Restaurant owner blames liberal, LGBTQ critics for losing investors

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2019, 04:44 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: That story saw several iterative updates as evidence was revealed.

There was the initial iteration which was "boy confronts peaceful Native American"

The second iteration, which is the one the above description recounts, was "Native American walks into group of Trump hat wearers and plays a song in boy's face."

The third iteration was after the black Hebrews video was uncovered and that one was essentially "Black Hebrews were antagonizing children (most likely) for wearing MAGA gear. Children began responding with school chants and other pep rally style call and responses. Native American walks between the two groups to try and break up the verbal fighting."

All three iterations were reported by the MSM as they were uncovered.

Thank you. Why are things like pulling teeth around here? 

[CJD]

(07-09-2019, 04:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Thank you. Why are things like pulling teeth around here? 

I don't know what teeth you think you're pulling. I can't speak for what the Black Hebrew Israelites were thinking when they decided to antagonize the children. I'm just making an educated guess based on the evidence presented to me.

[CJD]

(07-09-2019, 04:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And surprisingly I saying I disagree. Many painted the Covington Kid as racist simply because of the hat; it's why the image of him smiling at the NA was such "news". It was a perfect example of narrow-minded folks doing so simply without evidence. 

I can proudly say I didn't jump to conclusions; can everyone else reading these words do the same?

This post makes me suspect you don't know what evidence is.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2019, 04:58 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't know what teeth you think you're pulling. I can't speak for what the Black Hebrew Israelites were thinking when they decided to antagonize the children. I'm just making an educated guess based on the evidence presented to me.

And I'm saying your educated guess is spot on IMO. These kids were classified as racist by folks simply for what they had on their head. It's what the last couple pages of back and forth have been about. Hence the "pulling teeth" reference. Can't we all just agree that folks are often painted as racists with 0 supporting evidence or are we going back to the dentist? 

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2019, 05:00 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This post makes me suspect you don't know what evidence is.

Something that furnishes truth. 

[CJD]

(07-09-2019, 05:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Something that furnishes truth. 

You're close.  The definition of evidence is "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."

Having evidence of something does not mean that that something is true. It is an indication that a belief is valid.

I can have some evidence that you were at someone's house the night they were murdered. Whether that be witness accounts, victim accounts (not in the case of murder, of course, but of some other crime), fingerprints or something of the sort. This can be used as evidence for trying you for murder. But it doesn't, in and of itself, mean that you murdered that person. 

Just like with the MAGA hat. Wearing it is not empirical proof that someone is a racist. But it is evidence that they may be. Supporting someone who is suspected of (putting it lightly here, for the benefit of the doubt) racism and sexism often leads people to believe you may be racist or sexist. It is evidence. You can make an argument about whether or not that hat should be considered evidence, I suppose (though it'd be a relatively difficult argument to make). But you can't claim that there is 0 supporting evidence in these cases.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2019, 05:14 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: You're close.  The definition of evidence is "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."

Having evidence of something does not mean that that something is true. It is an indication that a belief is valid.

I can have some evidence that you were at someone's house the night they were murdered. Whether that be witness accounts, victim accounts (not in the case of murder, of course, but of some other crime), fingerprints or something of the sort. This can be used as evidence for trying you for murder. But it doesn't, in and of itself, mean that you murdered that person. 

Just like with the MAGA hat. Wearing it is not empirical proof that someone is a racist. But it is evidence that they may be. Supporting someone who is suspected of (putting it lightly here, for the benefit of the doubt) racism and sexism often leads people to believe you may be racist or sexist. It is evidence. You can make an argument about whether or not that hat should be considered evidence, I suppose (though it'd be a relatively difficult argument to make). But you can't claim that there is 0 supporting evidence in these cases.

I wasn't "close" I said exactly what you said in fewer words.


But I have learned a lot that you and others consider that simply wearing a hat evidence of being a racist. 

I can easily claim that using the reasonable person standard that simply wearing a hat is not evidence of a racist, just as I believe wearing a hoody is not evidence of being a thug. 

I get you made a statement "Show me examples of someone considered a racist without evidence" and then when examples were provided to you (The Covington Kids and my being considered a racist because I asserted Justice Thomas may have a different perspective because of experiences) you want to dispute them. It's human nature and understandable. But none of that changes the fact than many (regardless of skin color) are considered racists on a daily basis with nothing furnishing the truth of this

Person A: He's a racist!!

Person B: What's your evidence

Person A: He has on a MAGA hat

Person B:.........uuuuuhhhmmm...

Guess who's person A and person B

[GMDino]

Most reports said the boys looked like they were doing racist things...and wearing MAGA hats.  They didn't say the boys were racist because they had MAGA hats on.

But that's not the kind of argument one wants to make when there is a victim card to be played.

In the initial stories they were also attacked for private/religious school kids...because of their alleged actions.

But, again, when one is trying to desperately project that all MAGA hat wearers are wrongly attacked that's something that can be ignored.  

Not everyone wearing khakis is a racist but if they are wearing khakis (and MAGA hats, btw) while carrying torches and chanting racist things well....

[CJD]

(07-09-2019, 05:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I wasn't "close" I said exactly what you said in fewer words.


But I have learned a lot that you and others consider that simply wearing a hat evidence of being a racist. 

I can easily claim that using the reasonable person standard that simply wearing a hat is not evidence of a racist, just as I believe wearing a hoody is not evidence of being a thug. 

I get you made a statement "Show me examples of someone considered a racist without evidence" and then when examples were provided to you (The Covington Kids and my being considered a racist because I asserted Justice Thomas may have a different perspective because of experiences) you want to dispute them. It's human nature and understandable. But none of that changes the fact than many (regardless of skin color) are considered racists on a daily basis with nothing furnishing the truth of this

Person A: He's a racist!!

