Remember that Christian bakery?

[*PhilHos*]

The one that got in trouble for not making a cake for homosexual weddings?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/13-gay-bakeries-refuse-to-make-traditional-marriage-cake-with-the-message-gay-marriage-is-wrong-131479/

Quote:Despite anti-discrimination laws in many states that require Christian bakery owners to bake cakes for same-sex weddings, 13 LGBT and gay-owned bakeries objected to one man's request when he asked if they'd make a pro-traditional marriage cake that would read "gay marriage is wrong." All refused to back the cake and one person even cursed at the Christian man for "hate speech" and said a cake supporting traditional marriage "went against their beliefs."

Blogger Theodore Shoebat, of Shoebat.com, wanted to see if the same level of tolerance that Christian business owners who belive in traditional marriage are required to abide by is also being exemplified at bakeries that advocate for same-sex marriage.

Shoebat set off on a video experiment where he called 13 bakeries, which are all either known as gay-owned bakeries or bakeries that strongly support gay marriage, and told them that he was hosting a pro-traditional marriage celebration and that he needed a cake that says "gay marriage is wrong."

He found that all of the bakeries refused to make him the cake with those words written on top. A few of the bakeries that he called said they'd make him the cake, but he would have to apply the words in icing himself. Other bakers were offended when they heard his request, while some simply said "no" or just hung up the phone.

"I hope you have luck with that, but we won't be able to do that for you," one baker told Shoebat. "I don't believe in being bigoted like that."

Shoebat even called a gay cookie shop called Hot Cookie in San Francisco and asked if they would make him a pizza-sized cookie with "gay marriage is wrong" written on it. The representative of Hot Cookie, who claimed to be a married lesbian, was the most outspoken of any of Shoebat's respondents. After she told Shoebat that the bakery would not make the cookie, Shoebat told her that the bakery must not stand for equality if they're refusing to make a cookie for a Christian who believes homosexuality is wrong.

"Why would we make something that is against what we are working toward?" the Hot Cookie representative asked. "I feel like that is hateful and we are not about that."

Shoebat responded by telling her that although Christian bakers believe that gay marriage is morally wrong, they are still forced to make cakes for the same-sex weddings.

"All of the homosexual activists in California are working to force Christian businesses in California to acquiesce to homosexual opinion and things that they don't agree with," Shoebat asserted. "Technically, you are discriminating against people like me, when you refuse to make a cake that says 'gay marriage is wrong.' … By refusing to make a cake, it's discrimination against those beliefs."

After Shoebat told the woman that it was a form of discrimination not to make his requested cookie, the lady replied sarcastically, saying that the bakery would make the cookie, but her statement lost all sincerity when she said she'd also put a huge phallus design on it.

Two bakeries justified their rejection of Shoebat's request by saying that a cake of that nature would be similar to making erotic cakes, which those bakeries say they do not make.

Most of the other bakeries that Shoebat called replied in a politically correct manner by saying that they could not make the cake that Shoebat was requesting. Although every time Shoebat was denied and tried to start a debate about why the bakery was not standing for equality, most of the representatives just hung up on his pointed ethical questioning.

The majority of short responses that Shoebat recevied from bakery workers noted that his request went against their "belief" in gay marriage.

Some Christian business owners have felt the costly impact of violating their state's anti-discrimination laws after they denied service based on their biblical "belief" in the traditional definition of marriage, which states that marriage is only between one man and one woman.

A Christian bakery in Oregon was fined $150,000 in October after being found guilty of discrimination after refusing to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding.

In August, a New York Christian couple was fined $13,000 by the state for refusing to let a same-sex couple use their farmhouse wedding venue for their ceremony, basing their rejection on their religious belief.

And a photography company in California announced that it will no longer photograph wedding ceremonies after receiving swift backlash from LGBT activists after it was posted on Facebook how they refused to shoot a same-sex wedding based on their beliefs.

"I am a man who believes gay marriage is wrong. Is there no equality for me?" Shoebat asks.

Before you get your panties in a wad, I understand there is a difference between getting a cake that says "Adam & Steve Lastname 2015" and "Gay marriage is wrong". However, the arguments many made against the Christian bakery should be made against most of these bakeries as well.

