Rank our WRs

[Essex Johnson]

(05-24-2016, 02:00 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Pretty much, Brown.

Vast majority of great players you know fairly early. 2 years or so.

well I will agree with that .. we knew AJ was great after about 2 years or so.

[bengalsturntup5532]

I put average and that's me being optimistic. Reason being is we know we got aj green,and eeven he has his flaws we can talk about. Lefell is a mystery man to me, they said he was good for new England,but then they wanted to move away from him and even went after sanu for replacement. They say he drops a lot going deep,that he has hands of stone, I mean that's two opposites right there,I don't think he's going to be a deep threat,he wI'll be a slant and yac guy. Now on too Boyd,we needed a receiver bad in the draft,some one to contribute ASAP. I like his catch radius and hands,but he's not replacing Jones deep threat either.the rest of the wrs on the team are also unknown.so I just went with the safe 15,they could be better,or they could be worse!

[Savagehenry54]

(05-23-2016, 10:53 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: So I guess we are completely disregarding Eiffert during these rankings?

I mean, I know you said wide receivers, but Eiffert is one of our top receiving weapons on offense...

Between him and Aj and Dalton spreading it around, lafell and Boyd are gonna post solid numbers as the third and fourth receiving options.

Are we ranking strictly wrs in pure talent or projecting statistical production in the coming season.

We could just add up the yards and tds of all the given we groups from last year I guess.

For my money, unless your other starter is garbage, Aj gets you in the top 12 at least, whether just perceived talent, by the numbers or whatever.

Boyd and Lafell are competing for third option which I think is a solid position for the team to be after losing Jones and Sanu.

All things considered I think this will be a top ten Corp all day.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-24-2016, 09:33 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Because the rest of the post was silly. I'm not saying Boyd will be a OBJ. He's just easily going to cover the very little production Sanu had. There's a lot more WRs that have potential that comes out of college that goes over 400 yards 0 TDs than there isn't.

And contracts don't mean anything. If it did then people like Tom Brady would be making a LOT more money. Saying someone is getting paid more than other person and that's why they're better is a horrible argument.

That wasn't my argument at all, but I'm not surprised you didn't understand since your reading comprehension is pretty low (or maybe didn't even read it at all). Teams valued MLJ and Sanu more than Lafell, and that's facts as you say. You can't argue that those teams overpaid for Jones, since Cincy would have paid the same for Jones (which came out of their own mouths) AKA they DO think Jones is better than Lafell. If you are still reading (i'm impressed!) then I wish you would go back and read what I have been f****** saying this whole post. I'm not saying Jones is that much better than Lafell, I'm saying Jones fit his role here. We don't know if Lafell will compliment Green as well as Jones did. He has done well elsewhere and will have a good opportunity to do well here, but until it actually happens they are worse at that position than last year.

Also, I'm curious, just out of the blue. If Green, Lafell and Eifert all went down with injuries for whatever reason this year, how well do you think Boyd will do? Throw me a statline for like 10 games of Boyd alone out there.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

We don't know what we have yet so i voted middle of the pack.

Eifert is having surgery and i always think about the TE when ranking WR's nowadayz. Eifert is pretty much a WR
and lines up as one lots in games. But Green is great, Lafell is a bid bodied receiver that is good after the catch and
has been productive in the NFL. Our rookies look good but they are rookies and that is why i say middle of the pack.

Core and Russell are very intriguing to me and Adam Jones has been talking about how impressive they both are.

Boyd has great hands and i think will make a great Slot receiver for us down the road, but he is still a rookie.

I also like Alford and Kumerow but we have yet to see anything out of them.

[Brownshoe]

(05-25-2016, 11:46 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: That wasn't my argument at all, but I'm not surprised you didn't understand since your reading comprehension is pretty low (or maybe didn't even read it at all). Teams valued MLJ and Sanu more than Lafell, and that's facts as you say. You can't argue that those teams overpaid for Jones, since Cincy would have paid the same for Jones (which came out of their own mouths) AKA they DO think Jones is better than Lafell. If you are still reading (i'm impressed!) then I wish you would go back and read what I have been f****** saying this whole post. I'm not saying Jones is that much better than Lafell, I'm saying Jones fit his role here. We don't know if Lafell will compliment Green as well as Jones did. He has done well elsewhere and will have a good opportunity to do well here, but until it actually happens they are worse at that position than last year.

