Rick Santorum-Pure Democracies are no way to run a country

[*pally*]

Rick Santorum, noted right-wing conservative, said "pure democracies are no way to run a country"

or in other words...its not fair the majority of voters have the right to vote directly on things that conservatives don't like

this Newsmax copium is actually hitting pretty good pic.twitter.com/7UpFEar53Y

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) November 8, 2023

[*Nately120*]

If you can't win within the rules, petition the rules to change. This is akin to the 1998 Chicago Bears petitioning the NFL to score games via punting statistics rather than comparing the actual scores.

[CKwi88]

GOP has really leaned into saying the quiet parts out loud recently.

[Arturo Bandini]

It is funny to see these people always arguing for the most abusive stances complaining that people don't vote for them.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Santorum has been out of office for 16+ years. Yet you're treating him as a voice of the GOP? Got any Strom Thurmond quotes you want brought up?

[CJD]

Former Politician: "The people shouldn't be allowed to have their own policies they believe in. They must choose between the policies held by the few candidates they are offered each November from the two mega parties that take donations from (but definitely are not influenced by *wink*) powerful corporations and interest groups."

[*Nately120*]

(11-08-2023, 06:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Santorum has been out of office for 16+ years.  Yet you're treating him as a voice of the GOP?  Got any Strom Thurmond quotes you want brought up?

He's relevant because he knows how it feels to lose an election due to doubling down on conservatives stances and issues that his state found wildly unpopular.

Why has Santorum been out of politics since 2007 and why has Bob Casey been in that senate seat for 16+ years?  Because they had to count those damn votes from those damn people.  A pure democracy done did his ass in.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-08-2023, 06:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He's relevant because he knows how it feels to lose an election due to doubling down on conservatives stances and issues that his state found wildly unpopular.

Why has Santorum been out of politics since 2007 and why has Bob Casey been in that senate seat for 16+ years?  Because they had to count those damn votes from those damn people.  A pure democracy done did his ass in.

We both know he's irrelevant, he was a one term senator and has been out of politics for over a decade.  Pathetically trying to prop him up as the voice of the GP just isn't going to work.

[NATI BENGALS]

Sure would be nice to eliminate the electoral college and be a pure democracy.

[*Nately120*]

(11-08-2023, 06:34 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: We both know he's irrelevant, he was a one term senator and has been out of politics for over a decade.  Pathetically trying to prop him up as the voice of the GP just isn't going to work.

He'd still be a senator and relevant if voters weren't allowed to hold politicians accountable for stridently promising to do things they don't want.  His irrelevance is proof that voters have too much power when it comes to voting down unpopular candidates and polices if their power to vote goes unimpeded. 

All jokes aside and maybe this is more relevant to me since I live in PA, but Santorum is a textbook example of a candidate who was told what he was saying and supporting wasn't going to fly and he just stayed the course and got "democratically removed" because of it.  That's gotta sting.




(also, geez I feel old for 2007 not seeming like "all that long ago" despite it being 16 years ago)

[*pally*]

(11-08-2023, 06:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Santorum has been out of office for 16+ years.  Yet you're treating him as a voice of the GOP?  Got any Strom Thurmond quotes you want brought up?

Do you mean a man who ran for president as recently as 2016,? A man who worked at a major network as a political analyst until 2021? A man who has worked at a prominent conservative media organization since the end of 2021? A man that even today regularly appears as a speaker at conservative events?   

Yeah....Santorum is not a nobody in the current GOP and right-wing world

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-08-2023, 06:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He'd still be a senator and relevant if voters weren't allowed to hold politicians accountable for stridently promising to do things they don't want.  His irrelevance is proof that voters have too much power when it comes to voting down unpopular candidates and polices if their power to vote goes unimpeded. 

All jokes aside and maybe this is more relevant to me since I live in PA, but Santorum is a textbook example of a candidate who was told what he was saying and supporting wasn't going to fly and he just stayed the course and got "democratically removed" because of it.  That's gotta sting.

I'm sure it did.  From what I recall of him he was a hard core right winger with some very archaic positions.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-08-2023, 06:49 PM)pally Wrote: Do you mean a man who ran for president as recently as 2016,? A man who worked at a major network as a political analyst until 2021? A man who has worked at a prominent conservative media organization since the end of 2021? A man that even today regularly appears as a speaker at conservative events?   

Yeah....Santorum is not a nobody in the current GOP and right-wing world

Whatever you have to tell yourself to justify your prejudices.  Literally no one thinks of Santorum as a relevant figure in the GOP.

