(08-26-2023, 02:17 PM)pally Wrote: How many volleyball players get injured every year under the exact same circumstances regardless of who was hitting or trying to return the ball?
(08-26-2023, 02:34 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I’ve never heard of one, so you tell me because you’re trying to make it sound like it’s a common occurrence, so please show me how many times a year high school girls are injured that badly on similar plays.
Concussions are very common in Volleyball, what you are ignoring is the SPEED that it traveled.
Kim Yeon-koung, a South Korean volleyball player, holds the record for the fastest recorded spike speed at 77 miles per hour (124 kilometers per hour). She was in her mid-20's when she did this at the 2012 Olympics.
The HS Aged Trans-girl that you are talking about that also spiked it and was recorded at a speed of about 70 mph. The avg Male's Spike speed is between 70-80 mph.
The average kill speed for a high school volleyball player is around 40-50 mph. Players at this level typically haven't developed the skill set to spike faster yet.
(08-26-2023, 03:46 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I think we've reached a point in society where politicians create so much noise in order to draw in attention and votes as well as people on social media doing that in order to get views. People can't tell the difference between mindless noise and actual news. I mean we could be pushing our planets climate to a point of no return and we think that's a hoax and a non story. But a man or woman wanting to be referred to as the opposite sex is a concern that any of us need to worry about at all.
While I agree with your overall sentiment about priorities, I would offer that combating ignorance, intolerance and misinformation will always be extremely vital.
(08-26-2023, 03:49 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Perhaps you could share your definition of what a man and woman are.
Let's just put an end to all of this back and forth badgering of each other.
The best solution would be to create an open division if there is enough demand for it. And leave the Male/Female sides for biological Male/Female only.
(08-26-2023, 03:54 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Concussions are very common in Volleyball, what you are ignoring is the SPEED that it traveled.
Kim Yeon-koung, a South Korean volleyball player, holds the record for the fastest recorded spike speed at 77 miles per hour (124 kilometers per hour). She was in her mid-20's when she did this at the 2012 Olympics.
The HS Aged Trans-girl that you are talking about that also spiked it and was recorded at a speed of about 70 mph. The avg Male's Spike speed is between 70-80 mph.
The average kill speed for a high school volleyball player is around 40-50 mph. Players at this level typically haven't developed the skill set to spike faster yet.
Concussion symptoms and other injuries such as impaired vision, partial paralysis on the right side of her body, headaches, anxiety and depression that are still affecting them a year and a half later?
(08-26-2023, 02:44 PM)basballguy Wrote: I think volleyball is both a great and terrible example for this situation.
Here you have a sport that absolutely recognizes men are more dominant than women and literally has a lower net for womens games for this exact reason.
Even in Coed (doubles) it's often still on a net size between the mens net height and womens net height. Hell, there are cash tournaments that will have some subtle rules/etiquette for playing against women in these coed games (since there's still a competitive advantage for males)
But at the same time, volleyball is a sport that is more about athleticism than it is about strength and unless you're talking about people that play on the AVP, a male competing on the women's team probably wouldn't normally be a big deal....i haven't seen the video though.
Exactly.
Even if you ignore the unfair advantages in most (all?) other sports that males have over females, see my post above this one and ask the people defending this why it was ok to not only rob this girl of something she loved, but to also cause permanent damage.
Here's the spike:
(My computer doesn't show YouTube videos when they're posted on this site for some crippled reason, but there's a big white gap, so let me know if it doesn't show up. Here's a link with the video in it.)
Even if you ignore the unfair advantages in most (all?) other sports that males have over females, see my post above this one and ask the people defending this why it was ok to not only rob this girl of something she loved, but to also cause permanent damage.
Here's the spike:
(My computer doesn't show YouTube videos when they're posted on this site for some crippled reason, but there's a big white gap, so let me know if it doesn't show up. Here's a link with the video in it.)
(08-26-2023, 04:35 PM)Lucidus Wrote: All biological females.
What's your point, that injuries happen in every sport? Sure they do, and the severity of such injuries only increases when you allow a competitor that is genetically stronger to enter the competition. It's like allowing someone to bring a .22 long rifle to a BB gun war.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
Even if you ignore the unfair advantages in most (all?) other sports that males have over females, see my post above this one and ask the people defending this why it was ok to not only rob this girl of something she loved, but to also cause permanent damage.
Here's the spike:
(My computer doesn't show YouTube videos when they're posted on this site for some crippled reason, but there's a big white gap, so let me know if it doesn't show up. Here's a link with the video in it.)
video came in fine....
So, I am NOT an expert on volleyball but i do play competitively and that honestly looks like something that happens regularly....to me this example is a reflection of skill, not strength....the hit doesn't seem as hard as i thought it would be and the defender was way too slow to get in a defensive position....though these are just kids so who knows.
there's probably 100s of videos like this on the internet that's just girl on girl action (go ahead, make your jokes)
Volleyball concussions aren't uncommon though. I know quite a few people that had their bell rung by a ball.
Here's an article i found that provides more insight
Quote: In female players, the concussion rate in the NCAA has been reported as 4.93 per 10,000 AEs, with 6.05 during competition and 4.43 during practices [21]. This is the highest amongst limited-contact sports including softball, swimming/diving, and baseball.
So it's not really new territory...and this analysis wasn't really done with transgender in mind.
