Proof of evolution that you can find on your body

[Vas Deferens]

(03-21-2016, 11:33 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: It is like Kanye West saying that he will leave the country if Trump is elected.  He says this like it is a threat and that we would lose something in him leaving.  While the reality is the majority of our country would be more than happy to see him gone.

Says the guy who says he wants to move to Hungary while claiming to make 6 figures part time.  Ok bud. 

[Bengalzona]

(03-21-2016, 11:41 AM)Beaker Wrote: So nobody knows what the bible is really saying because its interpreted differently by everyone?

The whole thing is a cop out by religious people who paint themselves into a corner, then when logic gets applied come up with these excuses to give them a way to weasel out of the obvious inconsistency. The whole "we don't know how long a day is in god's time" only came about when the logic of that happening within 7 24 hour periods was obviously wrong. If god wanted people to understand and follow his word literally, then it should have been written in literal terms that could be easily understood and followed. The fact that people claim it was written by man, but they were the vessel of god should account for this even more strongly.

Well said.

I'm a Christian and I tend to agree with this. If God had wanted people to follow his words literally, there would not be so many (if any) allegorical stories or parables in the Bible. This is to say nothing of prophetic and apocalyptic writings. If the Bible were to be taken literally, it only makes sense it would have been written in a style like IKEA furniture assembly instructions, where the dude in Jakarta can follow it just as easily as the dude in Atlanta and no translation or interpretation is required. That ain't what we got.

As I said, I am a Christian. Therefore, I believe there are 'truths' in the Bible. But I also don't believe that the whole thing was ever intended to be taken as 100% literal truth throughout.

[Bengalzona]

(03-21-2016, 12:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I personally believe evolution is a theory.  What I don't believe is that the word THEORY is a bad thing, as it has been portrayed for self-serving reasons.   It irks me to no end when people say "Evolution is a theory" and act like the word theory brings with it some sort of shaky uncertainty that leaves the door open to (insert your religion here).

A buddy of mine who is more of a Charlie church than me was talking about some new church of his talking about how evolution doesn't disprove god, etc.  He started off by saying "Evolution is a theory" and I rolled my eyes.  His response was "I'm sorry, but it IS a theory" and I pretty much said that I know it's a theory, but the word theory carries more strength than weakness.  

Yes, evolution is a THEORY, but saying it is a theory doesn't mean CHECK-MATE, it's all speculative BS.



Oof, you'll never be able to run for office with that sort of admission there.  

Yes. Evolution is a theory, a theory based upon scientific evidence. It is not a belief.

Creationism is not a theory. It is a belief.

[Bengalzona]

(03-21-2016, 12:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm just hedging my bets by placing all 4,000 or so gods humans have devised on the same level.  Picking 1 out of 4,000 just doesn't seem like a safe enough bet to me.

I tend to think all religions lead back to the same place through different route, at this point in my life. I still claim to be Christian. And I do know that I am supposed to drop bombs on Muslims, get the willies around statues of Hindu gods, make occasional snide comments about Jews, tell Buddhists that they are just a philosophy, not a religion, and vote Republican on every ballot to avoid Hell . But frankly, I get tired of telling people of other beliefs they are wrong. How the heck should I know? Because the Bible tells me so?

No. I'm a Christian because I grew up as a Christian, studied the religion and live in a culture where that religion is the norm. The same can be said for Abdul over in Baghdad or Shem over in Tel Aviv, etc. Christianity is the "right path" for me, just as Islam is the "right path" for Abdul, Judaism is the "right path" for Shem, etc. It is not necessarily for me to say that Abdul, Shem and others are wrong because they do not believe what I choose to believe (highlight the word "choose"), just  as it is not for them say that I am wrong because I don't believe what they choose to believe. This is respecting other beliefs and, to my understanding, there are teachings that support this in all major beliefs.