Also, I'm curious, just out of the blue. If Green, Lafell and Eifert all went down with injuries for whatever reason this year, how well do you think Boyd will do? Throw me a statline for like 10 games of Boyd alone out there.

The amount of money isn't the same as the organization thinking that the played is valued higher. LaFell was released form the patriots well after free agency started, and most teams already spent their free agency money, so prices for players go down. I'm sure you would know that if you knew how football free agency worked, but it seems like you don't. Not a big surprise at all really. The fact that you're just assuming that they're worse players just because he's getting paid more "AKA they DO think Jones is better than LaFell" because of his contract is pretty silly honestly. Plus, you don't know if LaFell will be a better fit in our system or not. You're just blindly guessing, and then assuming you're correct.

It really doesn't matter how well I think Boyd would do w/o Green, LaFell, and Eifert since that's a very unlikely scenario. It's asking a question that there's no way to show if it was going to be true by the end of the year, unless that very unlikely scenario happens.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-25-2016, 07:02 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The amount of money isn't the same as the organization thinking that the played is valued higher. LaFell was released form the patriots well after free agency started, and most teams already spent their free agency money, so prices for players go down. I'm sure you would know that if you knew how football free agency worked, but it seems like you don't. Not a big surprise at all really. The fact that you're just assuming that they're worse players just because he's getting paid more "AKA they DO think Jones is better than LaFell" because of his contract is pretty silly honestly. Plus, you don't know if LaFell will be a better fit in our system or not. You're just blindly guessing, and then assuming you're correct.

It really doesn't matter how well I think Boyd would do w/o Green, LaFell, and Eifert since that's a very unlikely scenario. It's asking a question that there's no way to show if it was going to be true by the end of the year, unless that very unlikely scenario happens.

Deflection deflection deflection.

If anyone is blindly guessing, its you, but what can I expect form the most blind homer on this board. I DO KNOW what MLJ and Sanu did here in this offense, I don't know what Lafell is capable of doing in this offense, that makes you the one guessing. Also once again, you completely disregard that my argument is about how teams value players, not about the money given to them but about the potential that other teams pay outright more for. You telling me that if Lafell was there at the opening of FA that the Lions or Flacons would have paid the same or more for him? No, my point is perfectly valid, you just don't want to admit it because it would make you wrong.

The comment about Boyd was to point out that Sanu was able to produce under the worst circumstances. You keep bringing up Sanu's 400 yards and 0Tds, but what do you expect from the 4th sometimes 5th option on most passing plays. Of course Sanu didn't produce when there are the options of Green, Eifert, Jones, and Gio all hungry for the ball. However, when all of those were gone and Sanu was called upon, he had a decent season. Do you think Boyd can do that? mmmm DEFLECTION.

It's ok, tell me how 'silly' I am, and try to make yourself feel better. The way you debate isn't healthy for anyone involved.

[Brownshoe]

(05-25-2016, 07:15 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Deflection deflection deflection.

If anyone is blindly guessing, its you, but what can I expect form the most blind homer on this board. I DO KNOW what MLJ and Sanu did here in this offense, I don't know what Lafell is capable of doing in this offense, that makes you the one guessing. Also once again, you completely disregard that my argument is about how teams value players, not about the money given to them but about the potential that other teams pay outright more for. You telling me that if Lafell was there at the opening of FA that the Lions or Flacons would have paid the same or more for him? No, my point is perfectly valid, you just don't want to admit it because it would make you wrong.

The comment about Boyd was to point out that Sanu was able to produce under the worst circumstances. You keep bringing up Sanu's 400 yards and 0Tds, but what do you expect from the 4th sometimes 5th option on most passing plays. Of course Sanu didn't produce when there are the options of Green, Eifert, Jones, and Gio all hungry for the ball. However, when all of those were gone and Sanu was called upon, he had a decent season. Do you think Boyd can do that? mmmm DEFLECTION.

It's ok, tell me how 'silly' I am, and try to make yourself feel better. The way you debate isn't healthy for anyone involved.

I'm not guessing. I know that LaFell has produced more than Jones in his career. I know that LaFell has been more durable than Jones in his career. A good offense can make any player fit in their system, and when LaFell has proven that he's statistically better than Jones it's easy to fit him in the system. Obviously the Bengals think that LaFell fits just fine in the system, otherwise they wouldn't have signed him. Yes, LaFell would have been given a similar deal as Jones or Sanu (maybe even more) if he was on the market when teams still had free agency money in their coffers.

