(09-21-2016, 10:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: He doesn't need to be a suspect, he exited a vehicle, with a visible weapon, while police activity was going on. It is their job to notice him, for all they knew, he could have been there to aid and abet the warrant suspect. The rule is, obey the officer. Let them sort out their business, if you are in the right, you get to go about your business.
While finding the Waco story in another response I found these too:
Quote:1. Armed White Guy Has Standoff With Police, Then Gets His Gun Back
Last May, an armed Michigan man had a standoff with the police as he stood in front of a Dairy Queen waving a loaded rifle around and angrily shouting. When cops arrived, the man, Joseph Houseman, refused to identify himself, grabbed his crotch, flipped the bird, and cursed them out. Houseman was intoxicated and didn’t have an ID. For 40 minutes, the police tried to get the belligerent man to put his weapon down. All the while, he was screaming, “The revolution is coming,” and accusing the cops of being a “gang." He told the police he had a legal right to "threaten" police officers and their families.
When Houseman refused a Breathalyzer test, officers decided not to give him his gun back. Instead, he was told to come to the police station and claim it the next day. He did, and his gun was safely returned.
2. White Guy Points Gun at Police Officers and Children During Hour-Long Standoff
In August, a San Diego man got out of his parked car with a loaded 9mm pistol and proceeded to point it at police officers and small children who were playing in a local park. The police proceeded to spend the next hour trying to talk the man, Lance Tamayo, into putting down his weapon.
Can you guess the man’s race? That’s right, he’s a white guy!
As terrified children were forced to hide in the bathroom, Tamayo rushed toward the officers with his weapon pointed at them and at a police helicopter flying overhead.
Eventually, an officer shot Tamayo once in the stomach to put him down. He fell to the ground, but his gun remained within reach. The police then called Tamayo on his cell phone and spoke with him for 15 minutes before he agreed to surrender. He was arrested and charged with exhibiting a firearm in the presence of peace officers.
3. White Man Arrested Twice For Road Rage With a Gun
In October, a Tennessee man was arrested for waving a loaded gun during a road rage incident involving another man and his son. E.J. Watson confronted the pair when they came to a stop, exited his vehicle with his pistol tucked in the front of his pants and was very belligerent, cursing and making derogatory remarks.
The victims called 911, and police pulled Watson over a few miles from the weapon-wielding episode. His car was littered with empty beer cans as well as a loaded Smith & Wesson revolver. Watson refused to exit his vehicle and had to be physically removed. Only three months earlier, he was arrested for a separate drunken road rage incident.
4. White Guy Arrested for Firing BB Gun at Officers
A 22-year-old from New Hampshire faces one count of reckless conduct afterfiring a BB gun at Concord police in September. The two police officers were making a routine traffic stop at an intersection when the man opened fire from a nearby apartment building. They arrested the culprit, Jesse Deflorio, who was on already on probation for a similar incident. The judge residing over the case commented that he was worried about the white guy’s safety following the most recent BB gun-firing episode.
5. Two White Men Shoot Up Walmart With BB Gun and Live to Tell the Tale
Two Idaho men were taken into custody after shooting up a Walmart with a BB gun. Both were intoxicated. They walked into the Post Falls Walmart and proceeded to remove BB guns from boxes, before loading one and firing it four times while in the store. Walmart security contacted police, saying the two men “started shooting the gun in the store and made comments that they were going to shoot the store up.” According to one Walmart employee, the drunken men approached him and asked if he wanted to join them in their shooting spree.
The two white guys were taken into custody without incident, instead of being shot and killed on the spot.
6. White Guy Arrested After Pointing Gun at Pennsylvania Police Officers
Just this month,Pennsylvania State Police arrested a man after he reportedlypulled a gun on officers. Jed Frazier had driven his car off the road into a ditch. When police approached the vehicle, the man pulled a handgun from his coat pocket and pointed it at police.
Officers took shelter and tried to talk the man into dropping his loaded weapon. Finally, the police broke the windows of his car, extricated the man and arrested him, all without firing a shot.
Want to guess the man’s race?
7. White Woman Dressed In Body Armor Arrested After Shooting Into Cars and Pointing Gun at Police
It’s not just white guys who get all the privilege—sometimes white women do as well.
Just before the new year, a Tennessee woman was arrested after driving around shooting at passersby, leading police on a chase and pointing her gun at an officer. Two people were at a stop sign when Julia Shields pulled up in a sedan and fired shots into their vehicle, hitting and disabling the radiator. A rash of 911 calls reported Shields pointing her firearm at people as she passed, and firing at another vehicle in the same area. Once cops arrived, she led them on a short chase.
