Proper Steps to MAGA?

[NATI BENGALS]

1. Collude with Russia, alienate allies, and normalize foreign interference in our election.

2. Hype up stock market rally. Claim all responsibility even though no major legislation was passed. Because we all know when Wall Street bankers are rolling in the money lower and middle class Americans are the real beneficiaries.

3. Let the health care system fail. I personally cant think of a better way to MAGA than cheerfully watching and waiting for the health care of our citizens to fall apart.

4. Using the office of the President to make profits for the family business. Almost forgot this one. But we know Trump didnt. Peddling Ivankas goods, free "winter white house" advertising with the greatly increased membership fees, son in laws tech startup getting access to top tech CEOs, pentagon payments directly to Trump tower.. Im probably missing about 40-50. But you get the point.

Basically a foolproof plan to MAGA though right? I know i am missing some big ones.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Nati, I think Ballsofsteel hacked your account and made a thread. That, or you two were always the same person. This is just bold font away from 100% being his thread.

[hollodero]

(07-20-2017, 02:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nati, I think Ballsofsteel hacked your account and made a thread. That, or you two were always the same person. This is just bold font away from 100% being his thread.

Is he wrong though? I feel the reasoning behind the irony is quite accurate.

- I would add a war on the MSM as additional point, really a very uniting move.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(07-20-2017, 04:16 PM)hollodero Wrote: Is he wrong though? I feel the reasoning behind the irony is quite accurate.

- I would add a war on the MSM as additional point, really a very uniting move.

Actually, he is wrong and it's only his opinion.

Until there is evidence of any wrong, it is all speculation.

[GMDino]

(07-20-2017, 04:22 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: Actually, he is wrong and it's only his opinion.

Until there is evidence of any wrong, it is all speculation.

Actually only #1 is opinion.

1 hasn't been proven.

2 his actions and words ave shown this.

3 He said this and tweeted it.

4 the numbers are there...the family is raking it in.

[hollodero]

(07-20-2017, 04:22 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: Actually, he is wrong and it's only his opinion.

Until there is evidence of any wrong, it is all speculation.

With what exactly? 

ad 1) "Collusion" is a broad term, and as long as used as such, I'd say it's accurate. Meeting with someone Russian with ties to the government (as stated in the email) that promises dirt on the opponent, then keeping that meeting secret, then lying about it again and again... it's getting awfully close, don't you think? And Trump definitely alienates allies, you can believe that's good, but it's hard to argue against that. That meddling gets normalized is 100% my perception, but sure opinionated. 

ad 2) I would not know exactly, but he sure takes credit for everything that works in his favour and denies all responsibility for things that go wrong. That's not an opinion, it's what he does. And Wall Street makes up for large parts of the actual government.

ad 3) It's exactly what he said.

and ad 4) there are more than just a few clues that he never let go of his businesses (his family regularly sends him reports), that his hotels get booked by diplomats and secret service, that he doubled the fees for membership in his golf courts, that he uses his power to slam companies that don't sell daughter stuff. That is all quite real.

Just IMHO, sure. So where do you think he's wrong? 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-20-2017, 04:16 PM)hollodero Wrote: Is he wrong though? I feel the reasoning behind the irony is quite accurate.

- I would add a war on the MSM as additional point, really a very uniting move.

Was more pointing out that we already get like 2-5 of these exact threads per week. We hardly need more.

[NATI BENGALS]

(07-20-2017, 04:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Was more pointing out that we already get like 2-5 of these exact threads per week. We hardly need more.

I really just wanted to get one in there that stresses how great America will be if the president gets his wish and we let our health care system fail. 

And while i was thinking of his valiant efforts to MAGA i thought it would be fun to list them.

[GMDino]

(07-20-2017, 04:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Was more pointing out that we already get like 2-5 of these exact threads per week. We hardly need more.

Really?  Seems a lot of threads are staying combined with new information getting added versus lots of new Trump threads.

At least lately.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-20-2017, 04:57 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I really just wanted to get one in there that stresses how great America will be if the president gets his wish and we let our health care system fail. 

And while i was thinking of his valiant efforts to MAGA i thought it would be fun to list them.

Liberal Healthcare Talking Points Over Time:

1... "Obamacare is great!"
2... "How dare you try to change Obamacare!"
3... "Yay! The GOP plan failed!"
4... "How dare you not fix healthcare and just let it fail!"

Do you want someone to try and make a healthcare system that won't fail, or do you want to complain about someone trying to make a healthcare system that won't fail? I'm not saying I know exactly what was in the GOP plan, or even if it was worth a damn. You're just now choosing both sides of the fight.

Either Trump is evil because he wants to replace Obamacare, or Trump is evil because he's just going to watch Obamacare fail. You only get to choose one.

[NATI BENGALS]

(07-20-2017, 04:16 PM)hollodero Wrote: Is he wrong though? I feel the reasoning behind the irony is quite accurate.

- I would add a war on the MSM as additional point, really a very uniting move.

