Roe Vs Wade Overturned

[basballguy]

(06-24-2022, 04:55 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: 1. This isn't a Biden thing. Trump appointed the people responsible for this. Trump always wanted to overturn Roe vs. Wade. 


2. What you said is true, but I believe there was motive behind it. Why even mess with it if there wasn't? Federal government is staying out of it, but by doing so they are SEVERLY limiting a woman's right to an abortion and making it illegal for over half the Woman in the US. That is purposeful. If you think this is "giving people more power" then I just straight up disagree with that. Rights that were protected by the government are now not. 

3. I personally disagree with the decision. I have struggled with whether I am pro life or pro choice my entire life (and am still unsure to be honest) but the effects of this are going to be devastating. Woman who are raped or unable to provide or care for a child will be unable to have an abortion. Crime rates will sky rocket. Mental health and families will deteriorate. 

It's a big deal. 

Your first part of #3 is exactly the same reason why lawmakers haven't touched it in 50 years.  They would rather not deal with it.  They had plenty of time to get it a permanent home in the constitution.  It shouldn't have been left a supreme court decision if it really was a "right".  

being "unable to provide care" for a child....in my opinion is not a good reason for an abortion.  Give the kid a fighting chance in this world.  

Times are different now....birth control is much more accessible now than it was 50 years ago.  Why are we expected to be more responsible with our diets, the environment, how we treat each other...but when it comes to our reproductive organs, we'd rather have laws enabling us to be LESS responsible?  It's silly.  

I don't think abortion should be outlawed....i think the best compromise is Texas' heartbeat law in most cases.  Though i'm not sure if it'll stay  now..  

[*Nately120*]

(06-24-2022, 05:18 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: 5 people none of us have ever voted for just took rights away from half the country.

Does not sit right with me.

This is the type of shit that makes people feel like a cornered animal and makes them lash out

It is pretty interesting and it really mocks our feel-good democratic narrative.

You want your voices heard?  Get out there and vote!

Ok, and the votes are in and the person who gets to pick the next 3 SC justices is...........the guy who lost by 3 million votes!  Thanks for playing!

[grampahol]

My views on Roe were formed the day it was passed when my grandmother and mother discussed never having to hold the hand of a your woman as she bleeds to death from a back ally botched abortion again.. My grandmother was big on abortion rights and lived through times when people were sent to prison for it. She lived through a time when families had to chose between letting one child starve to death so the others could survive. If we ever get in another deep depression we're headed straight back to the same conditions and that's why Roe happened in the first place. The SCOTUS judges sitting in the bench at the time also lived through those dark times. It wasn't that long ago. My mother was born just two years before the beginning of the last depression. My grandmother raised 7 kids in it.

[WeezyBengal]

(06-24-2022, 05:21 PM)basballguy Wrote: Your first part of #3 is exactly the same reason why lawmakers haven't touched it in 50 years.  They would rather not deal with it.  They had plenty of time to get it a permanent home in the constitution.  It shouldn't have been left a supreme court decision if it really was a "right".  

being "unable to provide care" for a child....in my opinion is not a good reason for an abortion.  Give the kid a fighting chance in this world.  

Times are different now....birth control is much more accessible now than it was 50 years ago.  Why are we expected to be more responsible with our diets, the environment, how we treat each other...but when it comes to our reproductive organs, we'd rather have laws enabling us to be LESS responsible?  It's silly.  

I don't think abortion should be outlawed....i think the best compromise is Texas' heartbeat law in most cases.  Though i'm not sure if it'll stay  now..  

Let's revisit this in a couple years. What makes you think they won't do to contraceptive what they just did to abortion? 

[WeezyBengal]

(06-24-2022, 05:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It is pretty interesting and it really mocks our feel-good democratic narrative.

You want your voices heard?  Get out there and vote!

Ok, and the votes are in and the person who gets to pick the next 3 SC justices is...........the guy who lost by 3 million votes!  Thanks for playing!

Yep. 

There's two sides to this. Abortion itself and whether you agree with it or not AND how this decision undermines what America was basically built on. 

