Reopening Schools

[BmorePat87]

So schools have become a big topic recently as we're edging closer to August and September.

Trump and DeVos have made this an election issue by claiming that it is an election issue to keep them closed. This of course hurts their attempts to try to withhold funding. As anyone who actually paid attention to the Ukraine scandal knows, the executive cannot withhold (or impound) funds appropriated by Congress without their approval. Even delaying funds requires a reason related to the policy enacted by Congress to be submitted to Congress for approval.

Either way, by going with the "its about my election chances" route rather than nuanced arguments based on education policy, they've ruined any chance of actually delaying any funds.

This could have been solved by either competency (which both Trump and DeVos lack) or an understanding of education (which again both of them lack). Regardless, both went on to call for all schools to open in person or risk federal funding, despite them not being able to do that.

Someone decided that putting Betsy DeVos in front of TV cameras to defend this bad idea was a good idea. She went on CNN and, when asked why the Dept of Edu has not submitted guidelines, Devos said that this has to be done at the local level because the needs of districts vary. Dana Bash responded by pointing out that, while this is a fair point, DeVos is the one who is demanding that all schools in the nation open, despite the varying local needs, saying "you can't have it both ways".

She then made it over to Fox News where Chris Wallace pushed back on her attempt to use Germany and other countries who have reopened schools as a reason why the US should reopen. Wallace pointed out that those nations do not have anywhere near as many new cases as the US

"Is it really fair, is it reasonable to compare the situation in countries that have 20 new cases in a day with a country that has 68,000 new cases in a day?"

DeVos responded, "Well, we're talking about schools and other countries' experiences with reopening schools. And it has been shown to be very successful", possibly not realizing that she sounded like a complete idiot.

Wallace replied, "But schools happen in an environment. If there's 30 cases in a country, that's very different than a place where it's out of control and there are 70,000 new cases in a day."

He then pushed DeVos on why she is claiming that they would take away funding, explaining that they 1) can't and 2) that would just hurt the ability of schools to open up as soon as possible.

She repeated the threat to remove funding to which Wallace said, "Well, you can't do that".

The fact that Betsy DeVos is embarrassingly unqualified for her job, lacking any actual experience in education or student loans, will actually end up saving schools. If she had even a basic understand of special education law, she could have helped lead an argument against online education, suggesting that it violated the FAPE by not teaching students in the LRE (least restrictive environment). Fortunately, she did not make that argument.

Unfortunately, though, not every school system has competent people leading it. In Florida, the governor has made the claim that schools are safe to open because Home Depot is open. Of course, Home Depot doesn't usually have small spaces with 35 people closely together talking for an hour.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-13-2020, 04:12 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So schools have become a big topic recently as we're edging closer to August and September.

Trump and DeVos have made this an election issue by claiming that it is an election issue to keep them closed. This of course hurts their attempts to try to withhold funding. As anyone who actually paid attention to the Ukraine scandal knows, the executive cannot withhold (or impound) funds appropriated by Congress without their approval. Even delaying funds requires a reason related to the policy enacted by Congress to be submitted to Congress for approval.

Either way, by going with the "its about my election chances" route rather than nuanced arguments based on education policy, they've ruined any chance of actually delaying any funds.

This could have been solved by either competency (which both Trump and DeVos lack) or an understanding of education (which again both of them lack). Regardless, both went on to call for all schools to open in person or risk federal funding, despite them not being able to do that.

Someone decided that putting Betsy DeVos in front of TV cameras to defend this bad idea was a good idea. She went on CNN and, when asked why the Dept of Edu has not submitted guidelines, Devos said that this has to be done at the local level because the needs of districts vary. Dana Bash responded by pointing out that, while this is a fair point, DeVos is the one who is demanding that all schools in the nation open, despite the varying local needs, saying "you can't have it both ways".

