Reopening Schools

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-slams-los-angeles-terrible-222711865.html

Los Angeles decided schools will opt for distance learning rather than traditional classes in the fall.

Donald “Schools Should Decide For Themselves” Trump pouted like a child . . .

Quote:“I would tell parents and teachers that you should find yourself a new person – whoever’s in charge of that decision because it’s a terrible decision,” he said. “Because children and parents are dying from that trauma, too. They're dying because they can't do what they're doing. Mothers can’t go to work because all of a sudden they have to stay home and watch their child — and fathers.”

If local leaders are in the best position to decide what is best for their schools, who is Trump to tell them otherwise? Especially since it’s his idea they know better than he does.

Just like he did with the governors, he abdicated a leadership role. And just as he blamed the governors, he is now blaming school boards. Because as Trump said himself, “I don’t take responsibility at all.”

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(07-15-2020, 01:30 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-slams-los-angeles-terrible-222711865.html

Los Angeles decided schools will opt for distance learning rather than traditional classes in the fall.

Donald “Schools Should Decide For Themselves” Trump pouted like a child . . .


If local leaders are in the best position to decide what is best for their schools, who is Trump to tell them otherwise?  Especially since it’s his idea they know better than he does.

Just like he did with the governors, he abdicated a leadership role. And just as he blamed the governors, he is now blaming school boards. Because as Trump said himself, “I don’t take responsibility at all.”

In my experience in college, I didn't learn half as much from an online course as I did an in person class. Though from experiences with my brothers children it's a bit different. There's actual interaction between the students and teachers.

Question though do the poorer schools have access to the technology so that teachers and students can actually interact with each other in some meaningful way? Because if they are just getting on a computer and doing assignments that anyone could do for them I don't think this is going to help anyone and only hurt these kids education further.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-15-2020, 01:40 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: In my experience in college, I didn't learn half as much from an online course as I did an in person class. Though from experiences with my brothers children it's a bit different. There's actual interaction between the students and teachers.

Question though do the poorer schools have access to the technology so that teachers and students can actually interact with each other in some meaningful way? Because if they are just getting on a computer and doing assignments that anyone could do for them I don't think this is going to help anyone and only hurt these kids education further.

I’m sure there are poor schools that aren’t equipped for distance learning. So I doubt they will opt for distance learning.

The issue here is the Trump administration told schools to decide what to do for themselves and then Trump criticized and threatened the schools for deciding what to do for themselves.

Tonight my daughter opted for the traditional classes option for her school. I don’t have a problem with her or the school’s decision. I do have a problem with telling the schools to decide for themselves then criticizing and threatening them for deciding for themselves.

If the Trump administration truly believes schools should decide what is best locally then let them do so without criticism and threats. If the Trump administration believes the kids should be in school, then f’n lead!

[BmorePat87]

(07-15-2020, 01:40 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: In my experience in college, I didn't learn half as much from an online course as I did an in person class. Though from experiences with my brothers children it's a bit different. There's actual interaction between the students and teachers.

My experiences in more recent years are definitely better than my online classes years before. Colleges are investing heavy in online education.

Quote:Question though do the poorer schools have access to the technology so that teachers and students can actually interact with each other in some meaningful way? Because if they are just getting on a computer and doing assignments that anyone could do for them I don't think this is going to help anyone and only hurt these kids education further.

Definitely an issue. The pandemic has exposed how underfunded so many crucial institutions are. Education and healthcare. This is why it's counterproductive to threaten to withhold funding. Schools were hurting before, and they're hurting even more now. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-15-2020, 02:05 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: My experiences in more recent years are definitely better than my online classes years before. Colleges are investing heavy in online education.




Definitely an issue. The pandemic has exposed how underfunded so many crucial institutions are. Education and healthcare. This is why it's counterproductive to threaten to withhold funding. Schools were hurting before, and they're hurting even more now. 

If the Trump administration can give millions to Kanye West’s and Tom Brady’s businesses and Devin Nunes’ vineyard via the PPP, then maybe they can give schools funds to try to reopen safely since Trump obviously wants them open.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(07-15-2020, 02:15 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If the Trump administration can give millions to Kanye West’s and Tom Brady’s businesses and Devin Nunes’ vineyard via the PPP, then maybe they can give schools funds to try to reopen safely since Trump obviously wants them open.

Isn't the American education system one of the worlds worst? At least amongst countries with similar structures. We've long been needing to invest in education.

[Vas Deferens]

(07-15-2020, 03:05 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Isn't the American education system one of the worlds worst? At least amongst countries with similar structures. We've long been needing to invest in education.

Have you seen the quality of the product the system has produced the past couple decades?

Pretty sure uncle ronnie’s hack job of the public education system was intentional.

[Belsnickel]

(07-15-2020, 03:05 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Isn't the American education system one of the worlds worst? At least amongst countries with similar structures. We've long been needing to invest in education.