The second part shouldn't sit well with ANYONE. 

[basballguy]

(06-24-2022, 05:06 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I’m not sure the GOP message of “we control your bodies” and “you will obey my religious principles” is going to sit well with voters who are not already brainwashed. And hell some of the brainwashed ones may even frown on this.

This is bad. Why on a Friday? I feel like this is going to be a bad weekend.


I wonder if this is what it feels like living under taliban rule

Where in the supreme court ruling did they say the GOP control peoples bodies?  Or where did it speak about religious principals?  

I recommend you read the decision then start posting on it.  

[grampahol]

(06-24-2022, 05:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It is pretty interesting and it really mocks our feel-good democratic narrative.

You want your voices heard?  Get out there and vote!

Ok, and the votes are in and the person who gets to pick the next 3 SC justices is...........the guy who lost by 3 million votes!  Thanks for playing!

I'm all for expanding the court to include every single eligible voter in the United States..  Screw this 9 person appointed for life bullshit room full of nutbags..  Make all decisions the impact every American a decision we all have an equal vote in. m
Make supreme court voting day mandatory and a national holiday and voting lasts for a full week to allow everyone to participate.

Oh well..I won't get a vote..

[basballguy]

(06-24-2022, 05:26 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Let's revisit this in a couple years. What makes you think they won't do to contraceptive what they just did to abortion? 

I am not vastly familiar with the laws around contraceptives so I don't think i'm educated enough to comment.  

(06-24-2022, 05:28 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yep. 

There's two sides to this. Abortion itself and whether you agree with it or not AND how this decision undermines what America was basically built on. 

The second part shouldn't sit well with ANYONE. 

Couldn't disagree more.  This country was literally built on the idea the states would govern themselves.  10th amendment man....

All I can say is we're the united states of america.  If it gets left to the state like everything else then that's fine by me.  If it needs to be an actual right then lawmakers need to get it a home in the constitution and not lazily hope the SCOTUS will rule on it for them.  

Colorado will let you buy weed.
Nevada will let you gamble in casinos
Arizona will let you gamble online
New Jersey won't let you pump your own gas
California will do all the weird shit they do

People want to do certain things they move to certain states...that's the way it's always been.  People like being surrounded by like minded individuals.  

The states have a right to govern themselves on anything outside the constitution.  The weak argument of tying Roe v Wade to privacy was clearly just that.  (So says the SCOTUS, not me)

[Bengalfan4life27c]

With Biden taking executive action to ban 99 percent of nicotine in all cigarettes and vapes by 2023 Trump VS Biden is like choosing between Hitler and Castro

[*Nately120*]

(06-24-2022, 05:46 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: With Biden taking executive action to ban 99 percent of nicotine in all cigarettes and vapes by 2023 Trump VS Biden is like choosing between Hitler and Castro

Well, this is the result of the GOP successfully convincing a significant portion of this country that loving freedom and being a patriot starts and ends with saluting a flag.  I have to respect them, in the most cynical way possible...they figured it out.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Regardless of how you feel about the issue of abortion, I think the SCOTUS made the correct decision in regard as to their specific function. Tying Roe to the right to privacy guaranteed by the 14th amendment was always tenuous at best, really a house built on quicksand. Abortion is obviously not named as a right anywhere in the Constitution, hence it falls under the 10th amendment, which is anything not specifically delineated as under the auspices of the federal government falls to the individual states. The Dems had numerous chances, most recently under Obama, to codify Roe into federal law. In fact Obama campaigned on doing exactly that and once in office stated it was no longer a priority.

https://www.reuters.com/article/obama-abortion/obama-says-abortion-rights-law-not-a-top-priority-idUKN2946642020090430

I say this as a person who has zero issue with the right to choose and as a person who is cognizant of the hardships this places on women who reside in states that will ban abortion. But SCOTUS made the correct interpretation of the Constitution in this matter. Now, if you want to push for federal codification of Roe, I'm right there with you, but this outrage over the decision is misplaced and based solely on emotion and not an accurate understanding of how our government works. The people in Congress who don't get this, or are being deliberately obtuse about it, are acting in ignorance or utterly bad faith and people are going to get hurt from their fomenting outrage and anger.

