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Recommended Reading
#1
https://www.amazon.com/Cant-Happen-Here-Signet-Classics/dp/0451465644

[Image: 220px-ItCantHappenHere.jpg]

and

The Third Wave (experiment)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the social experiment. For other uses, see Third wave (disambiguation).
[Image: 50px-Question_book-new.svg.png]
The Third Wave was an experimental social movement created by California high school history teacher Ron Jones to explain how the German population could accept the actions of the Nazi regime during the Second World War.[1][2] While he taught his students about Nazi Germany during his "Contemporary World History" class, Jones found it difficult to explain how the German people could accept the actions of the Nazis, and decided to create a social movement as a demonstration of the appeal of fascism. Over the course of five days, Jones conducted a series of exercises in his classroom emphasizing discipline and community, intended to model certain characteristics of the Nazi movement. As the movement grew outside his class and began to number in the hundreds, Jones began to feel that the movement had spiraled out of control. He convinced the students to attend a rally where he claimed the announcement of a Third Wave presidential candidate would be televised. Upon their arrival, the students were presented with a blank channel. Jones told his students of the true nature of the movement as an experiment in fascism, and presented to them a short film discussing the actions of Nazi Germany.[3]

Background to the Third Wave experiment
The experiment took place at Cubberley High School in Palo Alto, California, during the first week of April 1967.[1] Jones, finding himself unable to explain to his students how the German population could have claimed ignorance of the The Holocaust, decided to demonstrate it to them instead.[3] Jones started a movement called "The Third Wave" and told his students that the movement aimed to eliminate democracy.[1] The idea that democracy emphasizes individuality was considered as a drawback of democracy, and Jones emphasized this main point of the movement in its motto: "Strength through discipline, strength through community, strength through action, strength through pride."[1]
The experiment was not well documented at the time. Of contemporary sources, the experiment is only mentioned in the Cubberley High School student newspaper, The Cubberley Catamount. It is only briefly mentioned in two issues,[4][5] and one more issue of the paper has a longer article about this experiment at its conclusion.[1] Jones himself wrote a detailed account of the experiment some nine years afterwards[3] and more articles about the experiment followed, including some interviews with Jones and the original students.[2]
Chronology
First day
Jones writes that he started the first day of the experiment with simple things such as proper seating and extensively drilling the students.[3] He then proceeded to enforce strict classroom discipline by emerging as an authoritarian figure and dramatically improving the efficiency of the class.
The first day's session was closed with only a few rules, intending to be a one-day experiment. Students had to be sitting at attention before the second bell, had to stand up to ask or answer questions and had to do it in three words or fewer, and were required to preface each remark with "Mr. Jones".[3]
Second day
On the second day, he managed to meld his history class into a group with a supreme sense of discipline and community. Jones based the name of his movement, "The Third Wave", on the supposed fact that the third in a series of waves is the strongest.[3] Jones made up a salute involving a cupped hand reaching across the chest toward the opposite shoulder[3] and resembling a Hitler salute[1] and ordered class members to salute each other even outside the class. They all complied with this command.[3]
Third day
The experiment took on a life of its own, with students from all over the school joining in: on the third day, the class expanded from initial 30 students to 43 attendees. All of the students showed drastic improvement in their academic skills and tremendous motivation. All of the students were issued a member card, and each of them received a special assignment, like designing a Third Wave Banner, stopping non-members from entering the class, or the like. Jones instructed the students on how to initiate new members, and by the end of the day the movement had over 200 participants.[3] Jones was surprised that some of the students started reporting to him when other members of the movement failed to abide by the rules.[3]
Fourth day
On Thursday, the fourth day of the experiment, Jones decided to terminate the movement because it was slipping out of his control. The students became increasingly involved in the project and their discipline and loyalty to the project was outstanding. He announced to the participants that this movement was a part of a nationwide movement and that on the next day a presidential candidate of the Third Wave would publicly announce its existence. Jones ordered students to attend a noon rally on Friday to witness the announcement.[3]
Fifth and last day
Instead of a televised address of their leader, the students were presented with an empty channel. After a few minutes of waiting, Jones announced that they had been a part of an experiment in fascism and that they all willingly created a sense of superiority like German citizens had in the period of Nazi Germany. He then played them a film about the Nazi regime to conclude the experiment.[3]
Afterwards
On October 10, 2010, a film documentary, Lesson Plan, retelling the story of the Third Wave through interviews with the original students and teacher, debuted at the Mill Valley Film Festival.[6] It was produced by Philip Neel, one of Jones's own former students.
Dramatizations
The events of the experiment were adapted into a 1981 US TV special, The Wave, and a US young-adult novelization by Todd Strasser (who used the pen name "Morton Rhue" in Europe). The 2008 German film Die Welle transferred the experiment to a modern-day German classroom to critical acclaim.
The Season 13 episode of Arthur, "The Pride of Lakewood", was loosely based on the Third Wave experiment, but instead involved students forming a community pride group which eventually becomes fascistic.
In 2010, Jones staged a musical called The Wave, written with some of the students in the class


