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Roe Vs Wade Overturned
#61
(06-24-2022, 09:54 PM)basballguy Wrote: You really thing something that impacts less than 1% of the population is going to outweigh inflation, supply chain issues, Ukraine, crashing 401ks and increasing debt?

You really think people are going to vote with their Facebook profile and not the issues that ACTUALLY impact their lives?

You are going to be severely disappointed

Yes. Because mobilization is why incumbent parties usually lose mid terms. These topics have only ever impacted a small portion of people on either side but they have always been massive mobilization platforms. Donald Trump didn’t get bounced for things effecting most the country (inflation, 401ks, etc), he got bounced because of mobilization efforts around larger picture topics that didn’t impact most people.

The reality is youth voters are the sleeping giant of elections and it usually takes large cultural topics to mobilize them. Flippantly dismissing it because the topics seem irrelevant to you is a fools errand.
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#62
(06-24-2022, 09:54 PM)basballguy Wrote: You really thing something that impacts less than 1% of the population is going to outweigh inflation, supply chain issues, Ukraine, crashing 401ks and increasing debt?  

You really think people are going to vote with their Facebook profile and not the issues that ACTUALLY impact their lives?

You are going to be severely disappointed

You think 1 percent of the population uses birth control?  I'd blow Thomas's comments up everywhere if I were a Dem strategist.  
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#63
(06-24-2022, 10:10 PM)samhain Wrote: You think 1 percent of the population uses birth control?  I'd blow Thomas's comments up everywhere if I were a Dem strategist.  

Yea the wasn’t worth going into because I’m guessing he didn’t know what those cases were referencing.Those cases actually impact a massive part of the population in various ways.
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#64
(06-24-2022, 10:11 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yea the wasn’t worth going into because I’m guessing he didn’t know what those cases were referencing.Those cases actually impact a massive part of the population in various ways.

He was foolish to ever utter the statement.  Abortion as a single issue might not swing things significantly, but gay marriage and contraceptives on the chopping block would be different.  I can't think of a ton of people I know, right or left, that have been outspokenly against birth control.  It's a pretty ingrained part of our sexual culture.  I highly doubt that trying to ban it, even in the reddest of red states would be popular with any majority.

Might as well go after porn and R-rated movies while they're at it.
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#65
(06-24-2022, 09:54 PM)basballguy Wrote: You really thing something that impacts less than 1% of the population is going to outweigh inflation, supply chain issues, Ukraine, crashing 401ks and increasing debt?  



I can't speak for the future, but I can tell you that podunk Pennsylvanians were far more concerned with Muslim terrorists storming the local diner and BINGO hall for most of my adult life than one would think logical.  I guess I'm sort of used to it around here, though.  I come from a town that had a bunch of factories at one point, but unions became less important than guns and welfare queens.  So it goes.

Anyways, never underestimate the power of unlikely but "could be super impactful given the 0.0001% chance it happens" stuff has on people.  Now, where did I put all those lottery tickets?


(06-24-2022, 10:16 PM)samhain Wrote: He was foolish to ever utter the statement.  Abortion as a single issue might not swing things significantly, but gay marriage and contraceptives on the chopping block would be different.  I can't think of a ton of people I know, right or left, that have been outspokenly against birth control.  It's a pretty ingrained part of our sexual culture.  I highly doubt that trying to ban it, even in the reddest of red states would be popular with any majority.

Might as well go after porn and R-rated movies while they're at it.

Do dudes ever complain about birth control?  I mean, isn't that like screaming that you never get laid?
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#66
(06-24-2022, 11:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can't speak for the future, but I can tell you that podunk Pennsylvanians were far more concerned with Muslim terrorists storming the local diner and BINGO hall for most of my adult life than one would think logical.  I guess I'm sort of used to it around here, though.  I come from a town that had a bunch of factories at one point, but unions became less important than guns and welfare queens.  So it goes.

Anyways, never underestimate the power of unlikely but "could be super impactful given the 0.0001% chance it happens" stuff has on people.  Now, where did I put all those lottery tickets?



Do dudes ever complain about birth control?  I mean, isn't that like screaming that you never get laid?