8. White Man Arrested After Pointing Gun at Phoenix Firefighters During Hour-Long Standoff
A mentally disturbed white man was arrested in Phoenix after pointing a gun at firefighters during an hour-long standoff.
Steven Whitlock opened his apartment door with a gun in his hand when firefighters stopped by to conduct a welfare check.
The firefighters dropped their equipment and ran for cover. Whitlock then grabbed their equipment and barricaded himself in his apartment.
Police engaged in an hour-long standoff with Whitlock, before forcing themselves into his apartment and taking him into custody.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(09-21-2016, 11:18 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Vas Deferens
I was told you guys had a pow-pow while I was on paid administrative leave and everything is peaches and cream kumbaya now. Or was that just more hipocracy?
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(09-21-2016, 11:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're right, bad form for my knee-jerk comment. What I really mean is that in the 1960s, approximately 20% of black children were born to single mothers, today it is over 70%. Perhaps the government should be helping to instruct these folks on how to raise the children they create, and maybe they might learn some respect for authority in the process. People can blame it on economic conditions, poor schools, etc. all that they want to. But, the simple fact remains that if the Black family unit were to see a resurgence, crime and ignorance would seriously decrease.
(09-21-2016, 10:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: Could we cut the dang personal attacks?
If you have nothing to contribute (either questions or answers) about the topic find another place to have a pissing contest and show the world who has a bigger hammer.
I get tired of threads getting locked because two or three people can't stop talking about each other rather than with each other.
Yes, I am aware this is also off topic.
Would you include deliberately misstating someone's point to be a personal attack? Would you call someone pointing out that this was done a personal attack? You've already pointed out that raising a person's posting history is a personal attack so I just want to get your tolerance threshold confirmed.
(09-21-2016, 11:14 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm sure the more conspiratorially inclined among us will bring up a plant gun. Alex Jones had multiple children who are now part of the anti-law enforcement movement.
Maybe not just the children of Alex Jones. Instead it might be brought up by a person who has knowledge of actual facts.
(09-21-2016, 11:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Would you include deliberately misstating someone's point to be a personal attack? Would you call someone pointing out that this was done a personal attack? You've already pointed out that raising a person's posting history is a personal attack so I just want to get your tolerance threshold confirmed.
I'm trying to get folks to stay on topic. if want to get banned feel free. I don't want to play that game. Thanks.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(09-21-2016, 11:32 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Don't forget, they bought Dylann Roof a cheeseburger!
okay?
These are actual incidents where people either had guns, fired guns or aimed guns at officers and all lived. All just also happened to be white. I'm sure there are stories of blacks and Hispanics doing the same and not getting shot too...they just seem harder to find.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(09-21-2016, 11:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe not just the children of Alex Jones. Instead it might be brought up by a person who has knowledge of actual facts.
Sadly, your inane burden of proof for police using a "pant gun", e.g the fact that it has happened on occasion during the course of human history enable the justification of just about anything. Want to profile muslims? Well they have committed terrorist acts before. Want to solve a robbery? Simply go arrest a guy who's been convicted of one in the past, he's done it before! Are you Jewish? Don't go to Germany, they've killed Jews before, it's not safe for you there.
Your inanity is matched only by your stunning lack of logic.
(09-21-2016, 11:41 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: They probably deleted their Dylann Roof alerts. An act that cannot be undone.
(09-21-2016, 11:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're right, bad form for my knee-jerk comment. What I really mean is that in the 1960s, approximately 20% of black children were born to single mothers, today it is over 70%. Perhaps the government should be helping to instruct these folks on how to raise the children they create, and maybe they might learn some respect for authority in the process. People can blame it on economic conditions, poor schools, etc. all that they want to. But, the simple fact remains that if the Black family unit were to see a resurgence, crime and ignorance would seriously decrease.
Since 1965 the percentage of black children born to a single mother has gone up 250%
Since 1965 the percentage of white children born to a single mother has increased 700%
So why shouldn't the government also be instructing white people how to raise the children they create? Why are you not concerned about the white family unit?
A man who was shot after a confrontation with San Diego police at Mission Bay Park last summer was sentenced Monday.
