Republicans do not want the country to know what is in their health care bill.

[GMDino]

(06-20-2017, 09:54 AM)michaelsean Wrote: No it doesn't.  I FIGURED OUT THE CODE!

Sorry but there can not be multiple people on this board with super powers.  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I don't want Single Payer or anything near it since I see government run healthcare only as a means of absolute control over the populace...eventually. 

Healthcare can be tied to everything from how you live, what you eat and if you exercise to what job you have, how much electricity you use and the type of car you drive. Since the government controls your healthcare, they can tell you what to do all in the name of the greater good and to save money which lowers your cost and those around you.

Of course, those with a lot of money can tell the government to shove it and those who make the laws can opt out for the rest of their lives. Seriously, what do the "Regular" people really know? The Catholic Church did it for centuries, Communist countries did it for decades and are still doing it...telling people how to live and think. Hell, this is a made up percentage but at least 95% of the American public are already told how to think and act. The other 4.75% are demonized as whack jobs and that .25% are actual whack jobs.

Don't believe me about being told how to think and act? Just read this board.

Do you have Medicare?

[Dill]

(06-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I don't want Single Payer or anything near it since I see government run healthcare only as a means of absolute control over the populace...eventually. 

Healthcare can be tied to everything from how you live, what you eat and if you exercise to what job you have, how much electricity you use and the type of car you drive. Since the government controls your healthcare, they can tell you what to do all in the name of the greater good and to save money which lowers your cost and those around you.

Of course, those with a lot of money can tell the government to shove it and those who make the laws can opt out for the rest of their lives. Seriously, what do the "Regular" people really know? The Catholic Church did it for centuries, Communist countries did it for decades and are still doing it...telling people how to live and think. Hell, this is a made up percentage but at least 95% of the American public are already told how to think and act. The other 4.75% are demonized as whack jobs and that .25% are actual whack jobs.

Don't believe me about being told how to think and act? Just read this board[url=https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100011731790470&fref=ufi][/url]

After reading this board, I also question what the "regular" people really know.  Large numbers do appear to be "told what to do."

However, I don't see "government" doing this. Unlike your examples, Communist countries and the Catholic Church, the US is a liberal democracy. We elect leaders and can recall them. "They" are us.

In a country in which elections change governments, it is hardly possible to control media and carry out propaganda campaigns as governments in totalitarian regimes can.

Other public organizations are happy to fill in the vacuum, however--churches, corporations, parties, and partisan media.

Since WWII especially, some of these organizations have worked together to convince large numbers of "regular" people that the interests of Big Business (and those who own them) are their interests. People who would challenge this identity of interests are "sheeple," brainwashed by socialism, people who want the government to take care of them. The regular folks who think for themselves are encouraged to hate the transparent "dictator" Obama and embrace the secretive Trump as a non-politician who thinks like they do. They believe tax cuts for the rich will help them, along with deregulation of business.

When it comes to healthcare, paying double what other advanced industrial countries pay for health care is acceptable so long it prevents a government "takeover" of healthcare. It would be terrible if the government we control could also control our health care costs--e.g. by regulating a free market of insurance companies who profit by refusing coverage to people with pre-existing conditions..  Insurance companies are very happy that so many Americans resist Communism and think for themselves. 

[BoomerFan]

John McCain throwing some shade

McCain: No American has seen healthcare bill, but I'm sure Russia has

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said he hasn't met an American who has seen the Senate Republicans' healthcare bill yet, though he's "sure the Russians have" gotten their hands on it, Bloomberg reported.

Asked Tuesday whether he has seen a copy of the legislation, McCain said he has not.

"Nor have I met any American that has," he added, according to Bloomberg. "I’m sure the Russians have been able to hack in and gotten most of it."​

This guy.

[GMDino]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-21/senate-republicans-brace-for-release-of-health-bill-thursday

Quote:McConnell defended the secretive process of drafting the bill, in which few people besides him and some top-level Republican aides are aware of the proposal’s contents.

“I do find it particularly laughable the complaints about process,” he said Tuesday. McConnell said final details of Obamacare were worked out in then-Majority Leader Harry Reid’s office as he struggled to get enough Democrats to back it. Still, the Obamacare proposal had undergone multiple committee hearings before that final stage, unlike the Senate Republicans’ emerging plan.


....


McConnell’s closed-door approach and his call Tuesday for rapid action drew fire from members of his own party, including Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Mike Lee of Utah and Rob Portman of Ohio.

Much more at the link about some the proposals from the bill getting out and how very some on both sides are unhappy with it.

[Belsnickel]

Anyone seen the images of wheelchair bound protestors being physically removed from outside McConnell's office? I'd like to know more about this, but haven't found an unbiased source for the story. I've just seen the images posted online and some left-wing reporting.

[GMDino]

http://www.11alive.com/news/nation-world/protesters-gather-in-front-of-mitch-mcconnells-office-for-die-in/451283006

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2017/live-updates/trump-white-house/gop-health-care-bill-the-latest-news-and-reactions/protesters-physically-removed-from-hallway-outside-mcconnells-office/?utm_term=.0878298741bf

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/06/22/capitol-police-forcibly-remove-health-care-protesters-outside-mitch-mcconnell-office/22582991/

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2017-06-22/obamacare-replacement-bill-to-take-center-stage-in-senate

I don't know the rules/laws for protesting outside of an elected official's office...but very bad optics.