Anyone read the Lewis novel? I understand it and 1984 are flying off shelves now.

What about the television special in the 1980's dramatizing The Third Wave experiment? Anyone see that? It was pretty good as I recall.
JOHN ROBERTS: From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice... I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
#2
(01-31-2017, 01:44 PM)xxlt Wrote: https://www.amazon.com/Cant-Happen-Here-Signet-Classics/dp/0451465644

[Image: 220px-ItCantHappenHere.jpg]

and

The Third Wave (experiment)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the social experiment. For other uses, see Third wave (disambiguation).
[Image: 50px-Question_book-new.svg.png]
The Third Wave was an experimental social movement created by California high school history teacher Ron Jones to explain how the German population could accept the actions of the Nazi regime during the Second World War.[1][2] While he taught his students about Nazi Germany during his "Contemporary World History" class, Jones found it difficult to explain how the German people could accept the actions of the Nazis, and decided to create a social movement as a demonstration of the appeal of fascism. Over the course of five days, Jones conducted a series of exercises in his classroom emphasizing discipline and community, intended to model certain characteristics of the Nazi movement. As the movement grew outside his class and began to number in the hundreds, Jones began to feel that the movement had spiraled out of control. He convinced the students to attend a rally where he claimed the announcement of a Third Wave presidential candidate would be televised. Upon their arrival, the students were presented with a blank channel. Jones told his students of the true nature of the movement as an experiment in fascism, and presented to them a short film discussing the actions of Nazi Germany.[3]

Background to the Third Wave experiment
The experiment took place at Cubberley High School in Palo Alto, California, during the first week of April 1967.[1] Jones, finding himself unable to explain to his students how the German population could have claimed ignorance of the The Holocaust, decided to demonstrate it to them instead.[3] Jones started a movement called "The Third Wave" and told his students that the movement aimed to eliminate democracy.[1] The idea that democracy emphasizes individuality was considered as a drawback of democracy, and Jones emphasized this main point of the movement in its motto: "Strength through discipline, strength through community, strength through action, strength through pride."[1]
The experiment was not well documented at the time. Of contemporary sources, the experiment is only mentioned in the Cubberley High School student newspaper, The Cubberley Catamount. It is only briefly mentioned in two issues,[4][5] and one more issue of the paper has a longer article about this experiment at its conclusion.[1] Jones himself wrote a detailed account of the experiment some nine years afterwards[3] and more articles about the experiment followed, including some interviews with Jones and the original students.[2]
Chronology
First day
Jones writes that he started the first day of the experiment with simple things such as proper seating and extensively drilling the students.[3] He then proceeded to enforce strict classroom discipline by emerging as an authoritarian figure and dramatically improving the efficiency of the class.
The first day's session was closed with only a few rules, intending to be a one-day experiment. Students had to be sitting at attention before the second bell, had to stand up to ask or answer questions and had to do it in three words or fewer, and were required to preface each remark with "Mr. Jones".[3]
Second day
On the second day, he managed to meld his history class into a group with a supreme sense of discipline and community. Jones based the name of his movement, "The Third Wave", on the supposed fact that the third in a series of waves is the strongest.[3] Jones made up a salute involving a cupped hand reaching across the chest toward the opposite shoulder[3] and resembling a Hitler salute[1] and ordered class members to salute each other even outside the class. They all complied with this command.[3]
Third day
The experiment took on a life of its own, with students from all over the school joining in: on the third day, the class expanded from initial 30 students to 43 attendees. All of the students showed drastic improvement in their academic skills and tremendous motivation. All of the students were issued a member card, and each of them received a special assignment, like designing a Third Wave Banner, stopping non-members from entering the class, or the like. Jones instructed the students on how to initiate new members, and by the end of the day the movement had over 200 participants.[3] Jones was surprised that some of the students started reporting to him when other members of the movement failed to abide by the rules.[3]
Fourth day
On Thursday, the fourth day of the experiment, Jones decided to terminate the movement because it was slipping out of his control. The students became increasingly involved in the project and their discipline and loyalty to the project was outstanding. He announced to the participants that this movement was a part of a nationwide movement and that on the next day a presidential candidate of the Third Wave would publicly announce its existence. Jones ordered students to attend a noon rally on Friday to witness the announcement.[3]
Fifth and last day
Instead of a televised address of their leader, the students were presented with an empty channel. After a few minutes of waiting, Jones announced that they had been a part of an experiment in fascism and that they all willingly created a sense of superiority like German citizens had in the period of Nazi Germany. He then played them a film about the Nazi regime to conclude the experiment.[3]
Afterwards
On October 10, 2010, a film documentary, Lesson Plan, retelling the story of the Third Wave through interviews with the original students and teacher, debuted at the Mill Valley Film Festival.[6] It was produced by Philip Neel, one of Jones's own former students.
Dramatizations
The events of the experiment were adapted into a 1981 US TV special, The Wave, and a US young-adult novelization by Todd Strasser (who used the pen name "Morton Rhue" in Europe). The 2008 German film Die Welle transferred the experiment to a modern-day German classroom to critical acclaim.
The Season 13 episode of Arthur, "The Pride of Lakewood", was loosely based on the Third Wave experiment, but instead involved students forming a community pride group which eventually becomes fascistic.
In 2010, Jones staged a musical called The Wave, written with some of the students in the class


