Public Housing Smoking Ban

[Rotobeast]

(11-13-2015, 12:30 PM)Benton Wrote: Heard about this on NPR yesterday and it sounds good to me. I own rental property. I don't allow smokers or pets. From an owner's stand point, it's just business sense. I don't want to have to pay extra for the necessary extra cleaning. Or the damage (painting over yellowed walls, burn holes in carpet, etc.).

Amen !
The paint never sticks.
You have to use the "special" primer, then paint.
:angry:

[Au165]

(11-13-2015, 11:34 AM)michaelsean Wrote: https://reason.com/blog/2013/12/16/is-it-safe-yet-to-have-an-honest-convers

http://www.bmj.com/content/326/7398/1057

The correlation between these diseases and second hand smoke in these studies is recall.  Everyone over 40 can say they have been exposed to secondhand smoke in restaurants airplanes offices etc.

From your own BMJ study...

"Based on these findings, exposure to environmental tobacco smoke could not plausibly cause a 30% increase in risk of coronary heart disease in this cohort, although a 20% increase in risk of lung cancer and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease could not be ruled out."

The study is not saying it isn't dangerous it is saying it is not as dangerous as first believed. It is dangerous, 30% increase, 20%increase, 5% increase, no one else should be at risk for someone else habit. The WHO, CDC, Mayo clinic, and Cleveland clinic all agree it is dangerous. I am going to side with them on this one...

[fredtoast]

(11-13-2015, 12:49 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Amen !
The paint never sticks.
You have to use the "special" primer, then paint.
:angry:

I have painted a lot of rooms where people smoked, and I never saw anything like this.  But when my wife's uncle died we went to help clean out his house.  The walls in the corner where his recliner had sat had huge yellow/brown stains  where he had smoked there for 20 years.  When they painted the stains just kept seeping through every new coat of paint until they used some special primer.

[fredtoast]

I am pretty sure the vast majority of public housing units have children. Maybe Phil can give us more info on this. So there should be no smoking if children are present.

But even if second hand smoke was not a problem, there is still a legitimates safety issue. Smoking is the number one cause death, injury, and property damage from house fires.

And this is not an expensive enforcement requirement like drug tests. I doubt there would be any added costs for investigation or enforcement. Tenants would just be subject to eviction if they get caught.

[Au165]

(11-13-2015, 01:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am pretty sure the vast majority of public housing units have children. Maybe Phil can give us more info on this.  So there should be no smoking if children are present.

But even if second hand smoke was not a problem, there is still a legitimates safety issue.  Smoking is the number one cause death, injury, and property damage from house fires.

And this is not an expensive enforcement requirement like drug tests.  I doubt there would be any added costs for investigation or enforcement.  Tenants would just be subject to eviction if they get caught.

I agree, moving beyond the health risks it still makes little sense to allow.

[Benton]

(11-13-2015, 01:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am pretty sure the vast majority of public housing units have children. Maybe Phil can give us more info on this.  So there should be no smoking if children are present.

But even if second hand smoke was not a problem, there is still a legitimates safety issue.  Smoking is the number one cause death, injury, and property damage from house fires.

And this is not an expensive enforcement requirement like drug tests.  I doubt there would be any added costs for investigation or enforcement.  Tenants would just be subject to eviction if they get caught.

When I first moved out of my parent's house my roommate and I applied for an apartment at a housing complex. Our thinking was there are tons of single broke girls. The guy laughed at us. We were just two 19 year old guys with no kids, no social aide or anything like that, so the rent wasn't adjusted. It was about 50% higher than most of the 2 bedroom apartments in our area.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-13-2015, 11:34 AM)michaelsean Wrote: https://reason.com/blog/2013/12/16/is-it-safe-yet-to-have-an-honest-convers

http://www.bmj.com/content/326/7398/1057

The correlation between these diseases and second hand smoke in these studies is recall.  Everyone over 40 can say they have been exposed to secondhand smoke in restaurants airplanes offices etc.

I see your point on this and if they were actual owners then this would apply . But I feel like if your dependent on the rest of us for your life then you can suffer from not being able to smoke in your house. Maybe this will push them to get off benefits and provide for themselves.

[*Nately120*]

(11-13-2015, 12:30 PM)Benton Wrote: Heard about this on NPR yesterday and it sounds good to me. I own rental property. I don't allow smokers or pets. From an owner's stand point, it's just business sense. I don't want to have to pay extra for the necessary extra cleaning. Or the damage (painting over yellowed walls, burn holes in carpet, etc.).

Exactly, this isn't about second-hand smoke, it's about how much damage smoking does to places.  It's all about the cash money, folks.  It always is.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-13-2015, 12:30 PM)Benton Wrote: Heard about this on NPR yesterday and it sounds good to me. I own rental property. I don't allow smokers or pets. From an owner's stand point, it's just business sense. I don't want to have to pay extra for the necessary extra cleaning. Or the damage (painting over yellowed walls, burn holes in carpet, etc.).

Same here .... I don't put down carpet in any rental now because of spills. And whenever you let a smoker in as a renter it just kills the ability to turn it around for a top rate.

[djs7685]

(11-13-2015, 03:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Same here ....   I don't put down carpet in any rental now because of spills.   And whenever you let a smoker in as a renter it just kills the ability to turn it around for a top rate.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-13-2015, 03:44 PM)djs7685 Wrote:

Let me guess you actually think carpet is a right. Lol

[Benton]

(11-13-2015, 03:44 PM)djs7685 Wrote:

Lucie's right on this one.

