Roe Vs Wade Overturned

[GMDino]

This is...interesting.

https://www.al.com/politics/2024/02/biden-campaign-ties-alabama-supreme-court-ruling-frozen-embryos-are-children-to-trump-ending-roe-v-wade.html

Quote:

• Updated: Feb. 19, 2024, 3:22 p.m.|
• Published: Feb. 19, 2024, 3:16 p.m.
  

By 

• Howard Koplowitz | hkoplowitz@al.com
  

The Alabama Supreme Court ruling issued Friday determining frozen embryos are “children” was “made possible” by Donald Trump paving the way to end Roe v. Wade, the Biden campaign said.

“The Republican-appointed Alabama Supreme Court has ruled that frozen, unimplanted embryos qualify as ‘children,’ threatening access to IVF across the state,” the Biden-Harris campaign’s rapid response team said on social media.


“This is made possible by Donald Trump ending Roe v. Wade, which he calls a ‘miracle.’”





The Alabama Supreme Court ruled frozen embryos are “children” in the cases of three couples suing a fertility clinic and a Mobile hospital after a hospital patient destroyed the specimens.


The couples sued for wrongful death. A Mobile County Circuit Court judge threw out the wrongful death claims after ruling the embryos were not people, but the Alabama Supreme Court on Friday reversed Mobile County Circuit Court Judge Jill Parrish Phillips’ ruling to dismiss the case in 2022.


The Wrongful Death of a Minor Act “applies to all unborn children, regardless of their location,” wrote Alabama Supreme Court Justice Jay Mitchell. “[T]he Wrongful Death of a Minor Act is sweeping and unqualified. It applies to all children, born and unborn, without limitation. It is not the role of this Court to craft a new limitation based on our own view of what is or is not wise public policy. That is especially true where, as here, the People of this State have adopted a Constitutional amendment directly aimed at stopping courts from excluding ‘unborn life’ from legal protection.”


The couples accused the defendants of wrongful death, negligence and breach of contract in two lawsuits filed in 2021 in Mobile County Circuit Court.


Mobile Infirmary “allowed one of its patients to leave and/or elope from his or her room in the Infirmary’s hospital area and access the cryogenic storage area,” according to one of the lawsuits.


The patient removed embryos from the freezer, and “it is believed that the cryopreservation’s subzero temperatures burned the eloping patient’s hands, causing him or her to drop the cryopreserved embryonic human beings on the floor, where they began to slowly die,” one of the filings stated.


By the time hospital staff noticed the incident, all of the embryos died, according to the lawsuits.


Trump appointed three U.S. Supreme Court justices -- Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett -- instrumental in overturning Roe v. Wade.


The Alabama Supreme Court decision was hailed by Lila Rose, president and founder of the pro-life group Live Action.


”This decision made by the Alabama Supreme Court affirms the scientific reality that a new human life begins at the moment of fertilization,” Rose said. “Each person, from the tiniest embryo to an elder nearing the end of his life, has incalculable value that deserves and is guaranteed legal protection. This ruling, which involved a wrongful-death claim brought by parents against a fertility clinic that negligently caused the death of their children, rightly acknowledged the humanity of unborn children created through in vitro fertilization (IVF) and is an important step towards applying equal protection for all.”


The National Fertility Association said the ruling was “anti-family.


“Alabama’s Supreme Court ruling is a terrifying development for the one in six people impacted by infertility who need in-vitro fertilization to build their families,” the association said in a statement.
“This anti-family ruling will likely have devastating consequences, including impacting the standard of care provided by the state’s five fertility clinics. This new legal framework may make it impossible to offer services like IVF, a standard medical treatment for infertility. It also remains unclear what this decision means for families who currently have embryos stored at these clinics.”


The association said the ruling has national ramifications.


”One thing is certain: this ruling has profound implications far beyond Alabama’s borders,” the group said. “Every American who wants or needs access to family-building options like IVF should be deeply concerned about this development and the precedent it will set across the country. RESOLVE will continue to be on the front lines protecting these options and ensuring everyone has the support and access to family building support they deserve.”

[*pally*]

another gift to the Democrats. Even conservatives use IVF and now the radical Christian right is coming after that and birth control as well with this ruling as some forms like the IUD prevent implantation of the embryo.

[GMDino]

They're all in.  Of course they are.