Boyd would probably have better stats than Sanu if he was in Sanu's circumstances. For one, I know that Boyd wouldn't have even close to the drop rate as Sanu did that year (the highest drop % in the league with at least 50 receptions). With a Green out there just as a decoy, and the run gaming going off like it did would make it easy for any receiver to do that.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-25-2016, 07:35 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I'm not guessing. I know that LaFell has produced more than Jones in his career. I know that LaFell has been more durable than Jones in his career. A good offense can make any player fit in their system, and when LaFell has proven that he's statistically better than Jones it's easy to fit him in the system. Obviously the Bengals think that LaFell fits just fine in the system, otherwise they wouldn't have signed him. Yes, LaFell would have been given a similar deal as Jones or Sanu (maybe even more) if he was on the market when teams still had free agency money in their coffers.

Boyd would probably have better stats than Sanu if he was in Sanu's circumstances. For one, I know that Boyd wouldn't have even close to the drop rate as Sanu did that year (the highest drop % in the league with at least 50 receptions). With a Green out there just as a decoy, and the run gaming going off like it did would make it easy for any receiver to do that.

Lafell needs a new agent and the Bengals made out like bandits! You sir, are so blind.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-26-2016, 01:08 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote:

Lafell needs a new agent and the Bengals made out like bandits! You sir, are so blind.

To be fair the Falcons overpaid for Sanu big time.

We did not overpay for Lafell and he has twice the NFL production that Sanu does.

I would say the Bengals did pretty well here.

Sanu had a lot of drops here as well and with Boyd's hands you could say this should be an upgrade.

We will see but i can see some of what Brownshoe is sayin.

[Brownshoe]

(05-26-2016, 01:08 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote:

Lafell needs a new agent and the Bengals made out like bandits! You sir, are so blind.

Yes, the Bengals made out like bandits. You know why? (apparently you don't, because you don't know anything about how the free agency market works). Because teams already spent their money on players. After a few weeks prices for players go down, and you know what? The patriots didn't release him for at least a month after. That means that what he's going to get paid goes way down, because teams that there looking for WRs already spent their money. At least try to know a little about what you're talking about before you start an argument with someone.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-26-2016, 01:08 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote:

Lafell needs a new agent and the Bengals made out like bandits! You sir, are so blind.

I can sincerely say that I believe LaFell > Sanu. 

Just because the Falcons foolishly and desperately overpaid doesn't mean he's a better player.

And fwiw, I think the Lions overpaid for MLJ thanks to the sudden retirement of Calvin. I have a good feeling that LaFell is going to put up 700+ yards, look like a total bargain, and some of you will be eating your words by December.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-26-2016, 08:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I can sincerely say that I believe LaFell > Sanu. 

Just because the Falcons foolishly and desperately overpaid doesn't mean he's a better player.

And fwiw, I think the Lions overpaid for MLJ thanks to the sudden retirement of Calvin. I have a good feeling that LaFell is going to put up 700+ yards, look like a total bargain, and some of you will be eating your words by December.

I tend to agree.  LaFell is at the least, good material to have to work with.  When you add in the fact that he is going to be the complimentary receiver to one of the best in the league, and Andy Dalton is a fully mature veteran, I'd be willing to bet that LaFell will have good production this season.  Then, when you factor in Eifert having the ankle surgery, LaFell's physical stature will be another asset to compliment Green in the Red Zone.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-26-2016, 08:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I tend to agree.  LaFell is at the least, good material to have to work with.  When you add in the fact that he is going to be the complimentary receiver to one of the best in the league, and Andy Dalton is a fully mature veteran, I'd be willing to bet that LaFell will have good production this season.  Then, when you factor in Eifert having the ankle surgery, LaFell's physical stature will be another asset to compliment Green in the Red Zone.

700 yards might actually be a conservative estimate if Eifert misses significant time. Like you said, LaFell's size (and versatility - he can play slot and outside) might make him someone Dalton has to lean on while Eifert is out.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-26-2016, 08:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I can sincerely say that I believe LaFell > Sanu. 

Just because the Falcons foolishly and desperately overpaid doesn't mean he's a better player.

And fwiw, I think the Lions overpaid for MLJ thanks to the sudden retirement of Calvin. I have a good feeling that LaFell is going to put up 700+ yards, look like a total bargain, and some of you will be eating your words by December.

