Robot Bomb

[Rotobeast]

(07-09-2016, 01:48 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: As JustwinBaby mentioned, I think that may have been the main reason they decided to bomb him.

For future reference: if you are ever surrounded by police, don't tell them you have a bomb... or you'll get blowed up!!

Or.... if it's a false flag operation, you make sure there's nothing left of your operative.

(feel free to return the smiley)

[Millhouse]

(07-09-2016, 01:49 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Or firefighters.

How much 'honor' or 'respect' are you supposed to show someone whose job is working a joystick?

Well whoever put the bomb on it and knew how to get it to remote detonate successfully gets my respect. The one controlling it gets my respect too because the pressure he or she was under to do so successfully.

(07-09-2016, 01:51 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Far from it

pssst it was a lighthearted joke 

[Bengalzona]

(07-09-2016, 02:04 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Well whoever put the bomb on it and knew how to get it to remote detonate successfully gets my respect. The one controlling it gets my respect too because the pressure he or she was under to do so successfully.


pssst it was a lighthearted joke 

We now have a video of the brave hero who took out the suspect:

[McC]

You execute a bunch of cops, you pretty much deserve whatever happens to you.

[Benton]

Judge dredd was a good comic, but I don't like applying the premise in real life. Murderer or not, there has to be a significant effort to bring the person to the courts. In this case, there may have been that effort to bring him in, I dont know.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-09-2016, 01:06 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: When the suspect is holed up in a house alone somewhere in the countryside, should they just pound the house with a 203mm barrage and reduce it to dust? 

Maybe they could just bring out an MLRS battery and reduce the whole grid square. 

But they didn't employ a disproportionate amount of force.  So what is the difference between a bomb delivered via a robot and a drone piloted remotely?  Essentially, I don't see a difference.

So what is the difference between a bomb delivered via a robot and a team of door kickers stacked on a wall with bad intentions?  If they reached the point the suspect was armed and dangerous, had already used deadly force, and was not going to surrender without further violence any sort of assault team isn't going to use nonlethal munitions.  Would you send in an assault team if you thought the suspect was armed with a bomb and hope your team kills him before he blows them up?

I doubt there is an aftermarket line of bolt on, nonlethal munitions accessories for your EOD robot, but maybe I should apply for some patents. 

[Bengalzona]

(07-09-2016, 02:34 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: But they didn't employ a disproportionate amount of force.  So what is the difference between a bomb delivered via a robot and a drone piloted remotely?  Essentially, I don't see a difference.

So what is the difference between a bomb delivered via a robot and a team of door kickers stacked on a wall with bad intentions?  If they reached the point the suspect was armed and dangerous, had already used deadly force, and was not going to surrender without further violence any sort of assault team isn't going to use nonlethal munitions.  Would you send in an assault team if you thought the suspect was armed with a bomb and hope your team kills him before he blows them up?

I doubt there is an aftermarket line of bolt on, nonlethal munitions accessories for your EOD robot, but maybe I should apply for some patents. 

No difference between a bomb delivered via a robot and a drone piloted remotely. Those are essentially the same. But the question is not a difference between those delivery methods. It's a question of whether police should even use bombing holed-up suspects as a tactic.

Is there a reason why they didn't want to wait this guy out? 

Maybe there is. I don't know all of the details. And I'm not trying to "call you out". Just wondering.

[GMDino]

(07-09-2016, 02:52 AM)Millhouse Wrote: I guess they could've used a flashbang, to stun the shooter long enough before they got close enough to fill him with bullets. 

(07-09-2016, 04:09 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Shoot, stab, harpoon, robot bomb... dont care. Eliminate the threat. When you go on killing rampages and dig in... You dont have any rights. He didnt give up or submit. He was still a threat.

Easily proper escalation of force.

(07-09-2016, 11:16 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Cop killers usually don't see trial.  I would say "never" but I'm sure there are a few who did.

So bomb, shoot, whatever...  the guy was doomed.

I doubt they would use this tactic on usual crime suspects.

Also...  could this not be a high profile message to future rouge terrorist wannabes(like the Pulse shooter)?

You F with the police and you'll be esploded into globules !!

(07-09-2016, 01:11 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Lol that would do some serious damage. But after killing cops he wasn't going to come out alive

(07-09-2016, 02:17 PM)McC Wrote: You execute a bunch of cops, you pretty much deserve whatever happens to you.

(07-09-2016, 02:32 PM)Benton Wrote: Judge dredd was a good comic, but I don't like applying the premise in real life. Murderer or not, there has to be a significant effort to bring the person to the courts. In this case, there may have been that effort to bring him in, I dont know.

In a place, by himself, without the ability to shoot anyone else?  Says he has a bomb?  Keep him there until he gives up or blows himself up.

Much like the use of drones the further we separate the killing of another human from the person doing it the worse we will become as a society.

Edit: Not that I think this POS deserved to live. But we do have a legal system here.

[Bengalzona]

BTW- I am not necessarily unhappy that this POS was blown to bits (even though it would have been more poetic for him to do it to himself). I am just concerned with this tactic becoming so commonplace and standard among police that it becomes misused.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-09-2016, 02:44 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: No difference between a bomb delivered via a robot and a drone piloted remotely. Those are essentially the same. But the question is not a difference between those delivery methods. It's a question of whether police should even use bombing holed-up suspects as a tactic.

Is there a reason why they didn't want to wait this guy out? 

Maybe there is. I don't know all of the details. And I'm not trying to "call you out". Just wondering.

It's Texas.  Do they need another explanation?

