The men lift almost twice as much in things like bench as their female counterparts around the same weight.
Why divert to power lifting when we were discussing volleyball? That is a separate discussion we can have, but it's important to understand that each sport is unique and possible advantages can be far more and far less pronounced.
(08-26-2023, 05:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: See, I did give you evidence, evidence based upon common knowledge of Science. What do you have to counter basic Science?
Are you aware of any scientific studies stating that transgender men have an unfair advantage in women's volleyball? If it's indeed common knowledge, then there should be adequate research and studies for us to consider pertaining to your claim.
(08-26-2023, 05:03 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Without falsely asserting points I haven't made and using terms like you guys, could you could provide data supporting biological males having an inherent advantage in women's volleyball; which is the particular sport I'm referencing?
Seriously? You can literally watch men and women's volleyball and need me to explain the difference in speed and strength? Again, this is where yur side of this issue come off looking foolish. No adult needs an explanation about how the vast majority of men are significantly stronger than the vast majority of women.
Quote:As to self-identifying; what is the issue you see with that? What do you see as a more accurate means of identity?
The issue with it is it allows a person to state they are a man or a woman on a whim. I could call my cat a dog, but it's still a cat. Again, you want to live as whatever you want to identify as, I have no problem. The minute you start treating women unfairly I have an issue with it, and men competing in women's sports is unfair. I'm a physically fit man who is over 6 feet tall. If I decided to be a woman starting now California would allow it with no proof required. I could then play in a woman's sport and beat the dog crap out of them and I'm closing in on fifty. That this can actually occur is insane. The woman's national soccer team lost to a team of boys under the age of fifteen, and it wasn't even close.
As I have answered your questions, please kindly answer mine.
1. Are men largely much more physically strong than women?
2. Are men largely taller and weigh more than women?
3. Why do women have separate sports leagues than men?
Please note that the word "biological" can be assumed to appear before all instance of men and women in those questions.
(08-26-2023, 05:36 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Are you aware of any scientific studies stating that transgender men have an unfair advantage in women's volleyball? If it's indeed common knowledge, then there should be adequate research and studies for us to consider pertaining to your claim.
Since you don't understand basic Science, or at least fail to accept it's validity, here's a fun video narrated by a Professor who will make it all easy to understand.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(08-26-2023, 05:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Since you don't understand basic Science, or at least fail to accept it's validity, here's a fun video narrated by a Professor who will make it all easy to understand.
This post isn't about volleyball, hence it is off topic.
(08-26-2023, 02:34 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I’ve never heard of one, so you tell me because you’re trying to make it sound like it’s a common occurrence, so please show me how many times a year high school girls are injured that badly on similar plays.
All I asked for was context...was this an unusual injury in volleyball? Could this injury or has this same injury occurred in other players regardless of who hit the ball?
You are trying to make it like this injury was unusual...prove to us it was
(08-26-2023, 05:47 PM)pally Wrote: All I asked for was context...was this an unusual injury in volleyball? Could this injury or has this same injury occurred in other players regardless of who hit the ball?
You are trying to make it like this injury was unusual...prove to us it was
Is the injury unusual? Probably not. Is it more severe than the usual injury of its sort, absolutely yes. Let's use the sport of football, since all of us here are more familiar with it. Say there is a woman's tackle league. Say a biological man of the same physicality as this volleyball player plays in said league. He then lays a woman out and causes a severe concussion and whiplash. Are these injuries uncommon in the sport of football? Absolutely not. Is a person who is significantly larger and stronger than every other participant in the sport more likely to cause those injuries? Absolutely yes. When said individual causes those injuries are they more likely to be severe? Absolutely yes.
Your argument is the equivalent of saying the NFL should have no rules for hitting helmet to helmet since concussions are a common occurrence in the sport regardless. The rules are in place to mitigate both the frequency and severity of their occurrence as the risk of injury cannot be removed entirely. The exact same point can be used to prevent biological men from playing in women's sports.
(08-26-2023, 05:31 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Why divert to power lifting when we were discussing volleyball? That is a separate discussion we can have, but it's important to understand that each sport is unique and possible advantages can be far more and far less pronounced.
Because we're talking about the physical advantages men have over women and you claimed there was none, but that proves that there is.
(08-26-2023, 05:47 PM)pally Wrote: All I asked for was context...was this an unusual injury in volleyball? Could this injury or has this same injury occurred in other players regardless of who hit the ball?
