President Donald Trump

[Belsnickel]

(07-24-2022, 08:17 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: the things you would call screwups are things that most of on this side of the aisle think different about. 

plus, how do you determine whats objectively bad. whats your foundation for saying that. what is your starting point that ain't subjective and gives all objectivity.

That's the thing to me that is baffling. Some of those things, like the poorly executed trade war with China, are actually contrary to conservative thought. Yet the GOP was somehow on board with it because...Trump? I don't understand how the right wing, "conservative" party was willing to throw out their ideals for the biggest grifter in U.S. politics.

Anyway, I'm not going to bother explaining why more of those things were objectively bad. If you can't understand why exposing an ally's intelligence assets to a nation that is very much not-an-ally is objectively bad, then the chances this conversation would occur in good faith are very close to zero.

[Belsnickel]

(07-25-2022, 12:05 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Who told you that THOSE people dominate the Trump base? 
Lemme guess??? MSM told you that.... wait, that actually sounds like a straight up MSM article....

I think a silent majority dominates the Trump base, and those types are just tolerated. You acting like Democrats don't have deplorable groups that they'd rather not be associated to as well. What an oxymoron

The Trump base is neither silent nor a majority. They may make up the majority of the Republican voters right now, but that is far from the majority of the country. Plus they are some of the loudest people.

[Arturo Bandini]

(07-24-2022, 06:10 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: you think trump is worse than hitler or pedophiles or serial killers?

this is what i'm talking about. people always want to take it to extremes with trump.

Same pack of POS.

This the best you had to compare ? Do you think Trump is worse than Hitler ... LMFAO. The bar is low.

[hollodero]

(07-24-2022, 08:17 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: plus, how do you determine whats objectively bad. whats your foundation for saying that. what is your starting point that ain't subjective and gives all objectivity.

Oh that's the next really convenient point. Oh look, no one can ever say something is objectively bad, everything is subjective, and that is the basis to claim that Trump did good and no one could ever possibly argue against it.

- Imho you need to sharpen your act a bit to increase credibility. I can not imagine a real Trump supporter using this line. They rather fall into the objectively good camp.

[Belsnickel]

(07-25-2022, 09:55 AM)hollodero Wrote: Oh that's the next really convenient point. Oh look, no one can ever say something is objectively bad, everything is subjective, and that is the basis to claim that Trump did good and no one could ever possibly argue against it.

- Imho you need to sharpen your act a bit to increase credibility. I can not imagine a real Trump supporter using this line. They rather fall into the objectively good camp.

Don't you remember "alternative facts?" They don't understand the concepts of subjective and objective.

[*Nately120*]

(07-25-2022, 09:58 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Don't you remember "alternative facts?" They don't understand the concepts of subjective and objective.

Facts don't care about your feelings, alternative facts however, care about mine. 

[hollodero]

(07-25-2022, 09:58 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Don't you remember "alternative facts?" They don't understand the concepts of subjective and objective.

I know. Most people have their take, hold it to be objectively true and then look for confirmation. I don't even think that's a party specific thing.

Seldomly will anyone thinking this way ever expand on terms like subjective or objective, for those minds there's usually only objective/true/informed (my take) and subjective/wrong/misled (different take) and that's that. It's what made me say Mr. TigerBlood needs to sharpen his act a bit to be a believable actor. Most ardent Trump supporters would answer "stop watching CNN" instead of making a point questioning the concept of objectivity.

[CJD]

(07-25-2022, 12:05 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Who told you that THOSE people dominate the Trump base? 
Lemme guess??? MSM told you that.... wait, that actually sounds like a straight up MSM article....

I think a silent majority dominates the Trump base, and those types are just tolerated. You acting like Democrats don't have deplorable groups that they'd rather not be associated to as well. What an oxymoron

The Trump base seems to be very similar to the people who participated in Gamergate. The movement was ostensibly about "ethics in games journalism," at least according to the people in the movement, but they couldn't seem to stop harassing and threatening innocent women who happened to write about or make video games.

It seemed to be made up of two different kinds of people:
1. The people who didn't really care about ethics in games journalism and just wanted to harass and threaten women, but liked that there was a movement that they could use as cover.
2. The "cover." People who, to some extent, cared about ethics in games journalism and wanted there to be some sort of change (it's unclear what that change would be. It's most likely that they were just frustrated and were struggling with nostalgia vs a changing world) but ended up spending most of their time swearing that they were not part of that first group and how it was unfair to compare them to that first group.