The only information I've seen as to why they used the robot to deliver a bomb was to reduce the risk of death or serious injury to other officers.  I haven't seen any information they used the bomb in an attempt to detonate a suspected bomb via sympathetic detonation.  I haven't seen an explanation as to why they chose that COA over waiting him out.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-09-2016, 02:55 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: BTW- I am not necessarily unhappy that this POS was blown to bits (even though it would have been more poetic for him to do it to himself). I am just concerned with this tactic becoming so commonplace and standard among police that it becomes misused.

In my mind, I am less concerned about the use of deadly force in this situation than in the Minnesota shooting for example.  In the Dallas robot bombing scenario the decision to use deadly force via a robot was slower and more deliberate which would allow for more problem solving to explore other COA.  Whereas, in the recent police shootings in Minnesota and Louisiana the situations escalated quickly and the inappropriate use of deadly force was a result of poor judgment based upon the time constraints of the situation the officer faced.  I remember watching the video of a police officer shooting a fleeing suspect in his back in Charleston, SC after a traffic stop for a broken tail light and thinking, "What the f___ were you thinking?"  Every single incident of inappropriate use of force by police I am aware of involved poor judgment during a snap decision.  I don't know if these mistakes were made due to a lack of training, a lack of experience, or the individual officers were effin' idiots.  But, I'm more concerned about that than robot bombings becoming common place.

[Belsnickel]

(07-09-2016, 02:55 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: BTW- I am not necessarily unhappy that this POS was blown to bits (even though it would have been more poetic for him to do it to himself). I am just concerned with this tactic becoming so commonplace and standard among police that it becomes misused.

I was just having this discussion with my wife. I am not comfortable with the use of bombs like that. I have a hard time explaining why, but the use of explosives on our citizenry in that way is not something I agree with. I think a lot of people are going to end up being uncomfortable with this when a more public discussion is had.

Of course, I also disagree with the use of weaponized drones in warfare, so there is that.

[Millhouse]

(07-09-2016, 02:55 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: BTW- I am not necessarily unhappy that this POS was blown to bits (even though it would have been more poetic for him to do it to himself). I am just concerned with this tactic becoming so commonplace and standard among police that it becomes misused.

I dont think it will because I dont think there are nough situations that warrant it. I think for this particular situation when there were no hostages, he was armed, already committed mass murder on the police none the less, and possibly had explosives, I will support this method. But for it to be used elsewhere, it pretty much has to be a very similar circumstance for it to be justified. 

[Bengalzona]

(07-09-2016, 03:12 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: It's Texas.  Do they need another explanation?

The only information I've seen as to why they used the robot to deliver a bomb was to reduce the risk of death or serious injury to other officers.  I haven't seen any information they used the bomb in an attempt to detonate a suspected bomb via sympathetic detonation.  I haven't seen an explanation as to why they chose that COA over waiting him out.

Reducing the risk of death or injury to officers can be a slippery slope, IMO. What if some department somewhere decides that poison gas might serve the same interest?

Not likely, but I'm just throwing it out there to fuel discussion.

[JustWinBaby]

(07-09-2016, 11:24 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What is the difference between a robot bomb and a drone piloted remotely?  Or an air burst HE round fired from a 203, shotgun, or similar delivery method? Or a satchel charge or a grenade?

I don't see a difference.

The difference is this is not the military...and the use of a bomb like this is just another step toward militarization of our police.  I think that's what most people are uncomfortable with.

[Belsnickel]

(07-09-2016, 05:25 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: The difference is this is not the military...and the use of a bomb like this is just another step toward militarization of our police.  I think that's what most people are uncomfortable with.

Yup.

[GMDino]

(07-09-2016, 05:25 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: The difference is this is not the military...and the use of a bomb like this is just another step toward militarization of our police.  I think that's what most people are uncomfortable with.

If the police want to use robot bombs who are we to judge?  Just do what the tell you without question and live with it.   

[JustWinBaby]

(07-09-2016, 08:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: If the police want to use robot bombs who are we to judge?  Just do what the tell you without question and live with it.   

Well, you ARE going to end-up doing what they say, one way or another.  You have the courts as recourse.  You're mocking of this is the sort of stupid and irresponsible perspective that leads to people resisting arrest and getting themselves killed, and also contributing to a hyper-sensitive edge in some cops.

As they say, we can do this the hard way or the easy way....the choice really is up to you.  The cop is going to react to you, so ultimately you have the most control to keep the situation from escalating.  And the more people with your attitude contribute to escalation, the more cops will be put into situations where mistakes are made.

[JustWinBaby]

Ugggh....saw it reported that they aren't even sure they can get a toxicology test because of the force of the bomb. I guess they didn't want to risk him being only half-dead.

[GMDino]

(07-09-2016, 08:33 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Well, you ARE going to end-up doing what they say, one way or another.  You have the courts as recourse.  You're mocking of this is the sort of stupid and irresponsible perspective that leads to people resisting arrest and getting themselves killed, and also contributing to a hyper-sensitive edge in some cops.

As they say, we can do this the hard way or the easy way....the choice really is up to you.  The cop is going to react to you, so ultimately you have the most control to keep the situation from escalating.  And the more people with your attitude contribute to escalation, the more cops will be put into situations where mistakes are made.

I was mocking, but only for the perspective that EVERYONE is human and if someone yelled directions at me I might hesitate in the best of circumstances.

Using that as justification for the death of people is what I have a problem with.  I've said many times that you should do as you are told...but sometimes that isn't enough for the officer either.