Recent attacks on Trans Americans by the Trump admin

[*bfine32*]

(06-17-2020, 02:34 PM)hollodero Wrote: It also does not conform with your overwhelming and omnipresent attempts to play gotcha and accuse liberals on the board of misdeeds.

And so it's a turned into a page-lomg "discussion" about chief justices not being part of a particular administration. Provoked by, I don't know, I guess you wanting to prove that the OP said something wrong somehow?

Talk about derailing a thread.

-- @ topic btw., yeah all rights to trans people, except for competing in sports and neglecting biology for PC.

Simply found it to be contradictory; others did not. And i still find the assertions in the Op and the decision made by SCOTUS to be contradictory. I agree 100% with SCOUTUS' ruling.

Hell I told Matt a page ago I was good with no longer discussing it, but it seems others wanted to; including the very next thread. Hell, my next response on the matter was to applaud Fred for his response. Be careful where you point that finger. Sorry for my "derailment" let's get back on track. What's the thread about again? 

[BmorePat87]

Back on topic:

https://fortune.com/2020/06/15/supreme-court-lgbtq-discrimination-ruling-vote-decision-scotus-transgender-health-care-protections-obama-trump-law-gorsuch/


Fortune looked at how the SCOTUS ruling could hinder attempts by the administration to undermine protections for the LGBT community.

The Admin stated: "HHS will enforce Section 1557 by returning to the government’s interpretation of sex discrimination according to the plain meaning of the word ‘sex’ as male or female and as determined by biology,”

The decision hurts the administration's suggestion that they will only view it by the definition used by the government as the courts now view discrimination on the basis of gender identity and sexual orientation to be forms of sex based discrimination.

There are some other arguments the administration could use, such as religious freedom or by saying these rules are based off of different laws (though very similar laws). If the Courts were to hear a challenge, however, it is hard to see how they would not immediately defer to their recent ruling, especially given the fact that it was a textualist decision and the primary argument given by the administration is based on a textual interpretation.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-17-2020, 02:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, you got me. It didn't conform to my bias..

or

You could have read the sentence in the post you didn't bold.

It was a 6-3 majority opinion. The other justices joining the majority were appointed by Clinton, Obama, and Bush. The Chief Justice assigns who authors the majority opinion. Kavanaugh was among the three who dissented.

Yet, you’ve made no attempt to give any credit to any administration other than Trump’s simply because Gorsuch was assigned to write the opinion like homework. Plus Kavanaugh’s dissenting opinion pretty much cancels out Gorsuch’s opinion.

So, yeah, despite all the facts it’s pretty easy to see that for a guy who never defends Trump you’re desperate to invent ways to praise Trump when he doesn’t deserve the credit because of your bias.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-12-2020, 10:14 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This first one was months in the making, but the Office for Civil Rights for the Dept of Education has decided that CT allowing trans athletes to compete is a violation of Title IX as it prevents girls from having equal access to sports. The lawsuit was supported by an extremist anti-LGBT group. The Dept of Ed has warned CT to abandon its policy or lose federal funding.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/06/12/opinion/title-ix-transgender-athletes/

The other story involves the Office for Civil Rights for HHS whose notoriously anti-LGBT chief Roger Severino finalized a rule that would remove protection against discrimination on the basis on gender identity from the ACA.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/868073068/transgender-health-protections-reversed-by-trump-administration

I'm not totally following why you think its unfair for (ps I'm not up to date on the various definitions) a trans woman to compete against biological females.

Take all the hormone pills you want, lower the testosterone levels and  even post-op these traits never disappear;

Men naturally have a larger bone structure, higher bone density, stronger connective tissue and higher muscle density than women.

This is purely a biological stance. 
In all other areas of life, yes protection is important. Such as work, marriage etc. No issues with any of that. 

[Belsnickel]

(06-18-2020, 12:28 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I'm not totally following why you think its unfair for (ps I'm not up to date on the various definitions) a trans woman to compete against biological females.

Take all the hormone pills you want, lower the testosterone levels and  even post-op these traits never disappear;

Men naturally have a larger bone structure, higher bone density, stronger connective tissue and higher muscle density than women.

This is purely a biological stance. 
In all other areas of life, yes protection is important. Such as work, marriage etc. No issues with any of that. 

This is what HRT changes, though. When they give a trans woman blockers and estrogen it actually changes the bone structure over time. This is why some sports organizations put minimums on the time a person has been on HRT.

[BmorePat87]

(06-18-2020, 12:28 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I'm not totally following why you think its unfair for (ps I'm not up to date on the various definitions) a trans woman to compete against biological females.

Take all the hormone pills you want, lower the testosterone levels and  even post-op these traits never disappear;

Men naturally have a larger bone structure, higher bone density, stronger connective tissue and higher muscle density than women.

This is purely a biological stance. 
In all other areas of life, yes protection is important. Such as work, marriage etc. No issues with any of that. 

Hormone therapy for trans women has shown to decrease bone density and increase fat mass, so it's false to say that hormone therapy does not change those traits. Scientists have also argued that retaining a larger bone structure while decreasing muscle density can be a disadvantage in many sports. 

There's no scientific consensus and results will always vary based on the individual and the sport, but if we're just looking at the rule, especially given the recent SCOTUS ruling, discrimination on the basis of gender identity is sex based discrimination. The idea that allowing trans athletes is sex based discrimination against cis women is a far bigger leap.  

[BmorePat87]

These horrible & politically charged decisions coming out of the Supreme Court are shotgun blasts into the face of people that are proud to call themselves Republicans or Conservatives. We need more Justices or we will lose our 2nd. Amendment & everything else. Vote Trump 2020!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 18, 2020

Yea, the conservatives who cannot fire someone for being gay are the real victims...

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-18-2020, 12:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is what HRT changes, though. When they give a trans woman blockers and estrogen it actually changes the bone structure over time. This is why some sports organizations put minimums on the time a person has been on HRT.

It might redistribute your fat-muscle ratios, but that just hides the bone structure. It affects everyone differently and there is no real conclusive evidence. 

But, if it works as you say, then why do we not hear about trans men beating out biological males? I mean what your saying is that it equalizes the field right?

Besides, I don't believe that HRT can completely over ride Testosterone. It is deigned to keep the testosterone at a certain level.

Have you ever competed? There is a major adrenaline/testosterone boost at the start of an event, courtesy of the bodies "fight or flight" mode. At that moment, those levels are exceeded and eventually will return to the norm range, problem is, men out produce women by 10-20% in their testosterone levels to begin with. Or are you telling me that HRT blocks 100% of testosterone?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-18-2020, 12:53 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote:

These horrible & politically charged decisions coming out of the Supreme Court are shotgun blasts into the face of people that are proud to call themselves Republicans or Conservatives. We need more Justices or we will lose our 2nd. Amendment & everything else. Vote Trump 2020!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 18, 2020

Yea, the conservatives who cannot fire someone for being gay are the real victims...

Does Trump’s administration get credit for a SCOTUS majority decision because the Chief Justice assigned Gorsuch the task of writing the majority opinion despite Trump’s other SCOTUS appointee’s dissent and Trump’s characterization of the decision as a shot gun blast to his face?