President Donald Trump

[6andcounting]

Not to be too political, but this the politics sub afterall so I might as well ask. What are everyone's thoughts on the former President? Everyone please post your responses below. I'm not coming here with any agenda; I just wanted to give everyone the chance to voice their opinion. All are welcome to answer; I think this can be a very productive discussion.

[*pally*]

The former President is one that currently cannot be discussed with any reasonableness in a written form, especially among people that are essentially strangers. Hell, it can barely be discussed in person among good friends. People, on this topic, retreat to their pre-established corners and come out with the sole intention of convincing everyone else that they are wrong and that the person posting is right. The "discussion" for lack of a better term will dissolve into an argument within a couple of posts.

Nothing will be served other than giving everyone a headache.

[BigPapaKain]

Go to any of the front page topics. You'll find plenty of thoughts many have about the guy.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

A lifetime Democrat that renounced his membership when a black man became President, then played to the lowest realms of the Republican base while pretending to be a Republican. That doesn't make him a racist but every racist that I know is a staunch Trump supporter for some reason. Go figure.

He's a lying, science denying, illiterate dunce with an extremely fragile ego that's constantly embroiled in grifting and corruption while massively in debt with loans coming due. Basically, he's everything you shouldn't want in a President but the current White House occupant has a son with a laptop so almost half of the country thinks that none of Trump's faults matter. He spent every waking day trying to rile up or piss off over half of the country and wants to act shocked when those people voted him out of office, so he tried to overthrow the will of the American people. Seriously . . . **** that guy.

[CKwi88]

A guy who conned his way into being the most powerful man in the world.

It's pretty impressive, albeit terrifying.

He was/is like a maliciously ignorant version of George W Bush. He was entirely out of his element, and rather than try and adapt himself to the realities of being President, he wanted to bend the presidency to his will.

I get why people voted for him the first time. Hell, I voted libertarian a couple times because I wanted (or thought I wanted) a shake-up to the system. But Trump failed ever so spectacularly as POTUS, in just about every way imaginable. The only thing scarier than his leadership is the fact that there is a significant amount of people that still can't see him for what he is.

[GMDino]

(07-23-2022, 09:10 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Not to be too political, but this the politics sub afterall so I might as well ask. What are everyone's thoughts on the former President? Everyone please post your responses below. I'm not coming here with any agenda; I just wanted to give everyone the chance to voice their opinion. All are welcome to answer; I think this can be a very productive discussion.

[Belsnickel]

I'll just leave this here from another thread:

(07-23-2022, 10:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote:

• Reversed valuable conservation and environmental regulations that set back out efforts to combat climate change and endangered our water and air.
• Damaged our international relations by withdrawing from agreements needlessly.
• Damaged the peace effort in Israel with his naming Jerusalem as the capital.
• Engaged in a poorly thought out trade war that harmed out allied nations and not just China.
• Elevated the DPRK on the world stage for no gain.
• At a time of economic growth he signed off on corporate tax cuts and cuts for the wealthy that grows our nation's debt.
• Refused to send timely and adequate aid to U.S. citizens, primarily of color, during a natural disaster and was quick to help citizens Texas when they faced less destruction.
• Appointed his children to top level positions even though they had zero qualifications to be in them, and disregarded concerns over their security clearances.
• Surrounded himself with white nationalists.
• Consistently lied about his own personal wealth/tax returns.
• The "Pocahontas" thing.
• Countless violations of the Hatch Act in his administration that were ignored.
• Not handling his business dealings properly while POTUS, thus being open to corrupt actions (including overcharging the government for personnel staying in the hotels).
• Appointed other unqualified people to important positions in the Executive, not just his children.
• Exposed classified information to the Russian ambassador putting intelligence assets of other nations at risk.
• Eliminated a pandemic early warning system put in place by the Obama administration that could have helped prevent the seriousness of COVID.
• Appointed unqualified judges to the federal bench.
• "Shithole countries."
• Had LEOs assault clergy and peaceful protesters at their own church for a photo-op.
• Then, of course, we have the attempted effort to blackmail the Ukrainian president into manufacturing evidence of corruption involving Joe Biden by withholding aid that had been approved by Congress. Which, by the way, there was no argument that he had done this. The only argument was whether it deserved he be removed from office. That was what the GOP said.
  

And of course, my primary reason, he tried to undermine and overturn an election and seemingly cheered on the violent attempt to do so by his supporters. This one is the biggest reason he would never get my vote.

All of this is just off the top of my head. There were more shitty things, but this is a pretty substantial list.

[Arturo Bandini]

Worst human being I've ever seen. Just a spoiled billionnaire kid.

The most stupid at this political rank too.

