guilty of something you may not be guilty of.”

Both then and now, Trump advanced the same argument: The problem isn’t discrimination against minorities or women pressing for equal treatment; it is that those groups are unfairly accusing white people and men of treating them inequitably.

But otherwise you are right, Fred. Here and around the nation all kinds of white people who have never been called racist are tired of being called racist.