I only carpet the bedrooms now, and I wouldn't do that if I had an alternative that's as cheap as carpet. But having had smokers as renters, it's difficult to get the smell out. You pretty much have to air the place out for days and use some heavy duty cleaners on the walls and floors. And that costs, whether you do it yourself or pay to have it done.

The alternative is leaving it smelling like an ash tray, which can exclude some potential renters. And the danger there is, it's really, really hard to find good renters. Any time I list a property, I get 20-40 responses within a week. Maybe 2-3 of those are viable (have a job, have an employment/living history, don't have too many people for the size of dwelling). Anything to reduce that number is negative to keeping my rental rates affordable.

[djs7685]

(11-13-2015, 04:13 PM)Benton Wrote: Lucie's right on this one.

I only carpet the bedrooms now, and I wouldn't do that if I had an alternative that's as cheap as carpet. But having had smokers as renters, it's difficult to get the smell out. You pretty much have to air the place out for days and use some heavy duty cleaners on the walls and floors. And that costs, whether you do it yourself or pay to have it done.

The alternative is leaving it smelling like an ash tray, which can exclude some potential renters. And the danger there is, it's really, really hard to find good renters. Any time I list a property, I get 20-40 responses within a week. Maybe 2-3 of those are viable (have a job, have an employment/living history, don't have too many people for the size of dwelling). Anything to reduce that number is negative to keeping my rental rates affordable.

Nah I wasn't trying to say that you should put carpet in your rental property.

I agree with everything you're saying here, makes sense

[Mike M (the other one)]

Bunch of hypocrites in here :)
First you don't want the government telling you what you can/can't do in your homes, now you're saying it's ok just because their agenda matches yours?

[StLucieBengal]

(11-13-2015, 04:13 PM)Benton Wrote: Lucie's right on this one.

I only carpet the bedrooms now, and I wouldn't do that if I had an alternative that's as cheap as carpet. But having had smokers as renters, it's difficult to get the smell out. You pretty much have to air the place out for days and use some heavy duty cleaners on the walls and floors. And that costs, whether you do it yourself or pay to have it done.

The alternative is leaving it smelling like an ash tray, which can exclude some potential renters. And the danger there is, it's really, really hard to find good renters. Any time I list a property, I get 20-40 responses within a week. Maybe 2-3 of those are viable (have a job, have an employment/living history, don't have too many people for the size of dwelling). Anything to reduce that number is negative to keeping my rental rates affordable.

I put down ceramic tile. I try and buy rental homes that already have it already is possible.. it's a heck of a lot easier to maintain. Plus I can allow pets which opens up more possible renters. Plus I can charge higher rent on those pet owners and there is minimal impact to the home.

[fredtoast]

(11-13-2015, 04:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Bunch of hypocrites in here :)
First you don't want the government telling you what you can/can't do in your homes, now you're saying it's ok just because their agenda matches yours?

Big difference between the rules that should apply in private property and rules that apply in rental property.

The property owner has certain rights superior to the tenant even if the government is the owner.

Although I agree that it is really just another anti-smoking campaign, they can justify it based on the increased risk of death, injury, and property damage from fires started by smokers.

[Benton]

(11-13-2015, 04:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Bunch of hypocrites in here :)
First you don't want the government telling you what you can/can't do in your homes, now you're saying it's ok just because their agenda matches yours?

Well, no.

One, if we're talking public housing, it's not their house. They're being allowed to live there until they get on their feet (or at least that's the idea).

If you're talking about renting, it's not the renter's house. It's mine. I'm letting him live there for $X. I have a list of rules (no making meth, no smoking, no prostitution, no pets). If he wants to alter that list, he can pay me more.  

[GodHatesBengals]

(11-13-2015, 08:39 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I've been tobacco free for about two and a half years now and this is so true. When I smell a smoker anymore it is such a revolting smell.

Yep. I smoked a pack a day for a few years as a teenager/young adult. Once you kick the habit and give your body a few months to repair, it's amazing to discover how much your senses were missing. Everything tastes and smells stronger--and you finally realize people weren't exaggerating when they told you how bad you smelled.

[GodHatesBengals]

(11-13-2015, 11:34 AM)michaelsean Wrote: https://reason.com/blog/2013/12/16/is-it-safe-yet-to-have-an-honest-convers

http://www.bmj.com/content/326/7398/1057

The correlation between these diseases and second hand smoke in these studies is recall.  Everyone over 40 can say they have been exposed to secondhand smoke in restaurants airplanes offices etc.

This is called "denial", folks.

It's something basically any adult who still smokes tobacco in the 21st century suffers from.

BTW "Reason" is the most incorrectly named pile of pseudo-journalistic garbage this side of the National Review.

[Rotobeast]

(11-13-2015, 01:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have painted a lot of rooms where people smoked, and I never saw anything like this.  But when my wife's uncle died we went to help clean out his house.  The walls in the corner where his recliner had sat had huge yellow/brown stains  where he had smoked there for 20 years.  When they painted the stains just kept seeping through every new coat of paint until they used some special primer.

Oh, it's not every place.
Don't get me wrong.
I've had a few that almost nothing but Kilz will stick & seal.
Maybe the stains were from weed ?
I assume that weed probably has more oils ?
That could have been what I encountered.
No idea.