Person B: What's your evidence

Person A: He has on a MAGA hat

Person B:.........uuuuuhhhmmm...

Guess who's person A and person B

I can tell you are bothered by the revelation that Trump is a suspected racist. 

That's good. It's the little steps that are important. We can't all get to the same place at the same pace.

As for persons A and B, I can't say who is who. What are my pool of people I can choose from?

[*bfine32*]

I totally love that the 2 main folks that I am having this discussion with and the 3rd that just showed up are actually disagreeing with each other. I wonder if they realize it and ignoring it or don't realize it. Either way: I love it.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2019, 05:56 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I can tell you are bothered by the revelation that Trump is a suspected racist. 

That's good. It's the little steps that are important. We can't all get to the same place at the same pace.

As for persons A and B, I can't say who is who. What are my pool of people I can choose from

Your pool is one that considers solely wearing a MAGA hat as evidence of being a racist and one who does not. 

[CJD]

(07-09-2019, 06:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Your pool is one that considers solely wearing a MAGA hat as evidence of being a racist and one who does not. 

Oh. Well then the answer is obviously that Person A is from the former group and Person B is from the latter group. Although I don't really see the relevance of this exercise.

[CJD]

(07-09-2019, 06:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I totally love that the 2 main folks that I am having this discussion with and the 3rd that just showed up are actually disagreeing with each other. I wonder if they realize it and ignoring it or don't realize it. Either way: I love it.

I can't speak for Belsnickel or GMDino, but I believe we are all saying the same thing. A MAGA hat is evidence of possible racism, but not definitive proof.

I'll let them interject if they disagree.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2019, 06:23 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Oh. Well then the answer is obviously that Person A is from the former group and Person B is from the latter group. Although I don't really see the relevance of this exercise.

If anything this back and forth proves that. 

[CJD]

(07-09-2019, 06:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If anything this back and forth proves that. 

I agree. Your conflation of proof and evidence is a theme of this entire discussion.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2019, 06:30 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I agree. Your conflation of proof and evidence is a theme of this entire discussion.

Nah, the theme is you think simply wearing a MAGA hat is evidence of someone being a racist. Is that you Jussie?

It's as "sound" as suggesting someone wearing a hoody is evidence of someone bein a thug. 

Of course you cannot speak for Matt or Dino, but silence is golden Ponyboy

 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-09-2019, 05:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: Most reports said the boys looked like they were doing racist things...and wearing MAGA hats.  They didn't say the boys were racist because they had MAGA hats on.

But that's not the kind of argument one wants to make when there is a victim card to be played.

In the initial stories they were also attacked for private/religious school kids...because of their alleged actions.

But, again, when one is trying to desperately project that all MAGA hat wearers are wrongly attacked that's something that can be ignored.  

Not everyone wearing khakis is a racist but if they are wearing khakis (and MAGA hats, btw) while carrying torches and chanting racist things well....

Again, if they were wearing any other hat, they would've been called immature teens. But because they had the MAGA hats on, it triggered the Left into attacking the boys and their is no other recourse than to crush your political enemy. Truth be damned. Both sides do it.


Generalize much?
No one has made that claim but you. Some have been wrongly attacked or do you deny that?

Some people have attacked while wearing the hat and some have attacked while not wearing the hat, which one makes the national news for the day?

[CJD]

(07-09-2019, 06:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nah, the theme is you think simply wearing a MAGA hat is evidence of someone being a racist. Is that you Jussie?

It's as "sound" as suggesting someone wearing a hoody is evidence of someone bein a thug. 

Of course you cannot speak for Matt or Dino, but silence is golden Ponyboy

Again, you're attempting to conflate things that shouldn't be.

As far as I know, hoodies are not the signature fashion choice of a noted thug. Nor do I know of a noted thug that, with explicit degree, indicated and distributed hoodies as paraphernalia to show your support for said noted thug.

If you have a link to a story like that, I would gladly read it and potentially re-evaluate my position.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2019, 06:58 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Again, you're attempting to conflate things that shouldn't be.

As far as I know, hoodies are not the signature fashion choice of a noted thug. Nor do I know of a noted thug that, with explicit degree, indicated and distributed hoodies as paraphernalia to show your support for said noted thug.

If you have a link to a story like that, I would gladly read it and potentially re-evaluate my position.

No you wouldn't.

You were already provided links to dispute your "no one is called racist without evidence" stance and have not re-evaluated your position; you've double downed on it. 


So I doubt linking stories of folks considering folks wearing hoodys as "evidence" of being a thug would change anything. 

[CJD]

(07-09-2019, 07:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No you wouldn't.

You were already provided links to dispute your "no one is called racist without evidence" stance and have not re-evaluated your position; you've double downed on it. 


So I doubt linking stories of folks considering folks wearing hoodys as "evidence" of being a thug would change anything. 

You provided links to dispute a stance I did not have, which was "no one is called racist without definitive proof." I never had that stance, so it makes sense that your links would not change my stance.

And I also didn't ask for stories about people treating hoodies like evidence. I asked for a story about a criminal staking claim on hoodies as "the symbol of those who support me and what I do."

Granted, that was tongue in cheek because I know that story doesn't exist. Because that'd be ridiculous. Unfortunately, you can't say the same for MAGA hats being explicit support of Donald Trump.

You're basically trying to tell me that a MAGA hat isn't proof that you support Trump and, by extension, his beliefs.

So I dunno what else to tell you other than Stay Golden, ponyboy.