You are trying to make it like this injury was unusual...prove to us it was
Concussions are typical in volleyball, but not ones with lasting effects more than a month.
Constant headaches a year and a half later aren't common.
Partial paralysis and impaired vision are also unusual (unheard of).
Keep in mind that those are also from repeated blows to the head causing concussions, not just one, and I have never heard of damage from one hit lasting a year and a half and I searched.
(08-23-2023, 12:24 PM)basballguy Wrote: I think if you're going to say this behavior is happening (especially in terms of dishonesty and inflammatory comments) you should give some specific examples....maybe a running thread of "here's what not to do or say and why"....you can start with me if you want
I don't think there's a single person in this forum that posts dishonest information. I do think there is a huge segment of posters that talk out of their ass trying to pass off anecdotal experiences as fact. In that sense those individuals could probably come off as being dishonest but I doubt there's negative intentions behind it.
So we're now "dinging" people for what they say about public figures? I feel like that would get every user of this forum banned based on what they've said about Biden and Trump over the years.
Moderating what people say about public figures is a dangerously slippery slope if you are an advocate for independent conversation like you imply here.
Moderating users based on what they say about public figures is an awful idea and will not allow for neutral moderation. If done correctly, every user on this forum would be banned within a week for shit they say about DJT and JB alone.
-----------
Personally, the tone of this thread seems focused on going after conservative posters.
Thank you baseballguy, I appreciate your words that was very nice of you. I hope I don't get dinged expressing my opinion of your post.
I have to be very careful how I write this post, but I am going into the lion's den with my opinion, for what it's worth.
I know that this is a privately owned website and with that, the fact that Dylan Mulvaney is NOT a public figure is legally questionable. That said I got dinged NOT by making fun of a member on this website but by posting an image from Bud Light's marketing team[from the New York Post]. The same marketing team that caused Anheuser-Busch to lose Billions of Dollars. That image coupled with Bid Light's former advertisement commercial "Real Men of Genious".That marketing team that by the way has since been fired. That marketing team will be written about and in Textbooks for the rest of time in Marketing courses of what NOT to do. That Bud Light marketing image, comment "Real Men of Genious" with the person Dylan who I put my law degree up against is a Public Figure. I was told that Dylan Mulvaney was NOT a Public Figure. I was dinged by posting my opinion of the smartness of the marketing team and Dylan as well as another ding after I warned another fellow member, not to misgender transgenders otherwise he would be dinged as I was. Result I got dinged again and his post was removed although I don't know if he got dinged.
Had I known there was a law on this website about misgendering a public figure on this website I would not gone there, but it is not on the CoC and although it is posted on a thread now that's after the fact for me. As someone who follows the legal field closely if a public/private entity provides a law, I typically adhere to it, but being punished for a law after it is published is ex post facto.
Example of Ex post facto law
Imagine that in 2020, a city has a speed limit of 60 miles per hour on its highways. People who drove within this speed limit were obeying the law. However, in 2022, the city council passes a new law that retroactively lowers the speed limit on highways to 45 miles per hour and imposes hefty fines for those who drove over this new limit, even before the law was enacted. Drivers who had previously driven at or below 60 miles per hour could now be fined for actions that were legal when they occurred. This situation would exemplify an ex post facto law, as it punishes individuals for actions that were legal when they took place but were later made illegal retroactively.
If I ever post on Dylan again, I will respect the wishes of this website and not call him a man, but I will call Dylan a person. I hope that is ok.
Since we are addressing people's interest in what they call themselves, ironically I have empathy for Rachel Dolezal, a Public Figure who identified herself as black even though she was born white. She was raked over the coals by the media and some organizations. I have a strong feeling if I was to join the chorus and blasting her I would not be dinged but be recognized as a Hall of Fame member. Back to the media and other organizations, what they failed to write and complain about Rachel was that her husband was black with whom she has a black child, she also has adopted siblings that are black. So if the media criticizes her identifying as black it is okay, but when Dylan identifies as a woman, crickets??? Well, you won't hear crickets from more than half the country, can you say Bud Light Sales down?
I like Rachel, "You go girl".
Since people are obsessed with "science" let's go there. When the conversation is about sex chromosomes excluding persons who are born intersex[congenital eunuchs] there are XX[female] and XY[male]. PERIOD. Before I receive backlash that there are 20-50+ chromosomes, I am strictly stating sex chromosomes, that is all.