People just misinterpret everything that happens on this board.

If I think MLJ is better than Lafell, it doesn't mean I don't think Lafell can put up 700+ yards and be a bargain. It means that if MLJ was here I think he would put up more yards and more TDs.

Lafell > Sanu, certainly, but Lafell came in to replace MLJ, not Sanu. I do agree with you that both teams overpaid for those guys, and I don't really believe this WR class was a strong one in FA this year.

However, I still believe the combination of Sanu + Jones would be a better fit THIS YEAR than Boyd + Lafell.



These rankings are so subjective anyways, did anyone even bother to look at the receiving rankings from last year???
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/stats/teamsort/nfl/year-2015-season-regular-category-receiving-type-offense

If you sort it by YDS/G Cinci is around 18th. Does that mean they have the 18th best WR core? I don't think so, but one could argue that. If that is the case, mixed with the notion that I have that Boyd/Lafell < Sanu/MLJ for this year, a WR group ranking in the 20s doesn't seem too far fetched.

We can sit here and claim our WR group was top 10 last year, but were they really? It's totally subjective based on the type of offense teams play. So are we ranking these groups off of production, or the potential production if each team threw the ball 50 times a game???

[Shake n Blake]

(05-27-2016, 11:47 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: People just misinterpret everything that happens on this board.

If I think MLJ is better than Lafell, it doesn't mean I don't think Lafell can put up 700+ yards and be a bargain. It means that if MLJ was here I think he would put up more yards and more TDs.

Lafell > Sanu, certainly, but Lafell came in to replace MLJ, not Sanu. I do agree with you that both teams overpaid for those guys, and I don't really believe this WR class was a strong one in FA this year.

However, I still believe the combination of Sanu + Jones would be a better fit THIS YEAR than Boyd + Lafell.

Of course MLJ + Sanu would be a better fit for 2016. LaFell is going to need a little time to get comfortable and Boyd is a rookie. We're comparing these two with a couple guys that spent 4 years in our system building chemistry.

That said, I don't think there's going to be much difference production-wise. 390 yards and 0 TDs (Sanu) should be easy to eclipse for Boyd. MLJ had 816 yards and 4 scores last year. I'm very confident LaFell can come close to matching those totals.

The biggest difference isn't going to be in production. We're probably going to see a few miscommunications early on. LaFell will probably have (literally) a couple more bounce of his hands. Not a huge deal at all. It might affect a small handful of drives. LaFell and Boyd could also have strengths that MLJ and Sanu didn't have. Boyd has better hands than Sanu. LaFell has championship experience and is bigger/more physical than MLJ.

I realize that there is potential for some drop off. I just think that people may be exaggerating how steep that drop off will be. At this point I have enough faith in the coaches and Andy Dalton to believe they will make the transition easier. I have faith that our scouts coaches, etc made the right choices in Boyd and LaFell. Just as they did when they drafted MLJ and Sanu.

[Brownshoe]

(05-27-2016, 01:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Of course MLJ + Sanu would be a better fit for 2016. LaFell is going to need a little time to get comfortable and Boyd is a rookie. We're comparing these two with a couple guys that spent 4 years in our system building chemistry.

That said, I don't think there's going to be much difference production-wise. 390 yards and 0 TDs (Sanu) should be easy to eclipse for Boyd. MLJ had 816 yards and 4 scores last year. I'm very confident LaFell can come close to matching those totals.

The biggest difference isn't going to be in production. We're probably going to see a few miscommunications early on. LaFell will probably have (literally) a couple more bounce of his hands. Not a huge deal at all. It might affect a small handful of drives. LaFell and Boyd could also have strengths that MLJ and Sanu didn't have. Boyd has better hands than Sanu. LaFell has championship experience and is bigger/more physical than MLJ.

I realize that there is potential for some drop off. I just think that people may be exaggerating how steep that drop off will be. At this point I have enough faith in the coaches and Andy Dalton to believe they will make the transition easier. I have faith that our scouts coaches, etc made the right choices in Boyd and LaFell. Just as they did when they drafted MLJ and Sanu.

MJ and Sanu might have more chemistry with Dalton, but with a new OC comes a new system. Gruden's system was different than Hue's, and it would be silly to think that Zampese will have the same system as Hue. That's why LaFell / Boyd could fit our system better than Jones / Sanu.