Yes and no. That sort of determination is predicated on standardized testing, which on its own isn't a stellar evaluative tool. In addition, the tests typically used for global rankings aren't ones our education system focuses on while some other countries actually teach to that test. That being said, our education system leaves a lot to be desired and we still fall well below our OECD fellows.

[BmorePat87]

(07-15-2020, 03:05 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Isn't the American education system one of the worlds worst? At least amongst countries with similar structures. We've long been needing to invest in education.

We're not one of the worst, but we have been passed by many nations in testing scores. The US education system has been improving decade after decade, just not as much as other nations when it comes to some metrics. There's also some metrics where we excel compared to systems seen as some of the best.

One of the issues is that we have one of the highest childhood poverty rates of any developed nations. Our local model of education combined with our size also makes it harder to implement rigorous and necessary standards and reforms as well as fund them. 

Education is one piece of the puzzle of things that are underfunded in the US, but it's often used as a means of addressing those things: hunger, health, mental wellness. 

One good reform would be promoting the community model for schools. This would require a significant investment from the government. We also need to overhaul teacher education programs, teacher compensation, and the role of assessments in education. The last one in particular is why actual education experts are necessary voices in any education policy discussion. Standardize tests are ineffective and nearly useless tools the way they're utilized and valued in our nation. 

[BmorePat87]

My sister is the yearbook teacher in the same system as me and posted this.

[fredtoast]

The single biggest reform that could help alleviate poverty would be to have all public schools equally funded by the state instead of having the richest kids have superior schools. This would actually require amending some state constitutions but it would be worth it.  And I don't know how wealthy people could object to equal opportunity for all.

This might be worth its own thread.

[Belsnickel]

(07-15-2020, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The single biggest reform that could help alleviate poverty would be to have all public schools equally funded by the state instead of having the richest kids have superior schools. This would actually require amending some state constitutions but it would be worth it.  And I don't know how wealthy people could object to equal opportunity for all.

This might be worth its own thread.

It might be, because I can tell you how they can object to that. Capitalism requires winners and losers, and those already winning don't want losers to start winning, because then they win less. So equal opportunity is not something they support.

[masterpanthera_t]

(07-14-2020, 09:46 PM)Benton Wrote: A lot of employers are offering partial pay for workers who don't have childcare because daycraes were closed and schools weren't open. 

From talking to folks, now would be a good time to open a daycare. It seems lots shut down during the pandemic and more are opening but not accepting new clients/reducing the numbers of kids they accept.

Partial pay while not working or simply childcare costs while working from home? I'm not clear what you mean. This might work for parents with very young children, but for those parents with kids between 8 and 14 or 15 (16, I assume legally requires no supervision at home), it still puts them in a bind to go to work, in cases where work from home is not an option. Pretty much dual income families of blue collar workers. Due to their impact on the economy, it warrants further consideration to open schools. But maybe creative solutions can he worked out without needing to open schools? 

[masterpanthera_t]

(07-15-2020, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The single biggest reform that could help alleviate poverty would be to have all public schools equally funded by the state instead of having the richest kids have superior schools. This would actually require amending some state constitutions but it would be worth it.  And I don't know how wealthy people could object to equal opportunity for all.

This might be worth its own thread.

(07-15-2020, 12:21 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It might be, because I can tell you how they can object to that. Capitalism requires winners and losers, and those already winning don't want losers to start winning, because then they win less. So equal opportunity is not something they support.

Yes. If we truly viewed all of our citizens as deserving of equal opportunity, this could happen. But alas, I just don't find that spirit. No matter what other gripes we may have with folks of differing views, I view this as a travesty that can only be overcome with a change in perspective. Unless the whole nation sees it as a national stain that children growing up in impoverished communities are mostly consigned to that same existence because of a lack of quality education, this problem cannot be solved. Not talking about subsidizing adults here, but simply providing poor kids the same quality of education as wealthy ones can easily eradicate a lot of poverty in a generation or two. And in the long run strengthen the country as a whole.

[GMDino]

(07-15-2020, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The single biggest reform that could help alleviate poverty would be to have all public schools equally funded by the state instead of having the richest kids have superior skills. This would actually require amending some state constitutions but it would be worth it.  And I don't know how wealthy people could object to equal opportunity for all.

I attended Catholic school growing up.  Each parish maintained its own grade school (or closed it) with assistance from the diocese. The way the tuition was handled on the high school level was the parents paid part and the parish you belonged to paid part of it.  If your parish snet ten students to the high school they paid more than a parish that sent one...but all the parents paid the same.  If tuition was $200 and the parish picked up $100 one is paying $1000 the other $100 but the parents pay $100 each.  

That has all changed.

Now all the parishes send X amount to the diocese and it gets split up by schools.  The grade schools get a bit, the high schools get a bit.  Then it is given to students based on need and enrollment.  That has resulted in wildly differing payments for the parents and has forced many to drop out of the system which further skewed the help from the diocese. So while one school thrived the other died on the vine.