Anyone read the Lewis novel? I understand it and 1984 are flying off shelves now.

What about the television special in the 1980's dramatizing The Third Wave experiment? Anyone see that? It was pretty good as I recall.

Trump can't even shake Obama's hands as he arrives to the White House without people crying that he didn't wait for his wife and you expect that someone like him can make themselves a dictator in America? 

Our country is so divided, the only way someone could rise and become a dictator in America is only after some devastating catastrophe that has almost totally destroyed the country and the world. 
[Image: giphy.gif]
#3
Is this in relation to the BLM movement and 'Hands Up', that might some day over take our youth and society?
“Don't give up. Don't ever give up.” - Jimmy V

[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
#4
(01-31-2017, 02:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Trump can't even shake Obama's hands as he arrives to the White House without people crying that he didn't wait for his wife and you expect that someone like him can make themselves a dictator in America? 

Our country is so divided, the only way someone could rise and become a dictator in America is only after some devastating catastrophe that has almost totally destroyed the country and the world. 

Wow, good analysis.

But, here's some more: https://thewayofimprovement.com/2017/01/29/historian-heather-cox-richardson-on-trumps-muslim-ban-its-a-shock-event/

It's almost like Trump and Bannon created this shock event to deepen those divisions you mentioned and set the table for some devastating catastrophe like you described so...

But, you didn't really think you were right, did you?
JOHN ROBERTS: From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice... I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
#5
(01-31-2017, 02:50 PM)xxlt Wrote: Wow, good analysis.

But, here's some more: https://thewayofimprovement.com/2017/01/29/historian-heather-cox-richardson-on-trumps-muslim-ban-its-a-shock-event/

It's almost like Trump and Bannon created this shock event to deepen those divisions you mentioned and set the table for some devastating catastrophe like you described so...

But, you didn't really think you were right, did you?

Whatever, dude. Have fun worrying about becoming a dictator-led country. I've always thought everyone should have a dream.  ThumbsUp
[Image: giphy.gif]
#6
(01-31-2017, 03:13 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Whatever, dude. Have fun worrying about becoming a dictator-led country. I've always thought everyone should have a dream.  ThumbsUp

Thanks for making the point. I'm reminded of the old saying, "Sometimes it is hard to hear what you are saying because who you are speaks so loudly." :andy:
JOHN ROBERTS: From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice... I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
#7
(01-31-2017, 04:24 PM)xxlt Wrote: Thanks for making the point. I'm reminded of the old saying, "Sometimes it is hard to hear what you are saying because who you are speaks so loudly." :andy:

Hey Philhos and XXLT, I think you are both making good points, not necessarily contradictory.