By all accounts, group 2 seemed to be much larger than group 1.

The problem was GamerGate was created by and was in service of the first group, not the second group. The movement had no end game involving ethics in games journalism. They had no suggestions for reform, they had no beliefs that were actionable. They just wanted to make the lives of a group of women in gaming as miserable as possible for as long as possible. By participating in "the discourse," the second group was, wittingly or not, giving the first group more power and, more importantly, an excuse and shield for their actions.

If you tried to criticize someone you suspect is part of group 1, they will simply disappear into group 2, who would then defend that person from criticism. Alternatively, if you criticize someone from group 2 for being part of the movement that is actively harassing and threatening women on the internet, they can simply claim "the only reason you won't take me seriously is because you, erroneously, believe that I'm part of group 1."

This symbiotic relationship between group 1 and group 2 is what kept Gamer Gate going for so long. 

And I can't help but see Trump's voting base as having a very similar version of that symbiotic relationship.

It's very possible that you are part of Trump's group 2. But excusing, defending or giving cover to Trump's group 1 is ultimately the biggest service you are providing Trump and his group 1 base. 

A key detail to keep in mind is that no one will ever admit that they're part of group 1, at least not publicly, despite group 1 very clearly and obviously existing. This is the dance that was GamerGate and I see the same thing occurring in Trump's base on a daily basis.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-25-2022, 07:13 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The Trump base is neither silent nor a majority. They may make up the majority of the Republican voters right now, but that is far from the majority of the country. Plus they are some of the loudest people.

Loudest? Who taught them that being loud and outshouting your opponents silences them?? Seems like a page straight out of the Liberals play-book.

(07-25-2022, 09:55 AM)hollodero Wrote: Oh that's the next really convenient point. Oh look, no one can ever say something is objectively bad, everything is subjective, and that is the basis to claim that Trump did good and no one could ever possibly argue against it.

- Imho you need to sharpen your act a bit to increase credibility. I can not imagine a real Trump supporter using this line. They rather fall into the objectively good camp.

Never met a Trump supporter that thinks he's as perfect as many of the non-Trumpers claim.

(07-25-2022, 09:58 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Don't you remember "alternative facts?" They don't understand the concepts of subjective and objective.

Neither does MSM. It's all about fweelings... It's kinda how the whole term "Snowflakes" started....too many getting their panties in a wad and need a time-out in a safe space to color.

[hollodero]

(07-25-2022, 10:23 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Never met a Trump supporter that thinks he's as perfect as many of the non-Trumpers claim.

Well, most Trump supporters I interacted with, and to be clear there are many fine people amongst them, are really strong in their convictions, that's what I would dare to say. Trump is some sort of genius, like he himself claims, always following a master plan for the good of the country and everyone in it, and whoever doubts that is misinformed and needs to stop watching CNN, that seems to be a common trope.

[Belsnickel]

(07-25-2022, 10:23 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Loudest? Who taught them that being loud and outshouting your opponents silences them?? Seems like a page straight out of the Liberals play-book.

And? Insult liberals all you like, I trash them all the time. Your response also doesn't counter anything I said.

(07-25-2022, 10:23 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Neither does MSM. It's all about fweelings... It's kinda how the whole term "Snowflakes" started....too many getting their panties in a wad and need a time-out in a safe space to color.

Yeah, if there is anything we have learned about the whole "snowflake" thing over the last few years it is that Trump supporters have no right to call anyone that term. Well, unless you live by the "takes one to know one" mantra. I'm also not someone that indulges in corporate media, so these attempts to turn things around on me also fall flat, especially since you admit that Trump supporters lack an understanding of these concepts by saying "neither does MSM."

I'm glad we seem to see eye to eye on these points.

[hollodero]

(07-25-2022, 10:36 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, if there is anything we have learned about the whole "snowflake" thing over the last few years it is that Trump supporters have no right to call anyone that term. Well, unless you live by the "takes one to know one" mantra.

That I found to be true as well. Those who shout snowflakes and safe space the loudest quite often (not always, but often) are those that constantly claim they are silenced and censored and prosecuted and are immediately offended by anyone disagreeing with them or responding to them in their own ways. It seems to be projection more than anything.

EG. Biden is a demnted idiot and people voting for him are too for overlooking it and getting brainwashed by CNN, but how dare you saying something bad about Trump, don't you realize you're disparaging millions of his supporters with these remarks???

