Rats Fleeing the Sinking Ship

[Belsnickel]

So, Elaine Chao and now Betsy DeVos have resigned as well as a number of staffers. All of them trying to save face after enabling Trump this whole time and trying to hold on to some semblance of dignity. In my view, they deserve no applause for taking a stand, now, when the warning signs were there from the very beginning.

[Benton]

Is it really taking a stand when you wait until after the damage is done to say you didn't support it?

[Belsnickel]

(01-07-2021, 11:31 PM)Benton Wrote: Is it really taking a stand when you wait until after the damage is done to say you didn't support it?

No, but that is the way it's being spun.

[CJD]

They're the worst of the bunch. They're not only despicable people, but also cowards.

[SunsetBengal]

**** the Government! They haven't been "of the people, for the people" for quite some time. Bunch of money grubbing leaches that sell out to the highest bidders. The first time that 1 guy that already has money, genuinely wants to help the working class comes around, the entire political world aligns against him. Even most of those who posed to back him, only did so in hopes of advancing their own political futures. I hope they all go broke, as politics shouldn't be a career at any level. It should be a term or two of SERVICE, and then a return to a traditional vocation.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Saving face is exactly what it is, But at the end of the day what really matters is this is the death knell of Trumpism.

[Benton]

(01-07-2021, 11:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: **** the Government!  They haven't been "of the people, for the people" for quite some time.  Bunch of money grubbing leaches that sell out to the highest bidders.  The first time that 1 guy that already has money, genuinely wants to help the working class comes around, the entire political world aligns against him.  Even most of those who posed to back him, only did so in hopes of advancing their own political futures.  I hope they all go broke, as politics shouldn't be a career at any level.  It should be a term or two of SERVICE, and then a return to a traditional vocation.

I don't want to derail the thread, but Trump wasn't any better than previous elected officials as far as helping out the working class. Top earners and big companies got tax breaks. Trade deals got negotiated to help other countries. Subsidy relief to industries impacted by his decisions was basically just taxing people and giving them back their own money.

We haven't had a POTUS for the working class since.. FDR maybe?

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(01-07-2021, 11:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: **** the Government!  They haven't been "of the people, for the people" for quite some time.  Bunch of money grubbing leaches that sell out to the highest bidders.  The first time that 1 guy that already has money, genuinely wants to help the working class comes around, the entire political world aligns against him.  Even most of those who posed to back him, only did so in hopes of advancing their own political futures.  I hope they all go broke, as politics shouldn't be a career at any level.  It should be a term or two of SERVICE, and then a return to a traditional vocation.

I have no problem with term limits.

But serious question . . . you say that he wants to help the working class . . . why do you think the political world aligns against him?

Bonus question: What is it about him that's positive that you see that most of us don't see?

Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to learn.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-07-2021, 11:57 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I have no problem with term limits.

But serious question . . . you say that he wants to help the working class . . . why do you think the political world aligns against him?

Bonus question: What is it about him that's positive that you see that most of us don't see?

Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to learn.

Yes you are, it's evident in the pompous way you phrase your "questions".  

[SunsetBengal]

(01-07-2021, 11:55 PM)Benton Wrote: I don't want to derail the thread, but Trump wasn't any better than previous elected officials as far as helping out the working class. Top earners and big companies got tax breaks. Trade deals got negotiated to help other countries. Subsidy relief to industries impacted by his decisions was basically just taxing people and giving them back their own money.

We haven't had a POTUS for the working class since.. FDR maybe?

I'm not sure about your family, but my paycheck went up after the Trump tax cuts.  I kept my withholding allowance the same as previous, and it was about break even on tax time.

[Millhouse]

Maybe they arent taking a stand, but want to leave in case Pence actually does invoke the 25th, and they wont have to vote on it. I dont think he will, even though apparently he was fuming mad last night at Trump and at what happened.

[Benton]

(01-08-2021, 12:02 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not sure about your family, but my paycheck went up after the Trump tax cuts.  I kept my withholding allowance the same as previous, and it was about break even on tax time.

I lost a chunk because of being a small business owner. Not make or break, but his tax plan was great for big companies, not so great for small business owners. On top of that, Kentucky's lawmakers a couple years ago (right after I started the business) expanded what was taxed. They said it wasn't raising taxes, they were just taxing more stuff. Well, when you're doing negotiations, clients don't really care if you have to pay $X in taxes... they got the service for less a few years ago, they want it at that price.

So, yeah, we ended up paying more in taxes.

Of course, then the pandemic hit, which closed my doors after several months of trying to tread water and keep it alive. The state was pretty good. I could've applied for unemployment as small business owner, but didn't think that was right. But the federal response and Trump's in particular pisses me off. Things would've gotten better faster if we'd had a clear response and plan. Instead it was months of 'don't worry, its' not coming; don't worry, you can't catch it; don't listen to your state leaders, you don't need a mask; I'm not wearing a mask, it's not a real virus.'