[*Nately120*]

(11-08-2023, 06:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Whatever you have to tell yourself to justify your prejudices.  Literally no one thinks of Santorum as a relevant figure in the GOP.

You may be right.  The GOP backing Doug Mastriano in 2022 indicates they sure weren't taking Santorum's follies into account. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-08-2023, 06:49 PM)pally Wrote: Do you mean a man who ran for president as recently as 2016,? A man who worked at a major network as a political analyst until 2021? A man who has worked at a prominent conservative media organization since the end of 2021? A man that even today regularly appears as a speaker at conservative events?   

Yeah....Santorum is not a nobody in the current GOP and right-wing world

2016 was 7 years ago, and he got 0.05% of the vote in the primary before withdrawing. I think that's more proving SSF's point than yours.

I would say he's Republican version of Martin O'Malley who also ran for President as recently as 2016, but even O'Malley got nominated for a government position this year.

[Belsnickel]

Ok, so, he's not relevant, sure. But also...he isn't wrong. There is a reason we utilize a representative democracy. There is a reason why there are checks and balances.

I firmly believe in the need for some ballot referendums. All state constitutional amendments should face ballot referendums. Beyond that, though, ballot referendums result in some really stupid shit. I mean, the entire reason Colorado was so quick to legalize and tax marijuana was because they made it so that income tax increases had to be done by ballot so they were going broke because the people were never going to vote for an increase on their taxes.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-08-2023, 08:19 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Ok, so, he's not relevant, sure. But also...he isn't wrong. There is a reason we utilize a representative democracy. There is a reason why there are checks and balances.

I firmly believe in the need for some ballot referendums. All state constitutional amendments should face ballot referendums. Beyond that, though, ballot referendums result in some really stupid shit. I mean, the entire reason Colorado was so quick to legalize and tax marijuana was because they made it so that income tax increases had to be done by ballot so they were going broke because the people were never going to vote for an increase on their taxes.

CA has had "propositions" essentially the same thing, for some time.  They are abused to hell and back.  I prefer them to solely allowing the legislature dictate the laws, but it's, as you say, a far from perfect system.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

On Jan 6, 2021, and just recently, I've had many high-level GOP operatives say to me, "Throughout history, all democracies eventually fail and they end up in violent bloody endings, and besides that, we are a republic, not a democracy."

They know they cannot win many national races, so now they're trying to find another way to gain political power.

So the way the GOP under Trump is transforming is exactly to this theory and it is a move towards autocratic dictatorship. Steve Bannon is telling people to get ready to burn all of our institutions down and scrap the Constitution. There's a reason why Trump loves and holds in high regard all autocrats of the world. He's already planted the seeds to try and convince people that all democracies are rigged and it's time for a new system of gov't.

[Belsnickel]

(11-08-2023, 10:11 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: On Jan 6, 2021, and just recently, I've had many high-level GOP operatives say to me, "Throughout history, all democracies eventually fail and they end up in violent bloody endings, and besides that, we are a republic, not a democracy."

Well, they are both right and wrong. All democracies do eventually fail. In fact, the US has really been quite an outlier in this regard. However, the statement that "we are a republic, not a democracy," is ignorant. Republic and democracy mean the same thing: rule by the people. Definitively, there is no real difference. We have a representative government that derives its power from the people and is selected by them. That was unique at the time and there really was no word for it. The framers used democracy and republic interchangeably because they mean the same thing, just with different roots (one Greek and one Latin), and there was no word for that we have. The source of this confusion is James Madison who made the distinction we hear in those statements. However, he was alone in this distinction and, quite frankly, wrong.

Anyway, as much as it is common for democracies to fail, I am one who is in favor of keeping ours alive which is my problem with the modern GOP. The MAGA movement is decidedly anti-democratic and that is a concern. We have the longest running constitutional democracy in the world and I would like to keep that up.

[*pally*]

(11-08-2023, 06:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Whatever you have to tell yourself to justify your prejudices.  Literally no one thinks of Santorum as a relevant figure in the GOP.

Exactly what prejudices am I trying to justify by pointing out Santorum's statement?  I know you believe he is irrelevant and no one takes him seriously, but he states beliefs that are found in a large number of Newsmax viewers.  Trump regularly promotes Newsmax to his supporters.  Personally, I think that organization and their talking heads are full of crap.  Unfortunately, many Newsmax viewers do not share that belief. I am glad you are one who sees through their nonsense.