Polish president slams fake news CNN

[Dill]

(07-07-2017, 05:05 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I love how quickly the original point of this thread, that a major news network was called out by a world leader for pushing something that is instantly and easily *verified* false, changed.... to authoritarianism.

All because someone one response into the thread wanted to derail it off topic to avoid facing some truths they don't want to face.

The topic has not changed at all. Authoritarian leaders, from Hitler to Putin, "call out" the free press in part as a means of deligitimizing opposition points of view. 

The blanket term "fake news" is one tactic in the war between authoritarian leaders and the free press in liberal democracies. In the US case, it seems to involve a plain double standard. Trump tweets false information and innuendo on a daily basis. But he holds the MSM to a different standard--sort of.  E.g. what he calls "fake news," our intel agencies call "fact." If he can get voters to agree, then his accountability is diminished.

There is a similar situation in Poland. For people who prefer democracy to authoritarianism, the problem there is not that some reporter might have sent a little TWEET about a matter of protocol, but that the state has begun to limit and censor the free press. This is part of a pattern, which we see in countries like Hungary now, and Russia, and Turkey among others.

If Trump could control this thread, he would not let me make these points. He would encourage everyone to focus on a "fake news" tidbit and on that basis also distrust reports of Russian interference in our elections and obstruction of justice and the absence of any evidence of widespread voter fraud.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-07-2017, 10:31 PM)Dill Wrote: The topic has not changed at all. Authoritarian leaders, from Hitler to Putin, "call out" the free press in part as a means of deligitimizing opposition points of view. 

The blanket term "fake news" is one tactic in the war between authoritarian leaders and the free press in liberal democracies. In the US case, it seems to involve a plain double standard. Trump tweets false information and innuendo on a daily basis. But he holds the MSM to a different standard--sort of.  E.g. what he calls "fake news," our intel agencies call "fact." If he can get voters to agree, then his accountability is diminished.

There is a similar situation in Poland. For people who prefer democracy to authoritarianism, the problem there is not that some reporter might have sent a little TWEET about a matter of protocol, but that the state has begun to limit and censor the free press. This is part of a pattern, which we see in countries like Hungary now, and Russia, and Turkey among others.

If Trump could control this thread, he would not let me make these points. He would encourage everyone to focus on a "fake news" tidbit and on that basis also distrust reports of Russian interference in our elections and obstruction of justice and the absence of any evidence of widespread voter fraud.

So you're saying that the Polish president should have ignored CNN lying about his wife refusing to shake the US President's hand? Possibly to the detriment of the country he represents relations to an ally who is the most powerful country in the world?

[Dill]

(07-07-2017, 10:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: So you're saying that the Polish president should have ignored CNN lying about his wife refusing to shake the US President's hand? Possibly to the detriment of the country he represents relations to an ally who is the most powerful country in the world?

Absolutely. We are talking about someone who represents a country, not some random guy defending his wife from an insult in a bar.

That was a meaningless tweet about a trivial matter. There was/is no "detriment" to Poland because of that tweet. How in the world could it ever affect relations between the two countries?  Hard to imagine the leader of Britain or France or Germany or Japan or the US before Trump commenting on such trivia, other than to quickly clear it up and move on. But calling the tweet "fake News" as a rallying cry against the press in general is very disturbing. The rush to conflate this incident with reporting about Trump in general, as if it were all similarly erroneous, is what is really newsworthy about this incident.

A far more urgent matter is how Kaczynski and his party has been dismantling the free press in Poland. That could affect relations between Poland and the rest of the world, including the US.  It will give conspiracy theories greater traction in Poland. Neither he nor Trump want you talking about that.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-07-2017, 11:08 PM)Dill Wrote: Absolutely. We are talking about someone who represents a country, not some random guy defending his wife from an insult in a bar.

That was a meaningless tweet about a trivial matter. There was/is no "detriment" to Poland because of that tweet. How in the world could it ever affect relations between the two countries?  Hard to imagine the leader of Britain or France or Germany or Japan or the US before Trump commenting on such trivia, other than to quickly clear it up and move on. But calling the tweet "fake News" as a rallying cry against the press in general is very disturbing. The rush to conflate this incident with reporting about Trump in general, as if it were all similarly erroneous, is what is really newsworthy about this incident.

A far more urgent matter is how Kaczynski and his party has been dismantling the free press in Poland. That could affect relations between Poland and the rest of the world, including the US.  It will give conspiracy theories greater traction in Poland. Neither he nor Trump want you talking about that.

So when Trump, being the manchild that he is, cries and asks the Polish President "why didn't you speak up for me when they were spreading lies? I thought we were allies" he is just supposed to say "Sorry, Hitler and Putin and blahblah, thus I can't stand for the truth. Go F yourself." ???