She then made it over to Fox News where Chris Wallace pushed back on her attempt to use Germany and other countries who have reopened schools as a reason why the US should reopen. Wallace pointed out that those nations do not have anywhere near as many new cases as the US

"Is it really fair, is it reasonable to compare the situation in countries that have 20 new cases in a day with a country that has 68,000 new cases in a day?"

DeVos responded, "Well, we're talking about schools and other countries' experiences with reopening schools. And it has been shown to be very successful", possibly not realizing that she sounded like a complete idiot.

Wallace replied, "But schools happen in an environment. If there's 30 cases in a country, that's very different than a place where it's out of control and there are 70,000 new cases in a day."

He then pushed DeVos on why she is claiming that they would take away funding, explaining that they 1) can't and 2) that would just hurt the ability of schools to open up as soon as possible.

She repeated the threat to remove funding to which Wallace said, "Well, you can't do that".

The fact that Betsy DeVos is embarrassingly unqualified for her job, lacking any actual experience in education or student loans, will actually end up saving schools. If she had even a basic understand of special education law, she could have helped lead an argument against online education, suggesting that it violated the FAPE by not teaching students in the LRE (least restrictive environment). Fortunately, she did not make that argument.

Unfortunately, though, not every school system has competent people leading it. In Florida, the governor has made the claim that schools are safe to open because Home Depot is open. Of course, Home Depot doesn't usually have small spaces with 35 people closely together talking for an hour.

As usual, the federal government has abdicated a leadership role responding to Covid 19.

As pointed out, it’s completely illogical and hypocritical to claim the schools need to decide what to do locally, but then mandate they all open from a federal level. Stupid response from stupid people based purely upon the coming election.

[fredtoast]

Of all of Trump's sketchy appointments DeVos is the worst.

Every time I hear her talk I wonder how anyone can think she is in any way competent for that job.

[*Nately120*]

(07-13-2020, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Of all of Trump's sketchy appointments DeVos is the worst.

Every time I hear her talk I wonder how anyone can think she is in any way competent for that job.

Agreed.  Even with the amount of plutocracy we swallow as a populace, she's really pushing the envelope. 

[BmorePat87]

(07-13-2020, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Of all of Trump's sketchy appointments DeVos is the worst.

Every time I hear her talk I wonder how anyone can think she is in any way competent for that job.

-first cabinet appointment that ever needed the VP to break a tie

-she reportedly was angry that the administration didn't prep her enough for her confirmation hearings after she sat there unable to answer basic education questions 

But she also has never had any real responsibility in her life. She was born rich and married rich. Her career has been using other people's money to give to politicians who support her views on why an education system she never attended or was involved with is bad. Her incompetence and ignorance have never been an issue before, so she lacks the ability to see how woefully unfit she is for this job. 

Some people went to great lengths to defend her incompetence and complete lack of experience when she was confirmed. It involved a lot of ignorance of the education system and disingenuous deflection. I'm interested in knowing how they feel now.

[*michaelsean*]

I assume/hope she’ll be gone either way after November.

Pat, if you are doing video class, can you still wear a tie and jeans with a short sleeve shirt, sit on a chair backwards and say Mr Baltimore was my dad, call me Pat?

[BmorePat87]

(07-13-2020, 07:06 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I assume/hope she’ll be gone either way after November.

Pat, if you are doing video class, can you still wear a tie and jeans with a short sleeve shirt, sit on a chair backwards and say Mr Baltimore was my dad, call me Pat?

Long sleeves rolled up, but yea. 

[*bfine32*]

We have to develop a "new normal" and many children need in person education and/or parents cannot educate. What do those slamming the decision of leaving it up the the individual district to do?

Mandate "no in class"?

Mandate "all in class"?

Give everyone a diploma who feels he/she is educated enough?

Personally if I were a school shot caller I'd mandate half the kids report every other week for a 4 day week. The 5th day is online while cleaning crews do a deep sanitation.