Nikki Haley sides with Alabama Supreme Court on IVF ruling: 'Embryos, to me, are babies'

Scoop from @alivitali in North Augusta, SC:https://t.co/UwlIoL5Kc7 via @nbcnews

— Tom Namako (@TomNamako) February 21, 2024

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[NATI BENGALS]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/alabama-hospital-puts-pause-on-ivf-in-wake-of-ruling-saying-frozen-embryos-are-children

Already causing pauses in IVF work. So not only has the GOP okayed forcing women to have to carry and birth a child they didn’t want, they now are responsible for crushing the hopes and dreams of parents who wanted a child and needed help from science.

Any women who has never attempted to have a child before and is considering it in the future. May want to think really hard about that vote in November .

[Arturo Bandini]

Next step is that they'll tell you these embryo can cast a conservative vote by design.

[*pally*]

The University of Alabama at Birmingham, the major academic medical center in the state, has announced a pause in in vitro procedures due to fears of prosecution.

This cuts across political spectrums. And will be an issue in Nov because this is exactly the type of slippery slope scenario that we talked about with the overturn of Roe.

My niece is a wonderful mother to her 4 beautiful IVF children. She, her husband, and his family (including his sister who acted as their gestational carrier) would have been reliable Republican votes. Now not so much. They’ve already lost 4 of them.

[Arturo Bandini]

(02-22-2024, 10:39 AM)pally Wrote: The University of Alabama at Birmingham, the major academic medical center in the state, has announced a pause in in vitro procedures due to fears of prosecution.

This cuts across political spectrums. And will be an issue in Nov because this is exactly the type of slippery slope scenario that we talked about with the overturn of Roe.

My niece is a wonderful mother to her 4 beautiful IVF children. She, her husband, and his family (including his sister who acted as their gestational carrier) would have been reliable Republican votes.  Now not so much.  They’ve already lost 4 of them.

They don't care about other people and surely not about unborns.

Cruelty is the point and always have been. 

They love that because it hurts so many people and the weakest one, the one they despise while praying God for their own salute.

These people have no souls and if anyone think they will stop, they are deeply delusional.

[*pally*]

(02-22-2024, 11:09 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: They don't care about other people and surely not about unborns.

Cruelty is the point and always have been. 

They love that because it hurts so many people and the weakest one, the one they despise while praying God for their own salute.

These people have no souls and if anyone think they will stop, they are deeply delusional.

cruelty and control

you will follow their religious belief one way or another 

[Arturo Bandini]

(02-22-2024, 11:21 AM)pally Wrote: cruelty and control

you will follow their religious belief one way or another 

The current speaker of the house thinks God talks to him ...

What can go wrong ?

[*michaelsean*]

(02-20-2024, 09:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: This is...interesting.

https://www.al.com/politics/2024/02/biden-campaign-ties-alabama-supreme-court-ruling-frozen-embryos-are-children-to-trump-ending-roe-v-wade.html

I gotta think Alabama and Northern California (despite its beauty) are two places I would never want to live. I get you can file some sort of lawsuit if a place destroys your embryos, it’s like anything else, but wrongful death? And possible criminal charges. That’s insane.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-22-2024, 11:48 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: The current speaker of the house thinks God talks to him ...

What can go wrong ?

Didn’t God talk to you?

[GMDino]

(02-22-2024, 01:06 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Didn’t God talk to you?

That reminds me:  I've told the story before about my friend from college who "found god" and now attends classes to study the bible and preaches at a men's prison in his spare time to help convert them.

Back when we used to discuss religion a lot over dinner I asked him what would happen if I said god spoke to me and inspired through me a new gospel.

He said he'd have to read it, study it to see if it matched up with current theology and what is int he bible.  

I explained that this was a NEW gospel.  The old didn't matter anymore because god wanted us to make changes.

He said he couldn't believe that.

Which is why I repeat the line that it's funny how anyone who has god speak directly to them always seems to say god agrees exactly with what they are doing.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-22-2024, 01:06 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I gotta think Alabama and Northern California (despite its beauty) are two places I would never want to live.  I get you can file some sort of lawsuit if a place destroys your embryos, it’s like anything else, but wrongful death?  And possible criminal charges. That’s insane.

It's an interesting topic because, as Bel recently put it, there's no scientific standard you can set for when a fertilized egg becomes a human.  If you go the extreme then the moment an egg is fertilized it is a human being with all attendant rights.  I suppose you could go even further and state that even sperm and the egg are human, but that would make women a monthly murderer and men, well, you get it.  The other end of the spectrum is those who would refuse to outlaw an elective abortion just days before delivery, essentially the baby is not a actual human until it exits the mother's body.  I think the vast majority of people fall somewhere in the middle of that range, across a spectrum of course.