The same is happening with the public schools.  They are cutting and carving up every program and position they can and are afraid to even suggest raising taxes on the district level.  On the state level there is never talk of helping the poorer districts.  The closest we came was when one local rep suggested merging a bunch of the districts into one mega district.  There were two problems with that:  1) He was trying to force it on the ballot and even if he made it it required all the individual school boards to vote in favor also.  And 2) He was a crook of the highest degree.  If he was for it that meant he found a way to make money for himself on it.  The idea was rejected from the students up and even a study he used tax money to fund showed it was a bad idea they way he proposed it and wasn't legal the way he wanted to do it.

My point is that change needs to happen to equalize things for our students.  From the state to the local school boards.  Spreading the wealth equally, so to speak, would be a good first step.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-15-2020, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The single biggest reform that could help alleviate poverty would be to have all public schools equally funded by the state instead of having the richest kids have superior schools. This would actually require amending some state constitutions but it would be worth it.  And I don't know how wealthy people could object to equal opportunity for all.

This might be worth its own thread.

Let me ask this.  Would you allow  communities to vote on a levy that increases funding for their school?  What i mean is, say the state takes over funding of schools and allocates money per student equally across the state.  Could people vote themselves higher taxes to pay teachers more or what have you?

[*michaelsean*]

(07-15-2020, 01:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: I attended Catholic school growing up.  Each parish maintained its own grade school (or closed it) with assistance from the diocese. The way the tuition was handled on the high school level was the parents paid part and the parish you belonged to paid part of it.  If your parish snet ten students to the high school they paid more than a parish that sent one...but all the parents paid the same.  If tuition was $200 and the parish picked up $100 one is paying $1000 the other $100 but the parents pay $100 each.  

That has all changed.

Now all the parishes send X amount to the diocese and it gets split up by schools.  The grade schools get a bit, the high schools get a bit.  Then it is given to students based on need and enrollment.  That has resulted in wildly differing payments for the parents and has forced many to drop out of the system which further skewed the help from the diocese. So while one school thrived the other died on the vine.

The same is happening with the public schools.  They are cutting and carving up every program and position they can and are afraid to even suggest raising taxes on the district level.  On the state level there is never talk of helping the poorer districts.  The closest we came was when one local rep suggested merging a bunch of the districts into one mega district.  There were two problems with that:  1) He was trying to force it on the ballot and even if he made it it required all the individual school boards to vote in favor also.  And 2) He was a crook of the highest degree.  If he was for it that meant he found a way to make money for himself on it.  The idea was rejected from the students up and even a study he used tax money to fund showed it was a bad idea they way he proposed it and wasn't legal the way he wanted to do it.

My point is that change needs to happen to equalize things for our students.  From the state to the local school boards.  Spreading the wealth equally, so to speak, would be a good first step.

I'm not sure if this pertains to what you are saying, but the cost of Catholic High School has become insane.  I think half of the kids at my son's school  receive some sort of assistance from the school which is covered by big gala nights etc.  

[fredtoast]

(07-16-2020, 10:23 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Let me ask this.  Would you allow  communities to vote on a levy that increases funding for their school?  What i mean is, say the state takes over funding of schools and allocates money per student equally across the state.  Could people vote themselves higher taxes to pay teachers more or what have you?

They could vote to pay higher taxes but it would go to the entire state instead of just their district.

The entire concept of taxes used for school funding would have to be re-worked for the State to take over full control.

Currently on average staes pay about 40%, local property taxes pay about 40% and the Federal government pays 10%.  But the numbers vary greatly from state to state.  For example in Hawaii the state pays over 80%, but in some states the state pays less than 20%.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-16-2020, 11:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: They could vote to pay higher taxes but it would go to the entire state instead of just their district.

The entire concept of taxes used for school funding would have to be re-worked for the State to take over full control.

Currently on average staes pay about 40%, local property taxes pay about 40% and the Federal government pays 10%.  But the numbers vary greatly from state to state.  For example in Hawaii the state pays over 80%, but in some states the state pays less than 20%.

OK so what I'm saying is then they won't vote for it which would still do nothing to help or change other districts.  I think the state should adequately fund the schools, but if local districts want to add on, they can. A single school district voting on a tax that will be distributed among the whole state wouldn't do much so then they don't vote for it, and still nobody is better off. I guess they could just donate money to the district.

[GMDino]

(07-16-2020, 10:26 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm not sure if this pertains to what you are saying, but the cost of Catholic High School has become insane.  I think half of the kids at my son's school  receive some sort of assistance from the school which is covered by big gala nights etc.  

Absolutely.  Our have fundraisers but very few are for tuition assistance directly for the students.  More for just keeping the schools running so they don't have to raise tuition to do it.  Ends up being the same concept.