Now racial identities via "science". Years ago the old racist democrats were frustrated when people of color wrote on census forms that they were not black, but mulattos this enraged the racist folks. So they came up with the one-drop rule, which is if you have one drop of black in you are black.
Well that "science" solved that issue for the racists in those days. As of the 1930s's the claiming of the identity Mulatto was unfortunately stopped.
So what does this mean? It means that in regards to race, the government uses "science" when someone tries to use a race identity[one-drop rule], but with sex gender where we have real science as in XX and XY chromosomes and someone identifies opposite of their birth certificate, you have some people blowing their top. Whatever happened to the slogan "Trust the Science" as in XX and XY sex chromosomes?
Finally, this is supposed to be a Political and Religious forum, where if a person who identifies as a strong Muslim/Christian/Jewish, their views also matter with their Holy books, the Quran, the Bible, and the Tanakh, their views should be are tolerated and respected also. Religious views matter.
(08-27-2023, 05:59 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Thank you baseballguy, I appreciate your words that was very nice of you. I hope I don't get dinged expressing my opinion of your post.
I have to be very careful how I write this post, but I am going into the lion's den with my opinion, for what it's worth.
I know that this is a privately owned website and with that, the fact that Dylan Mulvaney is NOT a public figure is legally questionable. That said I got dinged NOT by making fun of a member on this website but by posting an image from Bud Light's marketing team[from the New York Post]. The same marketing team that caused Anheuser-Busch to lose Billions of Dollars. That image coupled with Bid Light's former advertisement commercial "Real Men of Genious".That marketing team that by the way has since been fired. That marketing team will be written about and in Textbooks for the rest of time in Marketing courses of what NOT to do. That Bud Light marketing image, comment "Real Men of Genious" with the person Dylan who I put my law degree up against is a Public Figure. I was told that Dylan Mulvaney was NOT a Public Figure. I was dinged by posting my opinion of the smartness of the marketing team and Dylan as well as another ding after I warned another fellow member, not to misgender transgenders otherwise he would be dinged as I was. Result I got dinged again and his post was removed although I don't know if he got dinged.
Had I known there was a law on this website about misgendering a public figure on this website I would not gone there, but it is not on the CoC and although it is posted on a thread now that's after the fact for me. As someone who follows the legal field closely if a public/private entity provides a law, I typically adhere to it, but being punished for a law after it is published is ex post facto.
Example of Ex post facto law
Imagine that in 2020, a city has a speed limit of 60 miles per hour on its highways. People who drove within this speed limit were obeying the law. However, in 2022, the city council passes a new law that retroactively lowers the speed limit on highways to 45 miles per hour and imposes hefty fines for those who drove over this new limit, even before the law was enacted. Drivers who had previously driven at or below 60 miles per hour could now be fined for actions that were legal when they occurred. This situation would exemplify an ex post facto law, as it punishes individuals for actions that were legal when they took place but were later made illegal retroactively.
If I ever post on Dylan again, I will respect the wishes of this website and not call him a man, but I will call Dylan a person. I hope that is ok.
Since we are addressing people's interest in what they call themselves, ironically I have empathy for Rachel Dolezal, a Public Figure who identified herself as black even though she was born white. She was raked over the coals by the media and some organizations. I have a strong feeling if I was to join the chorus and blasting her I would not be dinged but be recognized as a Hall of Fame member. Back to the media and other organizations, what they failed to write and complain about Rachel was that her husband was black with whom she has a black child, she also has adopted siblings that are black. So if the media criticizes her identifying as black it is okay, but when Dylan identifies as a woman, crickets??? Well, you won't hear crickets from more than half the country, can you say Bud Light Sales down?
I like Rachel, "You go girl".
Since people are obsessed with "science" let's go there. When the conversation is about sex chromosomes excluding persons who are born intersex[congenital eunuchs] there are XX[female] and XY[male]. PERIOD. Before I receive backlash that there are 20-50+ chromosomes, I am strictly stating sex chromosomes, that is all.
Now racial identities via "science". Years ago the old racist democrats were frustrated when people of color wrote on census forms that they were not black, but mulattos this enraged the racist folks. So they came up with the one-drop rule, which is if you have one drop of black in you are black.
Well that "science" solved that issue for the racists in those days. As of the 1930s's the claiming of the identity Mulatto was unfortunately stopped.
So what does this mean? It means that in regards to race, the government uses "science" when someone tries to use a race identity[one-drop rule], but with sex gender where we have real science as in XX and XY chromosomes and someone identifies opposite of their birth certificate, you have some people blowing their top. Whatever happened to the slogan "Trust the Science" as in XX and XY sex chromosomes?