Thats what I was hoping for. Someone else to help me out and continue the list.

I mean we are bringing back coal. Because it is 2017 and we dont have very advanced technology.

Using russian steel to build a pipeline over our largest fresh water aquifer so canada can sell their dirty oil.

Reducing environmental protections. Clean water and air is over rated.


Embarassing the country and lowering standards for the leader of the free world. Nothing says dignified and powerful like using presidential twitter to insult individual American citizens.

Spreading alternative facts (lies). Self explanatory. A post truth world is a better world.

Elevating levels of hate and division to new heights. United we stand was a bunch of bullshit. 

[hollodero]

(07-20-2017, 05:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Either Trump is evil because he wants to replace Obamacare, or Trump is evil because he's just going to watch Obamacare fail. You only get to choose one.

Now that's not true. There is no need to strictly put out "full replace" or "let it fail" as the only two viable options. Trump and his party also could fix the problems with Obamacare, as the third option Democrats (and apparently a big majority of the people) would opt for. Btw. the Democrats I heard, including Obama, all admitted Obamacare isn't working smoothly and needs fixing.

[NATI BENGALS]

(07-20-2017, 05:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Liberal Healthcare Talking Points Over Time:

1... "Obamacare is great!"
2... "How dare you try to change Obamacare!"
3... "Yay! The GOP plan failed!"
4... "How dare you not fix healthcare and just let it fail!"

Do you want someone to try and make a healthcare system that won't fail, or do you want to complain about someone trying to make a healthcare system that won't fail? I'm not saying I know exactly what was in the GOP plan, or even if it was worth a damn. You're just now choosing both sides of the fight.

Either Trump is evil because he wants to replace Obamacare, or Trump is evil because he's just going to watch Obamacare fail. You only get to choose one.

The first thing Trump did was sign an executive order to dismantle the ACA.

Rubio had already done the real damage though went he defunded the ACA with a slick move.

If they didnt already do damage i would say you are right.

But instead its like they shot your dog. Talked about helping it. But then just decided to watch it die 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-20-2017, 05:23 PM)hollodero Wrote: Now that's not true. There is no need to strictly put out "full replace" or "let it fail" as the only two viable options. Trump and his party also could fix the problems with Obamacare, as the third option Democrats (and apparently a big majority of the people) would opt for. Btw. the Democrats I heard, including Obama, all admitted Obamacare isn't working smoothly and needs fixing.

You can't fix something that's inherently flawed. It relies on young people to do the bulk of the paying, but young people don't want to do the bulk of the paying, so they opt out of it because the penalty is simply cheaper than buying something you don't want/need/use.

You could theoretically ramp up the penalty, or made enrollment mandatory, increasing exactly how much you're bending over the young and middle class with your robbery.

Then they can be paying for healthcare they don't want/don't need/can't even afford to use with the deductibles, and paying into social security that they likely either will never see, or won't see anywhere near as much as they put into it.

Government ponzi schemes don't work.

[GMDino]

(07-20-2017, 05:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Liberal Healthcare Talking Points Over Time:

1... "Obamacare is great!"
2... "How dare you try to change Obamacare!"
3... "Yay! The GOP plan failed!"
4... "How dare you not fix healthcare and just let it fail!"

Do you want someone to try and make a healthcare system that won't fail, or do you want to complain about someone trying to make a healthcare system that won't fail? I'm not saying I know exactly what was in the GOP plan, or even if it was worth a damn. You're just now choosing both sides of the fight.

Either Trump is evil because he wants to replace Obamacare, or Trump is evil because he's just going to watch Obamacare fail. You only get to choose one.

*Most* people I know who supported the ACA admitted it needed work done.  A good starting point, if you will.

In fact I know *I* would welcome input from all sides on ways to improve it...rather than just ending funding for parts and then claiming it is failing.

However the let fail option is the same as the replace option because Trump wants it to fail so he can replace it.

[hollodero]

(07-20-2017, 05:31 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You can't fix something that's inherently flawed. It relies on young people to do the bulk of the paying, but young people don't want to do the bulk of the paying, so they opt out of it because the penalty is simply cheaper than buying something you don't want/need/use.

You could theoretically ramp up the penalty, or made enrollment mandatory, increasing exactly how much you're bending over the young and middle class with your robbery.

Then they can be paying for healthcare they don't want/don't need/can't even afford to use with the deductibles, and paying into social security that they likely either will never see, or won't see anywhere near as much as they put into it.

Government ponzi schemes don't work.

Hmmm... that's the American take. I mean nothing by that, just saying. Americans sure seem to think in more individual terms.

Health care is complicated, sure. Social values (in lack of a better word) play some role in it. In Europe, we grew up with something like a contract of the generations, and young people pretty much accept that social standards demand certain expenses, even when they might not be the beneficiaries of said spending they have to contribute to. But then again, everyone has parents, friends who don't do well... etc. A society being taken care of in terms of health does, in my experience, work a bit better and more friction-free. Feeling "robbed", to me, sounds a bit egocentrical. If everyone pays a certain fraction of his salary, no one will go bancrupt because of health insurance. But it sure is a solidarity concept, and not to be cute but that thought doesn't seem popular in the US. But the result you get out of this way of thinking doesn't look particularly compelling for a society as a whole. From the outside, that is.