However, i do think the person in question does have an athletic advantage...though I honestly don't see it in the video...I just see a better skilled player swinging on a slow blocker and defender....and honestly....i wouldn't even have known it was a girl if i just watched the video alone. :)
-The only bengals fan that has never set foot in Cincinnati 1-15-22
(08-26-2023, 04:35 PM)Lucidus Wrote: All biological females.
So what? Are you actually arguing that biological men are not stronger than women? The knots you guys tie yourselves into to avoid stating simple facts on this issue is as impressive as it is disheartening. Biological men competing in sport against biological women is inherently unfair, there is no way this can be disputed. Especially when you are allowed to self identify, as many, if not most blue states allow.
(08-26-2023, 04:50 PM)basballguy Wrote: video came in fine....
So, I am NOT an expert on volleyball but i do play competitively and that honestly looks like something that happens regularly....to me this example is a reflection of skill, not strength....the hit doesn't seem as hard as i thought it would be and the defender was way too slow to get in a defensive position....though these are just kids so who knows.
there's probably 100s of videos like this on the internet that's just girl on girl action (go ahead, make your jokes)
Volleyball concussions aren't uncommon though. I know quite a few people that had their bell rung by a ball.
Here's an article i found that provides more insight
So it's not really new territory...and this analysis wasn't really done with transgender in mind.
However, i do think the person in question does have an athletic advantage...though I honestly don't see it in the video...I just see a better skilled player swinging on a slow blocker and defender....and honestly....i wouldn't even have known it was a girl if i just watched the video alone. :)
Are impaired vision, partial paralysis on the right side of her body, headaches, anxiety and depression all common? Are they all common a year and a half later?
(08-26-2023, 04:47 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What's your point, that injuries happen in every sport? Sure they do, and the severity of such injuries only increases when you allow a competitor that is genetically stronger to enter the competition. It's like allowing someone to bring a .22 long rifle to a BB gun war.
I would be interested in any data you might have in support of that claim, especially in regard to volleyball.
(08-26-2023, 04:56 PM)Lucidus Wrote: I would be interested in any data you might have in support of that claim, especially in regard to volleyball.
No, no we're not going to do that. Simple secondary educational science is enough to tell you that longer levers powered by a greater muscle density have a lot more striking force. Biological males have no business competing in sports leagues for biological females.
Since you are so interested in scheduling a scholarly debate, where is your evidence showing the opposite of my claim?
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(08-26-2023, 04:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: So what? Are you actually arguing that biological men are not stronger than women? The knots you guys tie yourselves into to avoid stating simple facts on this issue is as impressive as it is disheartening. Biological men competing in sport against biological women is inherently unfair, there is no way this can be disputed. Especially when you are allowed to self identify, as many, if not most blue states allow.
Without falsely asserting points I haven't made and using terms like you guys, could you provide data supporting biological males having an inherent advantage in women's volleyball; which is the particular sport I'm referencing?
As to self-identifying; what is the issue you see with that? What do you see as a more accurate means of identity?
(08-26-2023, 04:47 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What's your point, that injuries happen in every sport? Sure they do, and the severity of such injuries only increases when you allow a competitor that is genetically stronger to enter the competition. It's like allowing someone to bring a .22 long rifle to a BB gun war.
I'm brain damaged and even I understand this lol
I don't see how other people are so blinded by simple facts and logic.
(08-26-2023, 04:56 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Are impaired vision, partial paralysis on the right side of her body, headaches, anxiety and depression all common? Are they all common a year and a half later?
aside from the paralysis, you're describing concussion symptoms as a whole...so I would say, yes, it's possible? I don't think concussions discriminate on their symptoms
Also, I'm dating a girl that literally has permanent damage from taking volleyballs to the head (multiple volleyball concussions) in high school and college (things like light and noise sensitivity)...and those injuries happened about a decade ago? so at least in my small sample size, it's totally possible.
-The only bengals fan that has never set foot in Cincinnati 1-15-22
(08-26-2023, 05:03 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Without falsely asserting points I haven't made and using terms like you guys, could you could provide data supporting biological males having an inherent advantage in women's volleyball; which is the particular sport I'm referencing?
As to self-identifying; what is the issue you see with that? What do you see as a more accurate means of identity?
(08-26-2023, 05:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No, no we're not going to do that. Simple secondary educational science is enough to tell you that longer levers powered by a greater muscle density have a lot more striking force. Biological males have no business competing in sports leagues for biological females.
Since you are so interested in scheduling a scholarly debate, where is your evidence showing the opposite of my claim?
You made a very specific claim. It seems you would have evidence to support that claim. If you don't, that's fine, but then it's merely a belief.
When you ask someone to disprove your claim, you are failing to comprehend the burden of proof.
(08-26-2023, 05:12 PM)basballguy Wrote: aside from the paralysis, you're describing concussion symptoms as a whole...so I would say, yes, it's possible? I don't think concussions discriminate on their symptoms
Also, I'm dating a girl that literally has permanent damage from taking volleyballs to the head (multiple volleyball concussions) in high school and college (things like light and noise sensitivity)...and those injuries happened about a decade ago? so at least in my small sample size, it's totally possible.
This was one shot to the head, not shots all through high school and college.
(08-26-2023, 05:19 PM)Lucidus Wrote: You made a very specific claim. It seems you would have evidence to support that claim. If you don't, that's fine, but then it's merely a belief.
When you ask someone to disprove your claim, you are failing to comprehend the burden of proof.
See, I did give you evidence, evidence based upon common knowledge of Science. What do you have to counter basic Science?
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
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