I don't blame Trump for 'Rona. But I do blame him for how long it's taking to get over the impact of being ill prepared and politicizing it. If he'd done his job and not appointed real estate developers to handle a medical pandemic, maybe I wouldn't be shutting my business down.

[BmorePat87]

(01-08-2021, 12:16 AM)Benton Wrote: I lost a chunk because of being a small business owner. Not make or break, but his tax plan was great for big companies, not so great for small business owners. On top of that, Kentucky's lawmakers a couple years ago (right after I started the business) expanded what was taxed. They said it wasn't raising taxes, they were just taxing more stuff. Well, when you're doing negotiations, clients don't really care if you have to pay $X in taxes... they got the service for less a few years ago, they want it at that price.

So, yeah, we ended up paying more in taxes.

Of course, then the pandemic hit, which closed my doors after several months of trying to tread water and keep it alive. The state was pretty good. I could've applied for unemployment as small business owner, but didn't think that was right. But the federal response and Trump's in particular pisses me off. Things would've gotten better faster if we'd had a clear response and plan. Instead it was months of 'don't worry, its' not coming; don't worry, you can't catch it; don't listen to your state leaders, you don't need a mask; I'm not wearing a mask, it's not a real virus.'

I don't blame Trump for 'Rona. But I do blame him for how long it's taking to get over the impact of being ill prepared and politicizing it. If he'd done his job and not appointed real estate developers to handle a medical pandemic, maybe I wouldn't be shutting my business down.

Not to mention the tax cuts ballooned the deficit and completely diminished our ability to respond to the inevitable recession once the credit bubble bursts. The working class will be devastated by the next recession, as will small businesses.

[BmorePat87]

They’re all cowards. You knew who he was. You were enthusiastic accomplices.

If they had any integrity they’d stay to remove him.

[CKwi88]

(01-08-2021, 12:02 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not sure about your family, but my paycheck went up after the Trump tax cuts.  I kept my withholding allowance the same as previous, and it was about break even on tax time.

Well....at least you know how much your integrity costs I guess.

[Benton]

(01-08-2021, 01:12 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Not to mention the tax cuts ballooned the deficit and completely diminished our ability to respond to the inevitable recession once the credit bubble bursts. The working class will be devastated by the next recession, as will small businesses.

That last part was the kicker for me.

I'm not an economic expert but the signs are there. Were heading for a recession. My wife and I talked about trying to keep the business going, but it's like what's the point? The economy is going to shrink in a couple years (probably) which means I'd just be prolonging things and taking on more debt.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

This is standard MO for the end of a Republican administration.

Bush I only got one term after leading America to it's most one sided military victory in it's history. Why? "It's the economy, stupid." That's the election that phrase came from. 12 years of trickle down economics damn near left a economic wasteland.

Bush II left a spiraling economy with Banks nearly crashing, a housing market crash and $4 a gallon gasoline. The gas prices forced all goods to cost more as it cost more to get their materials to their shops/warehouses to create their goods and then more cost to get their products to consumers.

Trump. You can blame Covid . . . I'll blame the failed response to Covid.

[BigPapaKain]

(01-08-2021, 12:12 AM)Millhouse Wrote: Maybe they arent taking a stand, but want to leave in case Pence actually does invoke the 25th, and they wont have to vote on it. I dont think he will, even though apparently he was fuming mad last night at Trump and at what happened.

Mother must've told him to stand by on that invocation. 

I realize it'd mostly be done for optics at this point, but I feel like invoking the 25th and impeachment Trump would send a pretty strong message about what transpired and how the government would handle it going forward. It won't happen because they're all cowards, but it'd be nice to see.

[GMDino]

(01-07-2021, 11:57 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I have no problem with term limits.

But serious question . . . you say that he wants to help the working class . . . why do you think the political world aligns against him?

Bonus question: What is it about him that's positive that you see that most of us don't see?

Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to learn.

Sane people align against him.  A whole bunch of Republicans backed him because he helped them stay in office and pass a bill or two and get some SC seats. 

The second question has been asked repeatedly and the answers range from "He's not a politician", "He'll do things differently" to "he owns the libs".

I understood people who didn't like Clinton so they went with the "lesser of two evils" even if I knew they were wrong because Trump was evil.  It's the cult members who just "love" Trump, ignore everything he ever did, said or is still doing and saying.  There is a delusion there that is dangerous for the country.

(01-08-2021, 12:00 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes you are, it's evident in the pompous way you phrase your "questions".  

Tone is difficult to get from the written word.

[GMDino]

(01-08-2021, 01:12 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: They’re all cowards. You knew who he was. You were enthusiastic accomplices.

If they had any integrity they’d stay to remove him.

I had a thought this morning as I listened to one of the podcasts I follow:

Do you think Trump had/has a plan to step down Jan 20, get Pence quickly sworn in and have Pence issue the pardons for him and his family/cronies and then not only be able to skate but take a bunch of attention away from Biden/Harris?

That's the kind of crazy think he would do.  I don't know if Pence will want to follow through with it after the events of 1/6 but you never know.