Nate you and I both know there are some guys who would argue life aint fair because they have little peckers, just 6 rotten teeth and smell like a sewer and it's women's faults they can't get laid..  meh..Life ain't fair..So what's new? Who ever promised life should be fair to everyone anyway?
In the immortal words of my old man, "Wait'll you get to be my age!"

Chicago sounds rough to the maker of verse, but the one comfort we have is Cincinnati sounds worse. ~Oliver Wendal Holmes Sr.


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#67
(06-24-2022, 10:04 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yes. Because mobilization is why incumbent parties usually lose mid terms. These topics have only ever impacted a small portion of people on either side but they have always been massive mobilization platforms. Donald Trump didn’t get bounced for things effecting most the country (inflation, 401ks, etc), he got bounced because of mobilization efforts around larger picture topics that didn’t impact most people.

The reality is youth voters are the sleeping giant of elections and it usually takes large cultural topics to mobilize them. Flippantly dismissing it because the topics seem irrelevant to you is a fools errand.

(06-24-2022, 10:10 PM)samhain Wrote: You think 1 percent of the population uses birth control?  I'd blow Thomas's comments up everywhere if I were a Dem strategist.  

(06-24-2022, 10:11 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yea the wasn’t worth going into because I’m guessing he didn’t know what those cases were referencing.Those cases actually impact a massive part of the population in various ways.

Yep I didn't have all the context of the comments, my bad.  

On topic - It's the same story.  The 14th Amendment is not a catch-all to circumvent the powers of the states.  If you want a law, amend the constitution or petition your state.  

With that said, it seems damn near impossible to get enough people to agree one way or the other at a federal level.....when it doubt, leave it to the states...that's the whole point of how this country was formed.  

While I don't care either way if any of these rulings stays or goes, I support any ruling that gives powers back to the individual states, we all should.  
-The only bengals fan that has never set foot in Cincinnati 1-15-22
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#68
A very dark day for women's rights.
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#69
(06-24-2022, 10:04 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yes. Because mobilization is why incumbent parties usually lose mid terms. These topics have only ever impacted a small portion of people on either side but they have always been massive mobilization platforms. Donald Trump didn’t get bounced for things effecting most the country (inflation, 401ks, etc), he got bounced because of mobilization efforts around larger picture topics that didn’t impact most people.

The reality is youth voters are the sleeping giant of elections and it usually takes large cultural topics to mobilize them. Flippantly dismissing it because the topics seem irrelevant to you is a fools errand.

(06-24-2022, 10:10 PM)samhain Wrote: You think 1 percent of the population uses birth control?  I'd blow Thomas's comments up everywhere if I were a Dem strategist.  

Not to mention that even the abortion topic alone is not just framed around the act of abortion. The rhetoric around abortion is that making it illegal is treating women as second-class citizens without full rights. That they do not have autonomy over their own bodies. Many women that never have had an abortion, or maybe never would consider getting one themselves, see this as a patriarchal move that disenfranchises them. That's the rhetoric around abortion for a large chunk of the population.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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#70
(06-25-2022, 09:01 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Not to mention that even the abortion topic alone is not just framed around the act of abortion. The rhetoric around abortion is that making it illegal is treating women as second-class citizens without full rights. That they do not have autonomy over their own bodies. Many women that never have had an abortion, or maybe never would consider getting one themselves, see this as a patriarchal move that disenfranchises them. That's the rhetoric around abortion for a large chunk of the population.

To add onto this topic with an anecdotal story, I married into a conservative family. My wife isn't opposed to voting blue (she never has), and I wouldn't be surprised if she does at some point in the future, but the rest of her family votes down party lines with no research. They vote Republican, or don't vote at all. I was mildly surprised to see the women in the family, despite being rather conservative individuals, speak out against the overturning of Roe v. Wade yesterday. I have never had the conversation with them, so I just never knew their stance but they are all pro-choice. Being in Oklahoma, abortion has already been ruled illegal and they were not happy about it. 

Now, this is only three women that we are talking about, but there are other women who are in this exact same situation. I don't think this should be a partisan issue, and last I remember, abortion had rather overwhelming support across the country (I'll defer to you on whether my memory is correct there). It also made me think that most of the arguments that I have been aware of against abortion are typically men arguing it. This isn't to say that there aren't women who argue it, but I seem to see a disproportionate amount of men arguing against it in comparison to women. 
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#71
(06-25-2022, 03:11 AM)basballguy Wrote: Yep I didn't have all the context of the comments, my bad.  