[grampahol]

(06-24-2022, 05:36 PM)basballguy Wrote: I am not vastly familiar with the laws around contraceptives so I don't think i'm educated enough to comment.  


Couldn't disagree more.  This country was literally built on the idea the states would govern themselves.  10th amendment man....

All I can say is we're the united states of america.  If it gets left to the state like everything else then that's fine by me.  If it needs to be an actual right then lawmakers need to get it a home in the constitution and not lazily hope the SCOTUS will rule on it for them.  

Colorado will let you buy weed.
Nevada will let you gamble in casinos
Arizona will let you gamble online
New Jersey won't let you pump your own gas
California will do all the weird shit they do

People want to do certain things they move to certain states...that's the way it's always been.  People like being surrounded by like minded individuals.  

The states have a right to govern themselves on anything outside the constitution.  The weak argument of tying Roe v Wade to privacy was clearly just that.  (So says the SCOTUS, not me)

And yet the very same goddamned court packed with extremists decided states can't decide their own gun laws.. hell, the court can't even interpret the second amendment properly with no idea of what constitutes a well regulated militia..  You trust them with a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy? I sure as hell don't. this court in my view is completely illegitimate. Most of them lied outright in their confirmation hearings in congress on the Roe case itself.  They all said Roe was settled law..

[*Nately120*]

(06-24-2022, 05:36 PM)basballguy Wrote: I am not vastly familiar with the laws around contraceptives so I don't think i'm educated enough to comment.  


Couldn't disagree more.  This country was literally built on the idea the states would govern themselves.  10th amendment man....

All I can say is we're the united states of america.  If it gets left to the state like everything else then that's fine by me.  If it needs to be an actual right then lawmakers need to get it a home in the constitution and not lazily hope the SCOTUS will rule on it for them.  

Colorado will let you buy weed.
Nevada will let you gamble in casinos
Arizona will let you gamble online
New Jersey won't let you pump your own gas
California will do all the weird shit they do

People want to do certain things they move to certain states...that's the way it's always been.  People like being surrounded by like minded individuals.  

The states have a right to govern themselves on anything outside the constitution.  The weak argument of tying Roe v Wade to privacy was clearly just that.  (So says the SCOTUS, not me)

I get this to an extent.  I've moved from PA to NY to Chicago and back in my life, but I was a college educated bachelor who was going to grad school and moving for jobs and so on.  The average American can't even afford to miss a few paychecks much less quit 1 or 2 jobs, uproot the entire family, and move X number of states over.

Maybe there will be a great migration.  The Oregon Trail of the new millennium. 

[WeezyBengal]

(06-24-2022, 05:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Regardless of how you feel about the issue of abortion, I think the SCOTUS made the correct decision in regard as to their specific function.  Tying Roe to the right to privacy guaranteed by the 14th amendment was always tenuous at best, really a house built on quicksand.  Abortion is obviously not named as a right anywhere in the Constitution, hence it falls under the 10th amendment, which is anything not specifically delineated as under the auspices of the federal government falls to the individual states.  The Dems had numerous chances, most recently under Obama, to codify Roe into federal law.  In fact Obama campaigned on doing exactly that and once in office stated it was no longer a priority.

https://www.reuters.com/article/obama-abortion/obama-says-abortion-rights-law-not-a-top-priority-idUKN2946642020090430

I say this as a person who has zero issue with the right to choose and as a person who is cognizant of the hardships this places on women who reside in states that will ban abortion.  But SCOTUS made the correct interpretation of the Constitution in this matter.  Now, if you want to push for federal codification of Roe, I'm right there with you, but this outrage over the decision is misplaced and based solely on emotion and not an  accurate understanding of how our government works.  The people in Congress who don't get this, or are being deliberately obtuse about it, are acting in ignorance or utterly bad faith and people are going to get hurt from their fomenting outrage and anger.