I think a lot of people don't realize that under the Roe decision the US had abortion laws far more permissive than the rest of Western society, with only China being on the same level.  Odd bedfellows indeed.  Now that this is the standard for many on the left they see any restrictions beyond that previous standard to be unacceptable.  I think a law more in line with the rest of the west, elective abortions in the first trimester range and after that only for solid medical reasons would probably satisfy 50-60% of the populace.  Until we can get the moderates on this issue to solidify around this type of law we're going to get more of these extremes, and extremes don't do any of us any good in the long term.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-22-2024, 01:22 PM)GMDino Wrote: That reminds me:  I've told the story before about my friend from college who "found god" and now attends classes to study the bible and preaches at a men's prison in his spare time to help convert them.

Back when we used to discuss religion a lot over dinner I asked him what would happen if I said god spoke to me and inspired through me a new gospel.

He said he'd have to read it, study it to see if it matched up with current theology and what is int he bible.  

I explained that this was a NEW gospel.  The old didn't matter anymore because god wanted us to make changes.

He said he couldn't believe that.

Which is why I repeat the line that it's funny how anyone who has god speak directly to them always seems to say god agrees exactly with what they are doing.

You essentially just described Mormonism.  Of course a Christian is going to reject that, their faith is based on the Bible.  Anything that deviates from that is not going to be seen as the same faith.  Speaking as a 100% agnostic person I don't see any kind of a contradiction there, and organized religion is full of them.

[Arturo Bandini]

(02-22-2024, 01:06 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Didn’t God talk to you?

Talking is not the word. But yes, I had a spiritual experience that I'm gladly sharing because it was way way out of this kind of 'conversation' that the New Moses has.

And you are right, I may take it personnally because these horrible people always fearing, blaming, harrassing, abusing the weakest give a terrible image of what that vibe is ...

[*michaelsean*]

(02-22-2024, 01:33 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Talking is not the word. But yes, I had a spiritual experience that I'm gladly sharing because it was way way out of this kind of 'conversation' that the New Moses has.

And you are right, I may take it personnally because these horrible people always fearing, blaming, harrassing, abusing the weakest give a terrible image of what that vibe is ...

What I’m saying is you if all people shouldn’t dismiss someone who says they talked to God in whatever form “talking” takes. Now if you dismiss it because you know or strongly believe God would never encourage a certain behavior then I could see that.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-22-2024, 01:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You essentially just described Mormonism.  Of course a Christian is going to reject that, their faith is based on the Bible.  Anything that deviates from that is not going to be seen as the same faith.  Speaking as a 100% agnostic person I don't see any kind of a contradiction there, and organized religion is full of them.

Understanding you are agnostic, I wil say I believe God “talks” to plenty of people, and I don’t think God’s message ever changes. Men change it to benefit themselves. Like creating a narcissistic psychopath who will torture you forever if you don’t get it right and continuously let God know how awesome God is. That’ll keep people in line, and create never ending power for the select few.

[*Nately120*]

(02-22-2024, 05:19 PM)michaelsean Wrote: What I’m saying is you if all people shouldn’t dismiss someone who says they talked to God in whatever form “talking” takes. Now if you dismiss it because you know or strongly believe God would never encourage a certain behavior then I could see that.

God just told me that Mike Johnson is full of shit.

[Arturo Bandini]

(02-22-2024, 05:19 PM)michaelsean Wrote: What I’m saying is you if all people shouldn’t dismiss someone who says they talked to God in whatever form “talking” takes. Now if you dismiss it because you know or strongly believe God would never encourage a certain behavior then I could see that.

I do agree as long as it doesn't mean to drive other people to your own agenda and to moralize people to your own beliefs.


As far as I know, when we've been discussing this, I never issued moral statements to anyone based on this. 

[*Nately120*]

(02-22-2024, 05:31 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I do agree as long as it doesn't mean to drive other people to your own agenda and to moralize people to your own beliefs.


As far as I know, when we've been discussing this, I never issued moral statements to anyone based on this. 

About a decade ago the crazy wife of a dude I know engaged in sexual intercourse with an 18 year old member of their church and when they attempted some church intervention and reconciliation apparently the kid said to him "God's already forgiven me and you will too eventually."  He was the odd man out of that triad of god-talking. He and his wife got divorced...quitters. 

Though he seems a lot happier now with his new wife and life.  God works in mysterious and occasionally perverted and sinful ways, I guess.