[Belsnickel]

(06-22-2017, 04:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.11alive.com/news/nation-world/protesters-gather-in-front-of-mitch-mcconnells-office-for-die-in/451283006

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2017/live-updates/trump-white-house/gop-health-care-bill-the-latest-news-and-reactions/protesters-physically-removed-from-hallway-outside-mcconnells-office/?utm_term=.0878298741bf

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/06/22/capitol-police-forcibly-remove-health-care-protesters-outside-mitch-mcconnell-office/22582991/

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2017-06-22/obamacare-replacement-bill-to-take-center-stage-in-senate

I don't know the rules/laws for protesting outside of an elected official's office...but very bad optics.

Yeah, they can remove you legally for a number of reasons. Just not sure what prompted it, here.

[GMDino]

(06-22-2017, 04:24 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, they can remove you legally for a number of reasons. Just not sure what prompted it, here.

Sen Turtle needed to leave his office?

Seriously though these guys do NOT want citizens talking to them.

[GMDino]

Wouldn't it be nice to have a POTUS that writes in complete, coherent sentences?

You don't have to agree with what he wrote...but at least it's thoughtful.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

I've completed my annual compliance training which noted the ACA is responsible for recovering over $1 billion in healthcare fraud.

I also had to review applicable laws and regulations regarding healthcare fraud. We had a prior discussion here in which someone claimed self pay patients are only charged 10% of what insured patients pay. Like I said before, that's illegal. That doesn't even pass the common sense test. Why even have insurance if you will only be charged 10% if you didn't have insurance? Some people.

[Benton]

(06-22-2017, 03:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Anyone seen the images of wheelchair bound protestors being physically removed from outside McConnell's office? I'd like to know more about this, but haven't found an unbiased source for the story. I've just seen the images posted online and some left-wing reporting.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4829103/mitch-mcconnell-protest-senate-health-care-bill/%3Fsource%3Ddam

My question that I can't find a nonpartisan answer for: are the $600 billion in tax cuts just undoing the Obamacare increases, or are these new cuts?


Either way it's dumb as we can't keep increasing spending and decreasing taxes.

[Belsnickel]

(06-23-2017, 12:04 PM)Benton Wrote: https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4829103/mitch-mcconnell-protest-senate-health-care-bill/%3Fsource%3Ddam

My question that I can't find a nonpartisan answer for: are the $600 billion in tax cuts just undoing the Obamacare increases, or are these new cuts?


Either way it's dumb as we can't keep increasing spending and decreasing taxes.

But our politicians can justify it because they keep telling the public we are in an economic downturn. If they keep pretending that is the case then it makes sense economically as far as Keynesian economics are concerned.

I think I may be giving them too much credit to think they are attempting to justify it, but hey, I'm feeling generous because my vacation starts in 45 minutes.

[GMDino]

(06-23-2017, 12:04 PM)Benton Wrote: https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4829103/mitch-mcconnell-protest-senate-health-care-bill/%3Fsource%3Ddam

My question that I can't find a nonpartisan answer for: are the $600 billion in tax cuts just undoing the Obamacare increases, or are these new cuts?


Either way it's dumb as we can't keep increasing spending and decreasing taxes.

I read that it was the elimination of the 3.8% ACA tax.  

I thought I also read that there were other cuts in there too...but I can't remember where I saw it.  I know for sure about the ACA tax rollback.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-23-2017, 12:04 PM)Benton Wrote: https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4829103/mitch-mcconnell-protest-senate-health-care-bill/%3Fsource%3Ddam

My question that I can't find a nonpartisan answer for: are the $600 billion in tax cuts just undoing the Obamacare increases, or are these new cuts?


Either way it's dumb as we can't keep increasing spending and decreasing taxes.

How the F are we going to afford overpriced uniforms for Afghani soldiers if we cut taxes?

[GMDino]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/mitch-mcconnell-talks-outrageous-trump-comments-and-overcoming-polio/

[*michaelsean*]

(06-23-2017, 12:56 PM)GMDino Wrote:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/mitch-mcconnell-talks-outrageous-trump-comments-and-overcoming-polio/

I haven't seen where they are taking away healthcare from tens of millions.  

[GMDino]

(06-23-2017, 01:33 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I haven't seen where they are taking away healthcare from tens of millions.  

You've' seen it...you just ignore it.


Oh right.  I forgot how to say that in GOP=speak:

You will still be able to get healthcare it will just be unaffordable and you will get no help in obtaining it.  And the most affordable will provide almost no real coverage that would actually help you.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-23-2017, 01:58 PM)GMDino Wrote: You've' seen it...you just ignore it.


Oh right.  I forgot how to say that in GOP=speak:

You will still be able to get healthcare it will just be unaffordable and you will get no help in obtaining it.  And the most affordable will provide almost no real coverage that would actually help you.

Touchy.  I see a lot of headlines, but when you read them, it seems most of that number are people who voluntarily drop their coverage since there is no longer a mandate.

[GMDino]

(06-23-2017, 02:21 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Touchy.  I see a lot of headlines, but when you read them, it seems most of that number are people who voluntarily drop their coverage since there is no longer a mandate.

Not "most".

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/many-of-the-people-who-will-lose-coverage-under-obamacare-repeal-will-choose-to-do-so/article/2624121

Quote:The CBO predicts 14 million fewer insured through Medicaid, 6 million fewer insured in individually-purchased plans, and 3 million fewer insured through employer-based plans.

Like all budget projections, the CBO isn't just considering changes from today, but changes from what they believe will happen in the future. Therefore, the projected decrease in Medicaid coverage includes not only people who are currently in the program, but is based on the assumption that, if Obamacare remained law, more states would expand the program. Today, 31 states have expanded Medicaid; 19 states have not.

However the GOp has spun the "access to healthcare" phrase.  I have access to any car I see...but can only get the one I can afford.  And healthcare is more important than a car.