Thoughts?

[GMDino]

(07-08-2015, 12:35 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The one that got in trouble for not making a cake for homosexual weddings?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/13-gay-bakeries-refuse-to-make-traditional-marriage-cake-with-the-message-gay-marriage-is-wrong-131479/


Before you get your panties in a wad, I understand there is a difference between getting a cake that says "Adam & Steve Lastname  2015" and "Gay marriage is wrong". However, the arguments many made against the Christian bakery should be made against most of these bakeries as well.

Thoughts?

I think you explained pretty well.  Back on the old board everyone went round and round on what should or shouldn't be done on a cake.

I don't think a Christian bakery would or should write "Jesus is a *****" on a cake either.  But, as you said, writing congratulations to so and so is completely different.

[Benton]

(07-08-2015, 12:35 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The one that got in trouble for not making a cake for homosexual weddings?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/13-gay-bakeries-refuse-to-make-traditional-marriage-cake-with-the-message-gay-marriage-is-wrong-131479/


Before you get your panties in a wad, I understand there is a difference between getting a cake that says "Adam & Steve Lastname  2015" and "Gay marriage is wrong". However, the arguments many made against the Christian bakery should be made against most of these bakeries as well.

Thoughts?

What, the arguements that there is a difference between getting a cake that says "Adam & Steve Lastname  2015" and "Gay marriage is wrong"?

[BmorePat87]

(07-08-2015, 01:43 PM)Benton Wrote: What, the arguements that there is a difference between getting a cake that says "Adam & Steve Lastname  2015" and "Gay marriage is wrong"?

Yea, really wasn't sure where PhilHos was going with this. He already explained how they're different. One you can label hate speech while the other you can't.

That's why no one would bat an eye if a Jewish bakery refused to write "the Nazis were right" or a bakery refused to write "Interracial Marriage is Wrong".

[Benton]

(07-08-2015, 02:10 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, really wasn't sure where PhilHos was going with this. He already explained how they're different. One you can label hate speech while the other you can't.

That's why no one would bat an eye if a Jewish bakery refused to write "the Nazis were right" or a bakery refused to write "Interracial Marriage is Wrong".

There was the other thread too where a lot of it spilled over from, if I'm remembering right. The guy who got bent out of shape because he wanted a cake that said something derogatory about homosexuals or women or something, and some of the posters thought it went against his 1st Amendment freedom of speech to not force them to make "the hate cake," but wanted the bakers to avoid "the gay cake" because of their 1st Amendment freedom of religion.

Honestly, I don't see the point in bringing up the thread and the butthurted, knluckleheadedness that ensued.

But, whatever. Have your cake and grouse about it, too.

[XenoMorph]

(07-08-2015, 12:35 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The one that got in trouble for not making a cake for homosexual weddings?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/13-gay-bakeries-refuse-to-make-traditional-marriage-cake-with-the-message-gay-marriage-is-wrong-131479/


Before you get your panties in a wad, I understand there is a difference between getting a cake that says "Adam & Steve Lastname 2015" and "Gay marriage is wrong". However, the arguments many made against the Christian bakery should be made against most of these bakeries as well.

Thoughts?

Kinda like going to a christain bakery and asking for a Cake that says

Hail satan

Its a lot different to refuse to serve someone just because they are gay or straight.

I dont remember the gay couple asking for a cake that said Christianity is Wrong

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-08-2015, 12:35 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The one that got in trouble for not making a cake for homosexual weddings?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/13-gay-bakeries-refuse-to-make-traditional-marriage-cake-with-the-message-gay-marriage-is-wrong-131479/


Before you get your panties in a wad, I understand there is a difference between getting a cake that says "Adam & Steve Lastname  2015" and "Gay marriage is wrong". However, the arguments many made against the Christian bakery should be made against most of these bakeries as well.

Thoughts?

Instead of saying "Gay Marriage is wrong", they should ask to have it say: "I support Traditional Marriage".

That would be hard to prove as "hate speech", but I guess according to the news, it would be considered hate.

[Benton]

(07-08-2015, 04:04 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Instead of saying "Gay Marriage is wrong", they should ask to have it say: "I support Traditional Marriage".