I guess, in short, if I were a school official I;'d like to have some leeway with the Feds enforcing at least some of it has to be in classroom. Given, I'm no educator but I am responsible for implementing a "return to work plan" and it cannot be "everybody stay home"

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-13-2020, 07:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We have to develop a "new normal" and many children need in person education and/or parents cannot educate. What do those slamming the decision of leaving it up the the individual district to do?

Mandate "no in class"?

Mandate "all in class"?

Give everyone a diploma who feels he/she is educated enough?

Personally if I were a school shot caller I'd mandate half the kids report every other week for a 4 day week. The 5th day is online while cleaning crews do a deep sanitation.

I guess, in short, if I were a school official I;'d like to have some leeway with the Feds enforcing at least some of it has to be in classroom. Given, I'm no educator but I am responsible for implementing a "return to work plan" and it cannot be "everybody stay home"

No one here is slamming that.

The point is the federal govt/DOEd/Devos/WH/Trump can’t say all the schools should be open without completely ignoring their recommendation to let the individual districts make their own decision.

And they can’t recommend the districts make their own decision and threaten to withhold funds if the decide to close (make their own decision.)

[*bfine32*]

(07-13-2020, 07:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: No one here is slamming that.

The point is the federal govt/DOEd/Devos/WH/Trump can’t say all the schools should be open without completely ignoring their recommendation to let the individual districts make their own decision.

And they can’t recommend the districts make their own decision and threaten to withhold funds if the decide to close (make their own decision.)

There's no easy answer. Sort of like the NFL player. What do we do if there's a season but some refuse to play due to health concerns? 

As I said. My personal opinion is they should provide incentive to schools that have some form on brick and mortar presence. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-13-2020, 07:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There's no easy answer. Sort of like the NFL player. What do we do if there's a season but some refuse to play due to health concerns? 

As I said. My personal opinion is they should provide incentive to schools that have some form on brick and mortar presence. 

Our school district is offering both options: traditional classes in the classroom or distance learner. The parents and student decide which option. The student is locked into their choice for the 9 week quarter. They have the same option at the start of every quarter as it stands now, but subject to change (METT-T).

[BmorePat87]

(07-13-2020, 07:53 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Our school district is offering both options: traditional classes in the classroom or distance learner. The parents and student decide which option. The student is locked into their choice for the 9 week quarter. They have the same option at the start of every quarter as it stands now, but subject to change (METT-T).

Our superintendent proposed some ideas to the BOE for them to give feedback on last week.

The first option was to let parents pick between whatever the county does or locking into a 100% digital academy for the 2020-2021 school year.

By the end of the meeting, he had withdrawn the online academy option.

So the next debate was between phasing in or starting in person now with students being split into A group and B group. A group goes in person M and W and does assignments online T and Th. B group does the opposite. All groups do online work Friday. The problem is they had no plan for how to make it safe for students and safe. 

Ultimately they decided to implement a semester based schedule for phasing in. Instead of taking 7 classes for a full year, they will take 4 classes for the first semester and 4 for the second semester. We are going to start online with students getting an hour of each class a day. There will also be work for them to complete independently during the other 3 hours a day.  

We will keep reassessing the situation so that we can eventually begin transitioning back to the building. 

The federal government, many state governments, and many individuals have done a poor job responding, so we are just not in a place where we can safely go back. If Trump wanted this, he should have lead the country when we needed it. 

[Millhouse]

Devos also said in that interview that “There’s nothing in the data that suggests that kids being in school is in any way dangerous."

She is the absolute worst. She is a billionaire elitist that greatly favors private schools over public schools. If someone is a Trump supporter, chances are your kid goes to a public school, and he hired her of all people.

But back to that quote she gave above. Does simple minded common sense not register with her? A school has the most gatherings of people anywhere 5 days a week. Class rooms packed with kids, hallways jammed pack few times a day, lunch rooms packed, buses with kids. Businesses, restaurants, theaters, parks, etc. aren't even close to schools in terms of the amount of people closely gathered for that many hours a week.