Quote:Lance Tamayo, 46, was sentenced to 180 days in jail and three years probation, along with community service. He pleaded guilty in April to a felony charge of exhibiting a firearm in the presence of a police officer in an attempt to avoid arrest. Deputy District Attorney, Michael Runyon said the circumstances of the case lead to a more lenient sentence, "it is clear from 911 calls he communicates to the dispatcher that he is trying to kill himself."
Tamayo -- who was given credit for 132 days in custody -- was immediately taken to jail to serve the remainder of his sentence.
Judge Timothy Walsh also imposed but suspended a four-year prison sentence, so long as Tamayo successfully completes three years on probation.
The defendant will also be required to do 200 hours of volunteer work, take part in drug and alcohol programs, and continue with mental health treatment. Said Deputy D.A Runyon, "but for an unusual combination of circumstances, this defendant was looking at much more serious charges and of course much more serious consequences."
Tamayo called police from the 2800 block of North Mission Bay Drive shortly after 11 a.m. last Aug. 6 and told dispatchers that he was going to shoot himself, according to San Diego police Sgt. Manuel Del Toro. Officers arrived to find Tamayo sitting in his car in a parking area near De Anza Cove. They called him on his cell phone and spoke with him for about 15 minutes before he agreed to surrender, Del Toro said.
Tamayo then got out of his car but returned and grabbed a loaded 9 mm pistol. He "pointed his gun recklessly at various people in the park,'' at a police helicopter overhead and at the nearby officers, prompting Officer Michael Weaver to shoot the suspect in the stomach, the sergeant said.
An investigation determined that the ammunition Tamayo was trying to use would not fire from his gun, said Deputy District Attorney Michael Runyon.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(09-21-2016, 11:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Lance Tamayo? Sounds Hispanic to me...
I could describe several instances of armed black people being taken into custody without shots fired. The fact is it happens far more often than people would think. The scenario would play into that quite a bit. Armed suspects are talked down and arrested all the time, far more often than police shootings. GMDabo found a site that only pointed out when this happened to white people because that fits his preferred narrative and theirs. That site crapped their list into a bowl and he got his spoon out post haste.
(09-21-2016, 11:45 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sadly, your inane burden of proof for police using a "pant gun", e.g the fact that it has happened on occasion during the course of human history enable the justification of just about anything. Want to profile muslims? Well they have committed terrorist acts before. Want to solve a robbery? Simply go arrest a guy who's been convicted of one in the past, he's done it before! Are you Jewish? Don't go to Germany, they've killed Jews before, it's not safe for you there.
Your inanity is matched only by your stunning lack of logic.
My argument was based on fact. I posted proof that it actually happens.
Your argument that it does not happen and is only in the imagination of conspiracy theorist has been proven wrong.
You can try to spin it anyway you want, but I have proven that it is not just something from the imagination of a conspiracy theorist. Obviously only a small percentage of police get caught planting a gun. So it happens a lot more than you like to pretend.
(09-21-2016, 11:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since 1965 the percentage of black children born to a single mother has gone up 250%
Since 1965 the percentage of white children born to a single mother has increased 700%
So why shouldn't the government also be instructing white people how to raise the children they create? Why are you not concerned about the white family unit?
Good question, specifically as many more white people are shot by the police than black.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(09-21-2016, 11:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My argument was based on fact. I posted proof that it actually happens.
All my examples actually happen(ed) too.
Quote:Your argument that it does not happen and is only in the imagination of conspiracy theorist has been proven wrong.
Incorrect. As shown in my examples the fact that something has happened is not a good basis for saying it just happened again. You'd probably need something called evidence to come to this conclusion. If you lack said evidence and state your opinion based on the mere fact that it has happened over the course of human existence you are in Alex Jones conspiracy land.
Quote:You can try to spin it anyway you want, but I have proven that it is not just something from the imagination of a conspiracy theorist.
No spin, just straightforward facts.
Quote:Obviously only a small percentage of police get caught planting a gun. So it happens a lot more than you like to pretend.
Haha, as an attorney you should be ashamed of yourself for this statement. You basically said, "I know it happens a lot more than the few instances that have been actually proven!" In one statement you've made a bigger bad actor LEO comment than any ever made on this board. Oh man, coming from a DPD that is priceless!
(09-21-2016, 11:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I could describe several instances of armed black people being taken into custody without shots fired. The fact is it happens far more often than people would think. The scenario would play into that quite a bit. Armed suspects are talked down and arrested all the time, far more often than police shootings. GMDabo found a site that only pointed out when this happened to white people because that fits his preferred narrative and theirs. That site crapped their list into a bowl and he got his spoon out post haste.