That would be hard to prove as "hate speech", but I guess according to the news, it would be considered hate.

That's a very good point and one I think many would compromise over.

[*bfine32*]

Maybe he wasn't "mentally raped" like his "victims' were.


But to the OP. My opinion is that the decorations on the cake are an expression of the Baker. It the Baker does not want to associate his name/business with the message then he or she should not be required to do so.

This does not mean the Baker is free not to serve you; however, he/she should not be forced to put any message on the product that makes them feel that they are violating their values, beliefs, morals.

[BmorePat87]

(07-08-2015, 02:52 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Kinda like going to a christain bakery and asking for a Cake that says

Hail satan

Its a lot different to refuse to serve someone just because they are gay or straight.

I dont remember the gay couple asking for a cake that said Christianity is Wrong

I don't think you'd get away with refusing "Hail Satan" since it's not hate speech. "Christians are wrong", yea.

(07-08-2015, 04:04 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Instead of saying "Gay Marriage is wrong", they should ask to have it say: "I support Traditional Marriage".

That would be hard to prove as "hate speech", but I guess according to the news, it would be considered hate.

Yea, that shouldn't be refused.

[fredtoast]

This same group called a lot of people who claimed Adrian Peterson was wrong and asked them if it was okay for a father to discipline his child. Anyone who answered "Yes" was labeled as a hypocrite

[fredtoast]

In all seriousness we have not seen the end of issues like this.

Too many people just don't get it. If a gay baker refused to make a cake for a man/woman wedding then he would also get in trouble.

[6andcounting]

The government got itself involved in the business of forcing people to bake cakes with their own resources and also forcing them to use a sugary, sticky cream goop in an aesthetically pleasing decorative manner to cover the bread in a way that doesn't conflict with the social lifestyle and physical attraction preferences of whoever decides they want a cake. I feel so protected.

[Rotobeast]

I'm curious about something.......
I am in no way shape or form comparing one group to another with this question.
I merely want to understand the scope of the law.

Let's say a local Starbucks is frequented by a known convicted pedophile.
Let's say this person stays throughout the busiest part of the day, causing a lot of customers to choose other shops.
As long as the patron continues to enjoy their purchase, can the establishment ask them to leave ?
From my understanding, they cannot.
Granted, the felon had paid their time, but can an establishment be forced to accept a multitude of losses over the rights of one person ?

[BmorePat87]

(07-09-2015, 08:35 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I'm curious about something.......
I am in no way shape or form comparing one group to another with this question.
I merely want to understand the scope of the law.

Let's say a local Starbucks is frequented by a known convicted pedophile.
Let's say this person stays throughout the busiest part of the day, causing a lot of customers to choose other shops.
As long as the patron continues to enjoy their purchase, can the establishment ask them to leave ?
From my understanding, they cannot.
Granted, the felon had paid their time, but can an establishment be forced to accept a multitude of losses over the rights of one person ?

I'm not sure if criminal history is a protected class.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2015, 09:27 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm not sure if criminal history is a protected class.

I'm not sure if Sexual Orientation is either. 

[BmorePat87]

(07-09-2015, 09:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not sure if Sexual Orientation is either. 

Not at the federal level, no. In Colorado it is, though, hence the outcome of that case.

[fredtoast]

(07-09-2015, 09:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not sure if Sexual Orientation is either. 

Wait, are we talking about the "Christian" baker or the "straight" baker?

I could have sworn it was the "Christian" baker who refused to make a cake for these people who did not think gay marriage was a sin.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2015, 10:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wait, are we talking about the "Christian" baker or the "straight" baker?

I could have sworn it was the "Christian" baker who refused to make a cake for these people who did not think gay marriage was a sin.

Well I was countering Pat's reasoning for not answering Roto's hypothetical. 

Not sure of the relevance of this question/comment. 

The OP is actually about a Gay Baker refusing to make a cake for a "Christian".

[fredtoast]

(07-10-2015, 12:11 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Well I was countering Pat's reasoning for not answering Roto's hypothetical. 

Pat gave Roto a direct answer to his question.  Criminal history is not a protected class.

Neither the question nor the answer made any mention of sexual orientation.