This is a pretty down to earth and sensible response. Thanks for that. 

[grampahol]

(06-24-2022, 05:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I get this to an extent.  I've moved from PA to NY to Chicago and back in my life, but I was a college educated bachelor who was going to grad school and moving for jobs and so on.  The average American can't even afford to miss a few paychecks much less quit 1 or 2 jobs, uproot the entire family, and move X number of states over.

Maybe there will be a great migration.  The Oregon Trail of the new millennium. 

I've done it multiple times.. It's not really a matter of not being able to. It's more the unwillingness to do it. People damned sure uprooted families and moved across the country in whatever had wheels during the last depression and many starved doing it..  I guarantee if my family was starving I'd find a way to move them...even if I had to sell my car and buy a horse.. 
I have no idea what fate holds for my grandkids. i can only hope.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

What made our court system special was their respect for precedent. Now were like every other shithole country where we are at the mercy of what political party a judge happens to be.

[*Nately120*]

(06-24-2022, 05:55 PM)grampahol Wrote: I've done it multiple times.. It's not really a matter of not being able to. It's more the unwillingness to do it. People damned sure uprooted families and moved across the country in whatever had wheels during the last depression and many starved doing it..  I guarantee if my family was starving I'd find a way to move them...even if I had to sell my car and buy a horse.. 

If we have poor people moving from one state to another with little to no plan of how the hell they're going to make it in the new state we are going to have politicians campaigning on promises to build walls between states.  Our disdain for the poor coming in and ruining stuff is hardly reserved for foreigners any more.  Americans don't like each other.

Side note, I live in PA...how many pro life people are going to leave this state in protest of abortion still being legal here?  It could happen, but most people just stay put. 

[basballguy]

(06-24-2022, 05:49 PM)grampahol Wrote: And yet the very same goddamned court packed with extremists decided states can't decide their own gun laws.. hell, the court can't even interpret the second amendment properly with no idea of what constitutes a well regulated militia..  You trust them with a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy? I sure as hell don't. this court in my view is completely illegitimate. Most of them lied outright in their confirmation hearings in congress on the Roe case itself.  They all said Roe was settled law..

Bro, the right to bear arms is literally in the constitution.  You know this.  I get your frustration but it's supposed to be a simple formula....if it's in the constitution, you can expect federal laws.  If it's not...the states get it.

Edit: And terminating pregnancy is not a "right"....we just think it is because it was loosely tied to privacy. If it was a right it would be in the constitution.

[NATI BENGALS]

(06-24-2022, 05:29 PM)basballguy Wrote: Where in the supreme court ruling did they say the GOP control peoples bodies?  Or where did it speak about religious principals?  

I recommend you read the decision then start posting on it.  

Just reading between the lines. This was settled. Until the GOP packed the court and forced their religious beliefs on the population.

I could care less what the bullshit legal writings say. I know what it means for us peons and I know who caused it.

[grampahol]

(06-24-2022, 05:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If we have poor people moving from one state to another with little to no plan of how the hell they're going to make it in the new state we are going to have politicians campaigning on promises to build walls between states.  Our disdain for the poor coming in and ruining stuff is hardly reserved for foreigners any more.  Americans don't like each other.

Side note, I live in PA...how many pro life people are going to leave this state in protest of abortion still being legal here?  It could happen, but most people just stay put. 

Life isn't as difficult as some make it out to be moving place to place. Nobody ever promised it would be easy, but it's always an option. Then again I am a bit of a strange bird myself.. I was willing to uproot and lose everything I owned a few times in life already .. You'd be surprised how quickly you acquire new crap after losing everything.. I moved to SC with an old guitar and the clothes on my back just about 8 years ago. I now have a full shop full of equipment, all new clothes and a whole lot of other crap I don't know what to do with anymore.. I dread the idea of moving again.. We've considered selling everything and taking off in a van  to parts unknown, but it's just myself and the Mrs and we have about $50000 in the bank between us and a house completely paid for worth about $250,000.. We could get a pretty slick van I suppose..