That makes no sense. You're defending poor "journalism", which is more and more frequently using national media to push lies or simply unresearched re-sharing. That's how we got articles like how the First Lady was a hooker, 17 Intelligence Agencies Agreed, Polish President's Wife Handshake, etc.

I support freedom of the press, but that doesn't mean the press has the freedom to lie their way to their agenda. Do your job properly and there would be no problem. Just like every other person in society.

[*Nately120*]

CNN is fake, Fox is fake. Damn, it's like people would rather hear a bunch of nonsense that fits their own viewpoint than hear the unpleasant truths of the world as it is. Capitalism wrecked the news. Or did people wreck the news because they just love being told what they want to hear so badly?

[Dill]

(07-08-2017, 07:32 PM)"TheLeonardLeap Wrote: So when Trump, being the manchild that he is, cries and asks the Polish President "why didn't you speak up for me when they were spreading lies? I thought we were allies" he is just supposed to say "Sorry, Hitler and Putin and blahblah, thus I can't stand for the truth. Go F yourself." ???

That makes no sense. You're defending poor "journalism", which is more and more frequently using national media to push lies or simply unresearched re-sharing. That's how we got articles like how the First Lady was a hooker, 17 Intelligence Agencies Agreed, Polish President's Wife Handshake, etc.

I support freedom of the press, but that doesn't mean the press has the freedom to lie their way to their agenda. Do your job properly and there would be no problem. Just like every other person in society.

Leonard, the point of your first paragraph is not clear to me. Are you saying Trump should expect the Polish president to defend him against lies? All heads of state are supposed to be doing that for Trump? Should he be defending each of them against "lies" in their press?

In any case, Trump's own behavior is difficult to defend. What he calls "lies" are not what the rest of the world calls lies. And what he calls "Truth" is not what the rest of the world calls truth either. Remember the 3-5 million fraudulent votes supposedly cast in the election? So his constantly calling responsible news organizations "fake news" does not proceed from some desire for higher standards and objectivity.  He does not vet his sources nearly as carefully as every major news organization does, even Fox. To repeat the point I made above, Trump is angriest at the press exactly when they do their job properly.

I am aware of an article in which an NYT reporter apologizes for calling Melania a hooker in a private conversation. I am not aware of any "journalism" claiming that she is a hooker. What article are you referring to? Trump's protocol error was in a "tweet," and the sort of minor error that occurs with all presidents. So far as I know, the US intelligence community is unanimous in agreement that Russia interfered with the US election, even if only four were directly involved in tracking and assessment. That is exactly what newspapers should be reporting--"doing their job properly" as you put it.

The really important news, most crucial for national defense, is not what a reporter called Melania at a party nor what a journalist tweeted about a handshake error, nor even whether all 17 intel agencies tracked the Russian interference.

FAR AND AWAY the more important issue to be addressed by the press right now is Trump's continued refusal to accept the intel community's assessment and his continued dissing of US intel agencies while speaking on a world stage. This division signals weakness and opportunity to US enemies who don't care a fig whether Melania was a Hooker or Trump missed a handshake. 

The "agenda" of the press should be to report this concerning behavior. And the agenda of US citizens should be to critically distinguish between trivial and important news matters.

[Rotobeast]

(07-07-2017, 04:13 PM)GMDino Wrote: Anywhere where:


As determined by "libertarians".  

[GMDino]

(07-07-2017, 05:50 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: That link looks like a setup to steal your identity.

Nah.

http://melanoidnation.org/about-us/

Quote:OUR STORY
The Melanoid Nation Foundation (MNF) is a non-profit organization founded to advocate for justice and human rights for Melanoid people of African descent who have been adversely affected by systematic racism.

We use the classification of Melanoid ( aka Melanese and Melano) to eliminate geographical boundaries when describing people of African descent who are in need of justice.




OUR MISSION

• Ensure an economic empowerment base for Melanoid people who have been historically disempowered economically by systematic racism
• Counter negative media propaganda and campaigns against Melanoid people globally
• Ensure quality education for Melanoid people globally
• Ensure overall human rights for Melanoid people worldwide
  

[GMDino]

http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26/worldwide-few-confident-in-trump-or-his-policies/

[StLucieBengal]

(07-12-2017, 10:51 AM)GMDino Wrote:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26/worldwide-few-confident-in-trump-or-his-policies/

who cares what other countries believe? The need us and will work with trump. The fact is that it's "cool" to be anti trump now because of the media push.

[GMDino]

(07-12-2017, 11:01 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: who cares what other countries believe?   The need us and will work with trump.   The fact is that it's "cool" to be anti trump now because of the media push.

The entire thread is about what another country believes...or at least their leader.

"Polish President slams fake news CNN"

[Arturo Bandini]

I know a lot of polish people who absolutely regret that they didn't vote and let this "president" win.

Far rights bigots who supposely are catholics dudes but they hate everything that breathes in this planet.