But you won't. You'll attack the messenger.
The post I quoted:
Quote:He doesn't need to be a suspect, he exited a vehicle, with a visible weapon, while police activity was going on.
The site I quoted showed multiple times where a person with a gun , sometimes aiming it at the police, did not get shot. That leads to the questions about why other times the victim is shot. I was directly addressing the supposition that having a gun is asking to get shot. Clearly it is not.
Clearly the police do not shoot EVERY person they interact with, gun or no.
But that does not mean we can not question why a man in Tulsa is dead when he didn't have a weapon. Or a man who told police he had a gun is dead. Or a guy standing outside his car his dead.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
Quote:ACLU: Audio recording captures Connecticut state police conspiring to fabricate criminal charges
By Radley BalkoSeptember 20 The ACLU of Connecticut has filed a lawsuit on behalf of Michael Picard, an activist who has protested and investigated DUI checkpoints, which he believes are wasteful and unconstitutional. Picard is also an open carry gun rights activist. In September 2015, Picard protested a DUI checkpoint in West Hartford by holding up a sign just before a checkpoint that read “cops ahead, remain silent.” There was nothing illegal about what he was doing.
ACLU of Connecticut Legal Director Dan Barrett describes what happened next:
Quote:
Then, the state police officers who were working the checkpoint come over to Michael, and the first thing they do is slap the camera out of his hand so it hits the ground. He thinks it’s broken.
It was really brazen. There’s another video showing that the first thing the state trooper does is walk up and with his open hand slap the camera down to the ground. He doesn’t even say anything like “put that down,” or “please lower your camera.” He just slaps it to the ground. Then he interacts with Michael as if nothing happened …
The cops then searched Picard, and loudly announced that they had found a gun. This was nonsense, since Picard was openly carrying a gun from the start, which was legal under the state’s open carry law. As they ran a check on his permit, Picard picked up his camera. One cop then comes back over and tells Picard “taking my picture is illegal.” This is nonsense, and Picard, who knows his rights, begins debating with the officer. The cop then snatches the camera away and puts it on top of a police cruiser, not realizing that it’s still recording. Here’s the footage of what happens next:
Barrett summarizes:
Quote:
So we get the three troopers at the cruiser talking about what to do. Michael’s permit comes back as valid, they say “oh crap,” and one of the troopers says “we gotta punch a number on this guy,” which means open an investigation in the police database. And he says “we really gotta cover our asses.” And then they have a very long discussion about what to charge Michael with—none of which appear to have any basis in fact. This plays out over eight minutes. They talk about “we could do this, we could do this, we could do this….”
In Connecticut, police officers have clear requirements under the law to intervene and stop or prevent constitutional violations when they see them. But at no time did any of the three officers pipe up and say, “why don’t we just give him his camera back and let him go.”
In the end they decide on two criminal infractions: “reckless use of a highway by a pedestrian,” and “creating a public disturbance.” They have a chilling discussion on how to support the public disturbance charge, and the top-level supervisor explains to the other two, “what we say is that multiple motorists stopped to complain about a guy waving a gun around, but none of them wanted to stop and make a statement.” In other words, what sounds like a fairy tale.
It took over a year for Picard to finally get the criminal charges dropped. He filed a complaint with the state police. It went nowhere, and in fact led to more harassment. That’s why he’s now suing. Picard sounds like a he’s probably difficult to deal with. I’m sure it isn’t pleasant for police officers to interact with him. It doesn’t matter. It’s part of the job. A badge isn’t a license to frame someone on false charges because you find them annoying. Each of these cops should be fired. You could also make a convincing argument that they should be criminally charged.
Does that mean it happens all the time or even more often than not? No. Probably not.
Does that mean it DOES happen and people should stop saying it never does? Yes. Probably so.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(09-21-2016, 04:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not even remotely what I said. I was directly responding to your assertion that "respect the cop" does not work.
I was responding to someone who said that 99% of these are people not respecting cops. That's a good argument when we have guys charging cops, but it's a shitty argument when we're shooting guys sitting in their cars at traffic stops, standing with their arms raised against their car, and being tackled and tazed by two guys outside of a gas station.
I'm not even "anti-cop". I've only had one experience with an asshole cop, the rest have been great. I just think it's dumb to write it off as "well, they clearly just aren't respecting cops". I've argued for justifiable use of force before. I'm not some facebook social justice warrior crying foul when a kid with a gun aims it towards cops when they're chasing him because he robbed someone.
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