[*Nately120*]

Politics is all about feelings. Our culture is a self destructive combination of selfish individualism and manic group think.

[Belsnickel]

(07-25-2022, 11:22 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Politics is all about feelings. Our culture is a self destructive combination of selfish individualism and manic group think.

Our society really is a paradoxical shitshow.

[GMDino]

The whole snowflake thing was also because trump supporters are "alphas".  The men are all "manly" and the women know their roles and place.

That's why you get things like this:



But as others have said "snowflakes" and "safe spaces" backfired on them spectacularly because everything Trump touches dies.

[Leon]

(07-25-2022, 09:55 AM)hollodero Wrote: Oh that's the next really convenient point. Oh look, no one can ever say something is objectively bad, everything is subjective, and that is the basis to claim that Trump did good and no one could ever possibly argue against it.

- Imho you need to sharpen your act a bit to increase credibility. I can not imagine a real Trump supporter using this line. They rather fall into the objectively good camp.

why would you think every single trump supporter thinks exactly bthe same. i think i know why, because then its easier to put them in a box and slap them all with one label. you do realize the trump supporters come from all backgrounds, all education, all areas of life. this is a very dishonest take sir cause we have common ideas and goals but we also have differnces and our own ways of thinking.

also when i talk about knowing anything objective, i'm talking about starting with God. if yoy don't think thats something thats important to most trump supporters, then i'm not sure what your talking about. God is the only way we know something is objective good or bad. if you don't start with God, then your just making up your own standards,

[*Nately120*]

(07-25-2022, 11:40 AM)GMDino Wrote: The whole snowflake thing was also because trump supporters are "alphas".  The men are all "manly" and the women know their roles and place.

That's why you get things like this:



But as others have said "snowflakes" and "safe spaces" backfired on them spectacularly because everything Trump touches dies.

Love that the indoctrination free zone has an elderly obese draft dodgers face pasted on the body of an actor playing a veteran written to illustrate the superficial support our country has for patriotism and veterans. 

[hollodero]

(07-25-2022, 01:06 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: why would you think every single trump supporter thinks exactly bthe same. i think i know why, because then its easier to put them in a box and slap them all with one label. you do realize the trump supporters come from all backgrounds, all education, all areas of life. this is a very dishonest take sir cause we have common ideas and goals but we also have differnces and our own ways of thinking.

also when i talk about knowing anything objective, i'm talking about starting with God. if yoy don't think thats something thats important to most trump supporters, then i'm not sure what your talking about.

Even as fake persona you can not make this point after quite wrongly scolding me for thinking Trump supporters are all the same. If they are not, then I have to assume I can not just slap a label like "religious" on them. Which I don't, I think quite many don't give a damn about God. The fact they support a serial adulterer and very un-christian figure that could rather watch a camel go through a needle's eye than to reach heaven alone seems to be a clue.

That being said, when your persona turns to God I lose interest.

[CJD]

(07-25-2022, 01:06 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: why would you think every single trump supporter thinks exactly bthe same. i think i know why, because then its easier to put them in a box and slap them all with one label. you do realize the trump supporters come from all backgrounds, all education, all areas of life. this is a very dishonest take sir cause we have common ideas and goals but we also have differnces and our own ways of thinking.

also when i talk about knowing anything objective, i'm talking about starting with God. if yoy don't think thats something thats important to most trump supporters, then i'm not sure what your talking about. God is the only way we know something is objective good or bad. if you don't start with God, then your just making up your own standards,

But "starting with God," as you call it, is just your own standard that you, or at least Christianity as a whole, decided upon. 

[Leon]

(07-25-2022, 01:37 PM)hollodero Wrote: Even as fake persona you can not make this point after quite wrongly scolding me for thinking Trump supporters are all the same. If they are not, then I have to assume I can not just slap a label like "religious" on them. Which I don't, I think quite many don't give a damn about God. The fact they support a serial adulterer and very un-christian figure that could rather watch a camel go through a needle's eye than to reach heaven alone seems to be a clue.

That being said, when your persona turns to God I lose interest.

and you lose me when you automatic go to insults. it seems like its easier for you to belittle someone so then you dont have to do the work of actually looking at what i'm saying to hard. this seems to be common around here and i dont know why its allowed but its not my call. i never insulted you. i tried to explain and you would rather belittle me.