[Leon]

(07-23-2022, 11:36 PM)pally Wrote: The former President is one that currently cannot be discussed with any reasonableness in a written form, especially among people that are essentially strangers.  Hell, it can barely be discussed in person among good friends.  People, on this topic, retreat to their pre-established corners and come out with the sole intention of convincing everyone else that they are wrong and that the person posting is right. The "discussion" for lack of a better term will dissolve into an argument within a couple of posts.

Nothing will be served other than giving everyone a headache.

it hard to have discussions about trump because as soon as you say your a trump supporter, you gets acused of being a racist, ignorant, homophobic, qanon all those kind of things. it kills the talk from the gate because there just looking to insult and attack and aren't interested in why people support trump. theyre literally an important part of the bigger picture because there only focused on hating us.

it's to bad but it's what happenes every tome. i share my honest thoughts on here and i get attacked and called childish names and acused of being in a cult. theres only been a couple people who actually were willing to talk about stuff with me instead of just going straight to insults or pretty much saying theyre better than me or other trump supporters. this is why trumps base stays so strong. that type of treatment brings us closer together and keeps reminding us how little the other side thinks of us and dismisses us.

[Leon]

(07-24-2022, 12:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'll just leave this here from another thread:

you can make lists like this for clinton and obama and bush to. 

[Leon]

(07-24-2022, 12:44 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Worst human being I've ever seen. Just a spoiled billionnaire kid.

The most stupid at this political rank too.

you think trump is worse than hitler or pedophiles or serial killers?

this is what i'm talking about. people always want to take it to extremes with trump.

[Belsnickel]

(07-24-2022, 06:07 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: you can make lists like this for clinton and obama and bush to. 

I could for Biden as well. However, there aren't as many things on those lists that are objectively bad. This is the biggest issue with our current political environment. Most of the things on that list are objectively bad things. They aren't rooted in ideological differences. Yet, somehow, they are made political in a way where it depends on which side of the aisle you are one for them to be considered bad. People defending Trump for things like exposing our allies' intelligence assets or extorting another world leader illegally should be something that any person would consider wrong to do. Yet we have a substantial minority that is extremely vocal defending it.

[Leon]

(07-24-2022, 06:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I could for Biden as well. However, there aren't as many things on those lists that are objectively bad. This is the biggest issue with our current political environment. Most of the things on that list are objectively bad things. They aren't rooted in ideological differences. Yet, somehow, they are made political in a way where it depends on which side of the aisle you are one for them to be considered bad. People defending Trump for things like exposing our allies' intelligence assets or extorting another world leader illegally should be something that any person would consider wrong to do. Yet we have a substantial minority that is extremely vocal defending it.

people wanna talk about trumps foreign aid being held for a very short amount of time but then have no issues when aid is given to very bad actors and has for a long time. do you think the US gets anything for that? the selective outrage is hard to take it being serious. presidents have always done what they needed to do and all have done stuff that can be considered shady or dealing behind the curtains.

[*pally*]

(07-24-2022, 06:02 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: it hard to have discussions about trump because as soon as you say your a trump supporter, you gets acused of being a racist, ignorant, homophobic, qanon all those kind of things. it kills the talk from the gate because there just looking to insult and attack and aren't interested in why people support trump. theyre literally an important part of the bigger picture because there only focused on hating us.

it's to bad but it's what happenes every tome. i share my honest thoughts on here and i get attacked and called childish names and acused of being in a cult. theres only been a couple people who actually were willing to talk about stuff with me instead of just going straight to insults or pretty much saying theyre better than me or other trump supporters. this is why trumps base stays so strong. that type of treatment brings us closer together and keeps reminding us how little the other side thinks of us and dismisses us.

You all get called a cult precisely because you and he fail to acknowledge and denounce those racist, ignorant, homophobic, qanon, misogynistic, fake religious, neo nazi, and all sorts of other deplorable (yes I used that word) people who dominate the Trump base.  The Trump base defends them, gives them cover, lies for them ie it sure as heck wasn't ANTIFA who stormed the Capitol.  The base follows Trump around from rally to rally cheering on his every word regardless of how crazy or outrageous it is. They then echo that every word like it is a word from above. They elevate him to deity level.  They NEVER acknowledge his all too obvious human failings.  Hundreds have followed his siren's call right into jail.  They are willing to give him their last dime despite his claims of being a billionaire (why does he need YOUR money).  He can do no wrong for his supporters.  The Republican Party has now the Trump Party and if you are someone who doesn't follow him with religious ferver you kick THEM out of your party.  American democracy is built on loyalty to ideas not a man.  You are willing to put Democracy on death watch because he can't admit he lost the 2020 election by a bigger "landslide" (his word not mine) than he won the 2016 election with. 