It seems to me quite possible that an American-style fascist-tending party could be emerging in the US. The authoritarian personality and style of Trump seem more important to his followers than specific policies--except those involving ethnic exclusions. It would not likely follow previous patterns though. For one, it's members would deny any comparison to Hitler and racism. They might spend a lot of energy trying to flip those charges back on their opponents. But like Hitler and Goebbels, they would be "gaslighting" the public wherever possible, challenging objective reporting and intel which did not further their purposes, and seeking to deligitimate the press and sources of public information they cannot control.

On the other hand, the US has so many checks within government, and so many anti-fascists, that I don't see anything like a Nazi-style seizure of power by one party on the horizon. Trump can't shut down CNN and the NYT the way Hitler could. Trump is far more like impulsive and unruly SA leader Ernst Roehm than than the very focused and disciplined Hitler. This randomness and incompetence at governing will put off a lot of Americans, even sympathetic ones. Further, Americans for the most part have a distaste for masses of people marching together in uniform--unless they are returning home from a war. 

That doesn't mean that the New Republican Party under Trump could not do serious damage to government and US interests domestic and foreign, and produce a depth of division we have not seen since the Civil War. All those tea partiers who were angry at the "establishment" for always fooling them are going to be very very angry when they realize they have been fooled yet again, but it's not clear they learn from repeated mistakes. We should be concerned.
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
#8
(01-31-2017, 01:44 PM)xxlt Wrote: https://www.amazon.com/Cant-Happen-Here-Signet-Classics/dp/0451465644

[Image: 220px-ItCantHappenHere.jpg]


What about the television special in the 1980's dramatizing The Third Wave experiment? Anyone see that? It was pretty good as I recall.

I have heard of the Lewis book but I haven't read it (did read Babbit and Elmer Gantry though!).   Funny I have not heard of the third wave experiment at all. Not surprised it gets an upsurge in sails now. I bet English teachers in every state are making it required reading.
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
#9
(01-31-2017, 02:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Trump can't even shake Obama's hands as he arrives to the White House without people crying that he didn't wait for his wife and you expect that someone like him can make themselves a dictator in America? 

Our country is so divided, the only way someone could rise and become a dictator in America is only after some devastating catastrophe that has almost totally destroyed the country and the world. 

That's the fear with some of Bannon's moves. Personally I think it's unfounded.

 BUT, in the end, it rests with Congress. They are the biggest check against the Executive Branch. My personal concern is in their attempt to scratch their own backs, they'll not provide enough checks for the net few years. Not dictatorship level abuses, but "hey, let's get our due while we can."
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
#10
(02-01-2017, 12:43 AM)Benton Wrote: That's the fear with some of Bannon's moves. Personally I think it's unfounded.

 BUT, in the end, it rests with Congress. They are the biggest check against the Executive Branch. My personal concern is in their attempt to scratch their own backs, they'll not provide enough checks for the net few years. Not dictatorship level abuses, but "hey, let's get our due while we can."

This is rather chilling:

“I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed.

Shocked, I asked him what he meant. “Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.” Bannon was employing Lenin’s strategy for Tea Party populist goals. He included in that group the Republican and Democratic Parties

That came from here: http://www.gq.com/story/steve-bannon-shadow-president
JOHN ROBERTS: From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice... I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
#11
(02-01-2017, 09:40 AM)xxlt Wrote: This is rather chilling:

“I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed.

Shocked, I asked him what he meant. “Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.” Bannon was employing Lenin’s strategy for Tea Party populist goals. He included in that group the Republican and Democratic Parties

That came from here: http://www.gq.com/story/steve-bannon-shadow-president

Those guys that want to "destroy the establishment" and bring it all crashing down always leave off that last part of the sentence:

"And then take power for myself."
[Image: giphy.gif]
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
#12
(01-31-2017, 02:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Our country is so divided, the only way someone could rise and become a dictator in America is only after some devastating catastrophe that has almost totally destroyed the country and the world. 

Maybe that's why he is denying climate change and trying to eliminate all mention f it. 
#13
(02-01-2017, 09:40 AM)xxlt Wrote: “I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed.

Shocked, I asked him what he meant. “Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.” Bannon was employing Lenin’s strategy for Tea Party populist goals. He included in that group the Republican and Democratic Parties

This must be tea party history.

Lenin never wanted to destroy any state. He wrote State and Revolution to explain why Communists needed to keep the bourgeois state intact to protect socialism, the interim between capitalism and communism. He did not want to "bring every thing down." He was a builder.

But it is disturbing that Bannon models himself on an imaginary destructive Lenin, and sits at the right hand of the Commander in chief.
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