Finally, this is supposed to be a Political and Religious forum, where if a person who identifies as a strong Muslim/Christian/Jewish, their views also matter with their Holy books, the Quran, the Bible, and the Tanakh, their views should be are tolerated and respected also. Religious views matter.
While, thankfully, this isn't my board to moderate, a fundamental principle, sometimes unwritten, of just about any message board/forum/group I've participated in has been "don't be a d**k".
By misgendering a person publicly known to be transgender, and continuing to do so in this half-baked justification post, any person of reasonable judgement can see it as a violation of the CoC.
If that's not a good enough start for you, then google it for College and HS levels where they are also dominating.
As if you actually give a shit about biological women.
Oh wow - 24 out of THOUSANDS. What a pandemic of unfair advantage going on. We should definitely be concerned about this.
As I said 0.000001%. But leave it to conservatives to make a mountain out of a molehill to distract that they're busy trying to take away women's choice of self. But gotta protect their sports that they don't give a half a shit about, amiright?
Don't you worry your pretty little heads - little Clara wasn't getting that scholarship even if she wasn't competing against dudes.
Our father, who art in Hell
Unhallowed, be thy name
Cursed be thy sons and daughters
Of our nemesis who are to blame
Thy kingdom come, Nema
(08-27-2023, 11:24 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Our world is so far away from reasonable judgement it's not even funny.
Speaking of...
(08-27-2023, 11:31 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Oh wow - 24 out of THOUSANDS. What a pandemic of unfair advantage going on. We should definitely be concerned about this.
As I said 0.000001%. But leave it to conservatives to make a mountain out of a molehill to distract that they're busy trying to take away women's choice of self. But gotta protect their sports that they don't give a half a shit about, amiright?
Don't you worry your pretty little heads - little Clara wasn't getting that scholarship even if she wasn't competing against dudes.
(08-27-2023, 09:32 AM)pally Wrote: Census forms are political not science
Never said census forms were science.
Please read carefully what I wrote. The old democrats used the one-drop blood rule as science and then used it to justify the census as it still stands to this day.
Just like some folks used the Coronavirus as science and then used it to justify for closing the country.
(08-26-2023, 03:54 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Concussions are very common in Volleyball, what you are ignoring is the SPEED that it traveled.
Kim Yeon-koung, a South Korean volleyball player, holds the record for the fastest recorded spike speed at 77 miles per hour (124 kilometers per hour). She was in her mid-20's when she did this at the 2012 Olympics.
The HS Aged Trans-girl that you are talking about that also spiked it and was recorded at a speed of about 70 mph. The avg Male's Spike speed is between 70-80 mph.
The average kill speed for a high school volleyball player is around 40-50 mph. Players at this level typically haven't developed the skill set to spike faster yet.
(08-26-2023, 05:36 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Are you aware of any scientific studies stating that transgender men have an unfair advantage in women's volleyball? If it's indeed common knowledge, then there should be adequate research and studies for us to consider pertaining to your claim.
Is there a reason why you ignored what i posted in relations to the speed of the ball in Volley ball when comparing men vs women?
Just because there is no DIRECT studies, doesn't mean that there isn't an advantage. What we already know is that Men and Women's bodies are not the same. Bone Structure, Muscle development and BMI, heart and lung capacity are not the same.
This is a study that was done simply on grip strength, showing how even after HT's, and a decrease in grip strength that trans women were still on the 95% percentile vs biological women on grip strength.
The largest decrease in grip strength for transwomen took place in the last 3 months of HT, while the largest change for transmen took place in the first 3 months. The change in transmen is in line with a randomized controlled trial that shows an increase in strength in the first 6 months, after the use of testosterone in healthy men ≥60 years old (17). Interestingly, the time difference of the slow loss of grip strength in transwomen and the fast increase in transmen is opposite of what is observed for strength with training and detraining. It might possibly take longer for muscles to decrease in proteins due to lack of testosterone, than it is to increase due to administration of testosterone. However, to fully understand the difference, more research is necessary. After 12 months, the median grip strength of transwomen still falls into the 95th percentile for age-matched females. The median grip strength of transmen after 12 months falls into the 25th percentile of age-matched males (18). Thus, transwomen are still stronger than average females and transmen are still weaker than average males.
Can you provide information showing that there is no advantage for Trans Women over Biological females (in volleyball of course)?
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