I think about the allegorical story of the Tower of Babel in Judeo-Christian texts. Most of you know the story. The King of Babel (basically the king of the whole world allegorically) wants to build a tower so tall that he can walk up to the top and go visit God in Heaven (taken as showing God that he is God's equal when all of humanity is incorporated behind him). God, however, is not on board with this plan (Insert "One does not simply WALK into Heaven" meme). After all, it would be impious for dudes just to walk in on Him while He is in the shower. He busts up the tower, makes it so all of the people speak different languages and scatters them to the four corners of the Earth. According to the Bible, God had given humans the mandate to go forth, multiply, and fill the world in the allegorical story of the Garden of Eden. Instead, they got together in one place to build a building to go visit Him. So he makes them all speak different different languages so they don't want to hang around each other anymore. The overall religious moral of the story is obedience: do what God tells you to do (The moral is NOT "don't trust big government and charismatic leaders like Obama!!!").

Now, as I stated before, this is an allegorical story. It didn't actually happen. It may have some roots in a story of some ruler building a tower that was too high for the technology of the day to support and it crashed. It also had some roots in the overall theme of individuals leaving a nomadic life and moving to urban life in the cities. It also is believed to have been an explanation of one of the first cities, Babylon (some believe that the "tower" of the story may have been the great ziggurat of Babylon).

But such stories were incorporated into other stories to create a parable to explain certain other things such as: 1) Why can't we just go visit God?, 2) How come all these peoples around here speak different languages? 3) How come all of these people don't live here in one place?, etc. The faith-based answer you are supposed to derive from these questions is, "Because God wants it that way, fool!" (Insert meme of Mr. T saying this). My whole point in bringing this story up is that I think you can add another question to that list: "How come we have different religions?". I would answer, "Because God wants it that way, fool!" This all seems to be part of bigger test to me: How we deal with people who are different than us. In the end, isn't that what ultimately defines us?

I think humans have an instinctual need to seek some power beyond themselves which is expressed in different forms. That instinct provides us comfort when confronted with the unknown. I also believe that instinct is hard-wired into our genes. In contrast, science is our inborn need to confront the unknown and define it through scientific method and means. I believe this need to know the "whys" of things is also instinctual and hard-wired into our genes. In short, we are like toddlers whose curiosity drives us to get up out of bed and find out what is inside that dark closet and religion is the teddy bear we carry for courage while we do it. The problem comes when we elect to just lie in bed in fear clutching the teddy rather than seeing if there is a real cause for that fear.

Incoherent "babbling" finished.

[Beaker]

(03-21-2016, 11:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What is the origin of life from which we have evolved?

Organic molecules that exist in nature.

[Beaker]

(03-21-2016, 11:58 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: So it should be the Law of Evolution?

Nope. A scientific law describes a pattern in nature, but does not offer an explanation. A theory in science is more comprehensive than a law.

[Beaker]

(03-21-2016, 11:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I've said; it is not a textbook. All you have to do is believe (not sure how much more simple it can get) , you are his child not his student. 

As it is written: Man says show me and I'll trust you. God says trust me and I will show you. 

Children especially need concise, clear, non-arbitrary directions. Even more reason if it is god's word that it should be easily understandable and clear to all to reach the same conclusions.

[Sovereign Nation]

(03-22-2016, 02:57 AM)Beaker Wrote: Nope. A scientific law describes a pattern in nature, but does not offer an explanation. A theory in science is more comprehensive than a law.

Oh, I know.  I was just playing on the words a bit.

The person stated that Evolution is as much a theory as Gravity is.

Last I checked, it is called the Law of Gravity, not Theory of Gravity.

So it was a bit of a play there.

[Sovereign Nation]

(03-22-2016, 12:38 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Says the guy who says he wants to move to Hungary while claiming to make 6 figures part time.  Ok bud. 

That is full time.  When I am overseas.  If you are gonna mock, at least represent the facts correctly.

I also said I was contemplating about a move to Hungary, I know people who have done so already and they seem happier.  I am still not quite sold on the idea.  Moving though, has nothing to do with who the president is or will be. 

Again the point is still valid.  If you don't want to live near me, then that would be a win-win, as I wouldn't lose any sleep not living near you.  I don't want your taxes and I wouldn't want my tax money wasted on you. 