No one out there is arguing that kids need to be in school, that is a no brainer. But at what risk to them and to teachers?

[Belsnickel]

I've been looking more at the higher ed side since that is where I work. It's a cluster ****. No other way to put it. Any college or university trying to hold the fall semester in person is putting their community at risk.

[*bfine32*]

(07-13-2020, 07:53 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Our school district is offering both options: traditional classes in the classroom or distance learner. The parents and student decide which option. The student is locked into their choice for the 9 week quarter. They have the same option at the start of every quarter as it stands now, but subject to change (METT-T).

That seems like a smart move. I'd be curious to know the percentage of folks who pick online versus in person

[*bfine32*]

(07-13-2020, 08:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I've been looking more at the higher ed side since that is where I work. It's a cluster ****. No other way to put it. Any college or university trying to hold the fall semester in person is putting their community at risk.

Many are starting earlier and trying to finish earlier in a measure to avoid COViD 20. There's also quarantine measures in place.  While I understand your last statement; there's no easy answer. 

[*michaelsean*]

The

(07-13-2020, 08:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I've been looking more at the higher ed side since that is where I work. It's a cluster ****. No other way to put it. Any college or university trying to hold the fall semester in person is putting their community at risk.

My son will be a freshman. They will do in person until Thanksgiving and resume again in January. He certainly wants to go because he wants to play fall ball and see if he liked such a small school. He’s always wanted to go to OSU but his only options for baseball were small D3 schools. Find out if he lives it, and if he doesn’t he can transfer to OSU and play club ball. Ok but COVID, but COVID already robbed him of his senior year in high school. Kids his age are extremely low risk to almost statistically none so I’m fine with it.

[fredtoast]

(07-13-2020, 07:53 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Our school district is offering both options: traditional classes in the classroom or distance learner. The parents and student decide which option. 

This is what they are doing at my kids school.  

Teachers are required to wear masks when in "close proximity" to the students.  Students are encouraged to wear masks but not required. (derp)

Bussing is a big issue because they really pack a lot of kids in those buses.  They will take every childs temperature before they are allowed to get on the bus, so a parent is required to be at the bus stop in case the child is not allowed on.  Luckily my oldest is a senior and will be driving herself.  My son will be a freshman so he can ride with her.

[GMDino]

(07-13-2020, 09:31 PM)michaelsean Wrote: The
My son will be a freshman. They will do in person until Thanksgiving and resume again in January. He certainly wants to go because he wants to play fall ball and see if he liked such a small school. He’s always wanted to go to OSU but his only options for baseball were small D3 schools. Find out if he lives it, and if he doesn’t he can transfer to OSU and play club ball.  Ok is but COVID, but COVID already robbed him of his senior year in high school. Kids his age are extremely low risk to almost  statistically none so I’m fine with it.

Our son's college will be doing the same.  He wasn't living on campus anyway so it won't be as difficult a transition.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-13-2020, 09:31 PM)michaelsean Wrote: The
My son will be a freshman. They will do in person until Thanksgiving and resume again in January. He certainly wants to go because he wants to play fall ball and see if he liked such a small school. He’s always wanted to go to OSU but his only options for baseball were small D3 schools. Find out if he lives it, and if he doesn’t he can transfer to OSU and play club ball. Ok is but COVID, but COVID already robbed him of his senior year in high school. Kids his age are extremely low risk to almost statistically none so I’m fine with it.

Most people with Covid 19 will experience cold to flu symptoms. My daughter will be 15 when school starts August 10th. We have until this Friday to decide if she will enroll in distance learning or traditional classes. I’m comfortable with her choosing which option she thinks is best for her.

But, Georgia’s rate of infection is up to record levels and seems to be getting worse by the week. I don’t see it getting better before school starts. I wonder what the plan is if there is an outbreak in the school for the kids taking traditional classes.