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Rand and Rubio Drive GOP Debate
#1
http://spectator.org/articles/62730/rand-and-rubio-drive-debate

Interesting article on where the GOP is heading and how these two are setting the debate.

Quote:The Republican Party plans to pare down its presidential primary-season debates from 20 in 2012 to less than half that this go-around. No matter. The candidates, two of them at least, appear ready to drive the debate before any formal such event takes place.

“I think there’s a consistent theme here that every candidate should be asked,” Rand Paul told CNN’s audience this week, “and that is: Is it a go-ahead idea to go into the Middle East, topple governments, and hope something better rises out of the chaos? Because recent history seems to show that—you know what?—we’re not getting something better, we’re getting something worse.”

There’s something fundamentally conservative in the libertarian’s answer. When I interviewed the Students for a Democratic Society’s first president Al Haber for A Conservative History of the American Left, I asked him in his book-filled living room to define the motivating idea behind the Left: “What is the better world possible?” Rand Paul asks conservatives to consider the worse world possible.

Staking out a position at the other end of the Republican spectrum, Florida Senator Marco Rubio forcefully and articulately articulated the case for force in front of the Council on Foreign Relations. Saying “foreign policy is domestic policy,” Rubio argued: “We must recognize that our nation is a global leader not just because it has superior arms, but because it has superior aims. America is the first power in history motivated by a desire to expand freedom rather than its own territory.”

Rubio and Paul’s remarks ostensibly respond to the recent miscues of former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, who has offered several conflicting answers on whether he would have invaded Iraq. Each senator really engages the other rather than Bush.


The two youngish candidates, impressing on style and substance even if displaying conflicting styles and ideas, offer arguments against experience, albeit experience of two altogether different sorts.

Rubio’s rhetoric runs into the humbling experiences wrought from a bold nation-building campaign in the Middle East. Conversely, the modern Republican Party, always for increased military strength and increasingly hawkish, seems to offer an infertile ground for Paul to grow his candidacy.

Republicans intuitively grasp how results rarely match intentions in domestic programs. This lesson appears lost on foreign policy. Not learning from recent Middle Eastern interventions (from full-scale invasion to air support to material assistance) in Iraq, Libya, and Syria means repeating mistakes and birthing a world at odds with the one envisioned. Like Charlie Brown giving it another go at a field goal, Republicans seem always ready for another kick and never willing to ponder the reasons why they missed the last time—forever anticipating an Arab Spring instead of an ISIS Winter.

The reasons conservatives don’t like government intervention in the United States don’t carry over into objections to interventions abroad. The same skeptics who scoff at the idea of a government postman delivering the mail on time become starry-eyed idealists when discussing the notion of an invasion transforming half-a-world-away Muhammadans into Vermont-style town-meeting members.

So Paul faces a more formidable challenge than Rubio. Staking out a minority position within a big tent of candidates can work in the early caucuses and primaries. But when the field narrows, as his father discovered, his intense support may not broaden. And though it may be clear to independents that Iraq played as a major cause of the GOP losing control of the White House, true-believing Republicans, the type who disproportionately vote in primaries, tend to blame past defeats more on external factors rather than internal defects.

A restrained, cautious—one might say “conservative”—common sense used to be more common among conservatives. Surely the leaders conservatives profess to admire exhibited this trait.

George Washington’s “disinterested warnings of a parting friend” asked: “Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground?” British Conservative Party pioneer Benjamin Disraeli pursued a winning policy of “splendid isolation.” Robert Taft, “Mr. Republican,” counseled his countrymen to “never forget what an awful catastrophe war is.” Even Ronald Reagan, in cutting losses in Lebanon and restricting support for the Afghan rebels and Nicaraguan Contras to material and rhetorical aid, appears positively dovish next to those who frequently invoke his name.

Republicans may need to change to win. But the candidate representing that change faces a challenge winning over Republicans.
#2
Rubio will get the rank and file support as they generally like trying to expand the empire. And they'll attack rand over it as his policy is to be less involved.
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#3
The young bloods represent very different directions for the future of the GOP. Rand would have them be more libertarian and attract youth. Rubio would have them embrace the Neo Con ideas of the past and lose youth voters.

the GOP needs to decide if they want to alienate old people and close minded people and actually survive or keep catering to those people.
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#4
(05-17-2015, 10:58 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The young bloods represent very different directions for the future of the GOP. Rand would have them be more libertarian and attract youth. Rubio would have them embrace the Neo Con ideas of the past and lose youth voters.

the GOP needs to decide if they want to alienate old people and close minded people and actually survive or keep catering to those people.

Agreed. Rand is winning most toss up states. And he would crush a general, it would actually force the Dems to go more socialist....
#5
(05-17-2015, 02:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Agreed.   Rand is winning most toss up states.   And he would crush a general, it would actually force the Dems to go more socialist....

Rand can do well in the general. Many in the GOP (and DNC) want to paint him as unelectable, but he is absolutely electable.

He wouldn't be my first pic, but I wouldn't be unhappy. I don't know if he is going to force the Dems to go towards the left, but he represents a more center view, so he might force them to go more in that direction. Though, I really don't like thinking of things as just a binary left or right. It's more involved than that and more complicated. We move left and right along a spectrum on different areas (economic, socially, militaristic, etc).
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[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
#6
(05-17-2015, 11:22 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Rand can do well in the general. Many in the GOP (and DNC) want to paint him as unelectable, but he is absolutely electable.

He wouldn't be my first pic, but I wouldn't be unhappy. I don't know if he is going to force the Dems to go towards the left, but he represents a more center view, so he might force them to go more in that direction. Though, I really don't like thinking of things as just a binary left or right. It's more involved than that and more complicated. We move left and right along a spectrum on different areas (economic, socially, militaristic, etc).

I can agree with that.... Each area has its own scope.





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