On that last part though, you may be very content taking my taxes.

[GMDino]

(03-22-2016, 02:27 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: No. I'm a Christian because I grew up as a Christian, studied the religion and live in a culture where that religion is the norm. The same can be said for Abdul over in Baghdad or Shem over in Tel Aviv, etc. Christianity is the "right path" for me, just as Islam is the "right path" for Abdul, Judaism is the "right path" for Shem, etc. It is not necessarily for me to say that Abdul, Shem and others are wrong because they do not believe what I choose to believe (highlight the word "choose"), just  as it is not for them say that I am wrong because I don't believe what they choose to believe. This is respecting other beliefs and, to my understanding, there are teachings that support this in all major beliefs.

I had this discussion with a friend of mine who found religion and it enveloped his entire person.  

I asked if an omnipotent god wouldn't tailor its message to its audience.  Let the American Indians worship the buffalo, let the Egyptians worship the sun, let whoever worship whatever as long as the "message" of being good people got through.

He told me emphatically that I am completely wrong and the only true religion is his and if people who worshipped those other gods...even if they didn't know about the "true" god...would not be in heaven because they were wrong.

We don't talk much anymore.  

[*bfine32*]

(03-22-2016, 02:59 AM)Beaker Wrote: Children especially need concise, clear, non-arbitrary directions. Even more reason if it is god's word that it should be easily understandable and clear to all to reach the same conclusions.

You might want to raise Robots; everyone does not.

[*bfine32*]

(03-22-2016, 02:56 AM)Beaker Wrote: Organic molecules that exist in nature.

Sounds like an "evolutionist trick". Where did these molecules come from?

[GMDino]

(03-21-2016, 11:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What is the origin of life from which we have evolved?

That is different than evolution and every time evolution is discussed (yes every time) the conversation turn into an "origin of life" debate.

[*bfine32*]

(03-22-2016, 10:30 AM)GMDino Wrote: That is different than evolution and every time evolution is discussed (yes every time) the conversation turn into an "origin of life" debate.

We had to evolve from something didn't we? perhaps it comes up everytime because they are related.

it seems everytime (yes every time) we discuss abortion a women's rights comes up.

[*bfine32*]

(03-22-2016, 02:57 AM)Beaker Wrote: Nope. A scientific law describes a pattern in nature, but does not offer an explanation. A theory in science is more comprehensive than a law.

There's also this part you left out:

 A theory may become obsolete with time and be replaced by a better one. A law, however, is a universally observable fact. It is undeniable and never fades away with the stretch of time.

Read more: Difference Between Theory and Law | Difference Between | Theory vs Law http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/culture-miscellaneous/difference-between-theory-and-law/#ixzz43dg38TPU



It's an old "evolutionist trick" to make folks believe a Theory is more scientifically sound than a Law.

[GMDino]

(03-22-2016, 10:35 AM)bfine32 Wrote: We had to evolve from something didn't we? perhaps it comes up everytime because they are related.

it seems everytime (yes every time) we discuss abortion a women's rights comes up.

Evolution is not about the origin of life. It is not an argument against creationism. Stop trying to make it that way.

[Rotobeast]

(03-22-2016, 02:27 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: I tend to think all religions lead back to the same place through different route, at this point in my life. I still claim to be Christian. And I do know that I am supposed to drop bombs on Muslims, get the willies around statues of Hindu gods, make occasional snide comments about Jews, tell Buddhists that they are just a philosophy, not a religion, and vote Republican on every ballot to avoid Hell . But frankly, I get tired of telling people of other beliefs they are wrong. How the heck should I know? Because the Bible tells me so?

No. I'm a Christian because I grew up as a Christian, studied the religion and live in a culture where that religion is the norm. The same can be said for Abdul over in Baghdad or Shem over in Tel Aviv, etc. Christianity is the "right path" for me, just as Islam is the "right path" for Abdul, Judaism is the "right path" for Shem, etc. It is not necessarily for me to say that Abdul, Shem and others are wrong because they do not believe what I choose to believe (highlight the word "choose"), just  as it is not for them say that I am wrong because I don't believe what they choose to believe. This is respecting other beliefs and, to my understanding, there are teachings that support this in all major beliefs.