Plus, accidents can happen quickly. I guess I'm still on the spending side of things overall, but when I cut a nerve in my hand, I sure was glad that I was covered. Being healthy can change suddenly for everyone, no matter how young and vital one feels. 

Single payer seems like a viable option, or "Medicaid for all", and Sanders is quite right in saying that every wealthy nation except the US does offer similar services to their citizens. I understand that's a tough sell in the US, so OK. But a public option would be a distinct possibility to cap raising premiums.

But be that as it may - there are certainly more options than just full repeal or letting Obamacare fail. I insist on you being a bit too hasty with your judgment there :)

[ballsofsteel]

(07-20-2017, 02:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nati, I think Ballsofsteel hacked your account and made a thread. That, or you two were always the same person. This is just bold font away from 100% being his thread.

Your right, this is a great thread, wish I would of thought of it.
Every day your idol the commander in tweets, says or does something moronic. Don't blame me for your propensity for being taken in by a con man.

[hollodero]

(07-20-2017, 06:28 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: Your right, this is a great thread, wish I would of thought of it.
Every day your idol the commander in tweets, says or does something moronic. Don't blame me for your propensity for being taken in by a con man.

Don't throw everyone into one pot though. There are only a few flat-out idolizing Trump here, and LL sure isn't one of them.

[ballsofsteel]

(07-20-2017, 05:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Liberal Healthcare Talking Points Over Time:

1... "Obamacare is great!"
2... "How dare you try to change Obamacare!"
3... "Yay! The GOP plan failed!"
4... "How dare you not fix healthcare and just let it fail!"

Do you want someone to try and make a healthcare system that won't fail, or do you want to complain about someone trying to make a healthcare system that won't fail? I'm not saying I know exactly what was in the GOP plan, or even if it was worth a damn. You're just now choosing both sides of the fight.

Either Trump is evil because he wants to replace Obamacare, or Trump is evil because he's just going to watch Obamacare fail. You only get to choose one.

"Obamacare is great!", " "How dare you try to change Obamacare!".
I've never heard any Democrat or "liberal" say this.  Your Trump News (Fox) has planted this in your head and you fail for it.
Its called fake news. Sorry about your luck.

MAGA =

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-20-2017, 05:52 PM)hollodero Wrote: Hmmm... that's the American take. I mean nothing by that, just saying. Americans sure seem to think in more individual terms.

Health care is complicated, sure. Social values (in lack of a better word) play some role in it. In Europe, we grew up with something like a contract of the generations, and young people pretty much accept that social standards demand certain expenses, even when they might not be the beneficiaries of said spending they have to contribute to. But then again, everyone has parents, friends who don't do well... etc. A society being taken care of in terms of health does, in my experience, work a bit better and more friction-free. Feeling "robbed", to me, sounds a bit egocentrical. If everyone pays a certain fraction of his salary, no one will go bancrupt because of health insurance. But it sure is a solidarity concept, and not to be cute but that thought doesn't seem popular in the US. But the result you get out of this way of thinking doesn't look particularly compelling for a society as a whole. From the outside, that is.

Plus, accidents can happen quickly. I guess I'm still on the spending side of things overall, but when I cut a nerve in my hand, I sure was glad that I was covered. Being healthy can change suddenly for everyone, no matter how young and vital one feels. 

Single payer seems like a viable option, or "Medicaid for all", and Sanders is quite right in saying that every wealthy nation except the US does offer similar services to their citizens. I understand that's a tough sell in the US, so OK. But a public option would be a distinct possibility to cap raising premiums.

But be that as it may - there are certainly more options than just full repeal or letting Obamacare fail. I insist on you being a bit too hasty with your judgment there :)

The robbed bit isn't egocentrical. When someone says "oh, by the way, you don't want or need this, but give me your money anyway or I am throwing you in jail" that is most certainly robbery.

They throw around the 20m people who got health insurance because of it number, but note there's never any research done on how many of that 20m *DIDN'T WANT IT*. Or how many people who already had health insurance are now finding their deductibles and premiums skyrocketing to the point where sure they technically have insurance on paper, but now they can no longer afford to use it. My parents are pretty much in that group. It's shit to see because they have worked hard for it only to have it essentially snatched away to give to people who didn't work hard for it under the guise of a better world, and they are middle class at best.

Meanwhile my friends who were already working 2 jobs in order to pay their bills and student loans, are getting $695 taken away from them just so they can opt out of something they neither wanted nor needed.

Might sound a bit curmudgeon-y, but shit medically was a LOT better from my perspective a decade ago.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -

As for Sanders, his plan was never a good one. I think I read it would have meant like 20% of everyone's income would go towards paying for what he proposed.