On topic - It's the same story.  The 14th Amendment is not a catch-all to circumvent the powers of the states.  If you want a law, amend the constitution or petition your state.  

With that said, it seems damn near impossible to get enough people to agree one way or the other at a federal level.....when it doubt, leave it to the states...that's the whole point of how this country was formed.  

While I don't care either way if any of these rulings stays or goes, I support any ruling that gives powers back to the individual states, we all should.  

All the slave states of the 1800's endorse your message.
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#72
(06-25-2022, 11:27 AM)GMDino Wrote: All the slave states of the 1800's endorse your message.

What a lazy and ignorant response.  I expect nothing less from you.  
-The only bengals fan that has never set foot in Cincinnati 1-15-22
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#73
(06-25-2022, 12:51 PM)basballguy Wrote: What a lazy and ignorant response.  I expect nothing less from you.  

Insightful, thoughtful responses like this are just one of the reasons I haven't been around for awhile.

Nothing has changed.
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#74
(06-25-2022, 01:58 PM)GMDino Wrote: Insightful, thoughtful responses like this are just one of the reasons I haven't been around for awhile.

Nothing has changed.
“The states got it wrong 222 years ago”

Ok dude. You don’t even say what you’re meaning. Are you implying the states shouldn’t decide for themselves? I’m not guessing what you mean. Again, lazy post.
-The only bengals fan that has never set foot in Cincinnati 1-15-22
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#75
"All men and women are CREATED EQUAL."

Men and women are CREATED when the sperm fertilizes the egg and the rest are just stages of development.
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#76
(06-25-2022, 02:50 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: "All men and women are CREATED EQUAL."

Men and women are CREATED when the sperm fertilizes the egg and the rest are just stages of development.

Conservatives say this stuff and then use man made borders as an excuse to ignore or even revel in the suffering and death of others.  

I'm sorry, people CREATED in different man-defined areas.  
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#77
(06-25-2022, 02:50 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: "All men and women are CREATED EQUAL."

Men and women are CREATED when the sperm fertilizes the egg and the rest are just stages of development.

There are people who possess the biological means of becoming pregnant and people who do not.
These two groups are not "equal" in terms of the impact of this recent decision by the Court.

One isn't required to undergo physical, hormonal and emotional changes to bring forth life.
One isn't required to endure pain, severe discomfort or various medical issues to bring forth life.
One isn't required to potentially be forced against their will and autonomy to bring forth life. 
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#78
(06-25-2022, 03:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Conservatives say this stuff and then use man made borders as an excuse to ignore or even revel in the suffering and death of others.  

I'm sorry, people CREATED in different man-defined areas.  

Their logic and priorities are always seem to trend in the same direction; intentional moral depravity.

Act: Children are murdered in school shootings.
Means: Use of firearms.
Conclusion: The right / freedom to access and utilize the means must be protected at all costs.

Act: Fetuses are terminated with an abortion.
Means: Consensual medical procedure.
Conclusion: The right / freedom to access and utilize the means must be denied at all costs.
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#79
(06-25-2022, 03:37 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Their logic and priorities are always seem to trend in the same direction; intentional moral depravity.

Act: Children are murdered in school shootings.
Means: Use of firearms.
Conclusion: The right / freedom to access and utilize the means must be protected at all costs.

Act: Fetuses are terminated with an abortion.
Means: Consensual medical procedure.
Conclusion: The right / freedom to access and utilize the means must be denied at all costs.

I meant more that there are countries and societies that are or were mandatory pro life for generations, yet those very countries are routinely looked down upon by conservatives. 

They are "bold" enough to call them the shitholes that they are, and yet...ah well.  
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#80
(06-25-2022, 03:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I meant more that there are countries and societies that are or were mandatory pro life for generations, yet those very countries are routinely looked down upon by conservatives. 

They are "bold" enough to call them the shitholes that they are, and yet...ah well.  

Indeed sir and you're correct.

I was just addressing the insanity of their logic in general, and I suppose the horrific irony that is their position on guns and abortions is still very prevalent in my mind, but as you stated, the lunacy extends far beyond that.
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