I think about the allegorical story of the Tower of Babel in Judeo-Christian texts. Most of you know the story. The King of Babel (basically the king of the whole world allegorically) wants to build a tower so tall that he can walk up to the top and go visit God in Heaven (taken as showing God that he is God's equal when all of humanity is incorporated behind him). God, however, is not on board with this plan (Insert "One does not simply WALK into Heaven" meme). After all, it would be impious for dudes just to walk in on Him while He is in the shower. He busts up the tower, makes it so all of the people speak different languages and scatters them to the four corners of the Earth. According to the Bible, God had given humans the mandate to go forth, multiply, and fill the world in the allegorical story of the Garden of Eden. Instead, they got together in one place to build a building to go visit Him. So he makes them all speak different different languages so they don't want to hang around each other anymore. The overall religious moral of the story is obedience: do what God tells you to do (The moral is NOT "don't trust big government and charismatic leaders like Obama!!!").

Now, as I stated before, this is an allegorical story. It didn't actually happen. It may have some roots in a story of some ruler building a tower that was too high for the technology of the day to support and it crashed. It also had some roots in the overall theme of individuals leaving a nomadic life and moving to urban life in the cities. It also is believed to have been an explanation of one of the first cities, Babylon (some believe that the "tower" of the story may have been the great ziggurat of Babylon).

But such stories were incorporated into other stories to create a parable to explain certain other things such as: 1) Why can't we just go visit God?, 2) How come all these peoples around here speak different languages? 3) How come all of these people don't live here in one place?, etc. The faith-based answer you are supposed to derive from these questions is, "Because God wants it that way, fool!" (Insert meme of Mr. T saying this). My whole point in bringing this story up is that I think you can add another question to that list: "How come we have different religions?". I would answer, "Because God wants it that way, fool!" This all seems to be part of bigger test to me: How we deal with people who are different than us. In the end, isn't that what ultimately defines us?

I think humans have an instinctual need to seek some power beyond themselves which is expressed in different forms. That instinct provides us comfort when confronted with the unknown. I also believe that instinct is hard-wired into our genes. In contrast, science is our inborn need to confront the unknown and define it through scientific method and means. I believe this need to know the "whys" of things is also instinctual and hard-wired into our genes. In short, we are like toddlers whose curiosity drives us to get up out of bed and find out what is inside that dark closet and religion is the teddy bear we carry for courage while we do it. The problem comes when we elect to just lie in bed in fear clutching the teddy rather than seeing if there is a real cause for that fear.

Incoherent "babbling" finished.

Nice.

But, are things with your wife ok ?
You mention insertion a few times.
Tell me about your mother....

[SteelCitySouth]

(03-21-2016, 11:58 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: So it should be the Law of Evolution?

The Law of Gravity and the Theory of Gravity are two different things.

The Law of gravity is simply an observable fact.  It is literally nothing more that "ball goes up, ball comes down...gravity"

The Theory of Gravity is different in the sense that it is explaining gravity itself.  The Law of Gravity is part of the facts that make up the Theory.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-22-2016, 11:47 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: The Law of Gravity and the Theory of Gravity are two different things.

The Law of gravity is simply an observable fact.  It is literally nothing more that "ball goes up, ball comes down...gravity"

The Theory of Gravity is different in the sense that it is explaining gravity itself.  The Law of Gravity is part of the facts that make up the Theory.

I'm using that next time I get pulled over.  "Look there is a law of speeding, but there is also a theory of speeding, and if you write that ticket you may as well stamp 'moron' across your forehead."

[SteelCitySouth]

(03-22-2016, 11:59 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm using that next time I get pulled over.  "Look there is a law of speeding, but there is also a theory of speeding, and if you write that ticket you may as well stamp 'moron' across your forehead."

Hmmm....Me thinks you may not fully understand what I said....But I say go with it.  Just do us all a favor and get your cellphone out and record that conversation.