Until you and his other supporters are capable of understanding who he is and what his words and actions have caused, you will be lumped in with everyone one of those people that should be denounced.  
When you and others manage to

[Belsnickel]

(07-24-2022, 07:18 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: people wanna talk about trumps foreign aid being held for a very short amount of time but then have no issues when aid is given to very bad actors and has for a long time. do you think the US gets anything for that? the selective outrage is hard to take it being serious. presidents have always done what they needed to do and all have done stuff that can be considered shady or dealing behind the curtains.

Have no issues, huh? Yeah, I would think again. You're not talking to someone ignorant to this sort of thing. I have a long history of denouncing our friendly relationships with places like, for example, Saudi Arabia. You seem to be missing that the aid was withheld illegally because Congress had already voted to send the aid on so Trump had no discretion over it. On top of that, he was extorting the Ukrainian president for his own personal gains. That is corruption and should be denounced by everyone. Just as any instance of corruption should be. I am 100% anti-corruption and if any elected official or bureaucrat is caught acting in a corrupt manner, I will want them out of office/fired/in prison.

None of this goes to the biggest problem with your post, though, and that is the attempt to draw false equivalencies. Has every administration had shady dealings? 100%. But none of them were to the extreme of the Trump administration. None of them. There have been worse presidents in my book, but Trump has been the most corrupt.

[Leon]

(07-24-2022, 07:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Have no issues, huh? Yeah, I would think again. You're not talking to someone ignorant to this sort of thing. I have a long history of denouncing our friendly relationships with places like, for example, Saudi Arabia. You seem to be missing that the aid was withheld illegally because Congress had already voted to send the aid on so Trump had no discretion over it. On top of that, he was extorting the Ukrainian president for his own personal gains. That is corruption and should be denounced by everyone. Just as any instance of corruption should be. I am 100% anti-corruption and if any elected official or bureaucrat is caught acting in a corrupt manner, I will want them out of office/fired/in prison.

None of this goes to the biggest problem with your post, though, and that is the attempt to draw false equivalencies. Has every administration had shady dealings? 100%. But none of them were to the extreme of the Trump administration. None of them. There have been worse presidents in my book, but Trump has been the most corrupt.

watergate, iran contra, fast and furious, clinton being a sexual predator, invading iraq. all these things are far worse than trump with foreign aid. but yet people want trump is held to a special standard where he's somehow more corrupt than all those guys. 

[Belsnickel]

(07-24-2022, 08:06 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: watergate, iran contra, fast and furious, clinton being a sexual predator, invading iraq. all these things are far worse than trump with foreign aid. but yet people want trump is held to a special standard where he's somehow more corrupt than all those guys. 

Trump has more sexual assault claims against him than Clinton, and that isn't me defending Clinton. Aside from that, I could point to a foreign policy screw up to match every one of those things, as well. It wasn't just the Ukrainian aid that was objectively bad.

[Leon]

(07-24-2022, 08:10 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Trump has more sexual assault claims against him than Clinton, and that isn't me defending Clinton. Aside from that, I could point to a foreign policy screw up to match every one of those things, as well. It wasn't just the Ukrainian aid that was objectively bad.

the things you would call screwups are things that most of on this side of the aisle think different about. 

plus, how do you determine whats objectively bad. whats your foundation for saying that. what is your starting point that ain't subjective and gives all objectivity.

[basballguy]

lol

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-24-2022, 07:46 PM)pally Wrote: You all get called a cult precisely because you and he fail to acknowledge and denounce those racist, ignorant, homophobic, qanon, misogynistic, fake religious, neo nazi, and all sorts of other deplorable (yes I used that word) people who dominate the Trump base.  The Trump base defends them, gives them cover, lies for them ie it sure as heck wasn't ANTIFA who stormed the Capitol.  The base follows Trump around from rally to rally cheering on his every word regardless of how crazy or outrageous it is. They then echo that every word like it is a word from above. They elevate him to deity level.  They NEVER acknowledge his all too obvious human failings.  Hundreds have followed his siren's call right into jail.  They are willing to give him their last dime despite his claims of being a billionaire (why does he need YOUR money).  He can do no wrong for his supporters.  The Republican Party has now the Trump Party and if you are someone who doesn't follow him with religious ferver you kick THEM out of your party.  American democracy is built on loyalty to ideas not a man.  You are willing to put Democracy on death watch because he can't admit he lost the 2020 election by a bigger "landslide" (his word not mine) than he won the 2016 election with. 

Until you and his other supporters are capable of understanding who he is and what his words and actions have caused, you will be lumped in with everyone one of those people that should be denounced.  
When you and others manage to

Who told you that THOSE people dominate the Trump base? 
Lemme guess??? MSM told you that.... wait, that actually sounds like a straight up MSM article....

I think a silent majority dominates the Trump base, and those types are just tolerated. You acting like Democrats don't have deplorable groups that they'd rather not be associated to as well. What an oxymoron