Rubio: Life begins at conception

[BmorePat87]

(08-10-2015, 02:52 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: How could you say that our technology one day couldn't be able to keep that alive and incubate it like a mother would? Technology improves dramatically constantly.

I can't. I'm just looking at a single cell zygote and wondering how that is considered a human. 

[BmorePat87]

(08-10-2015, 09:33 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: The very first and most important role that the government has is to protect the people, 

That's how I support this. I can't justify saying that a fetus both has rights and has the right to someone else's body, so I support removing restrictions on how much control the government has other a person's body. 

[GMDino]

(08-10-2015, 09:33 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I'm not speaking of what's legal, of course.  I don't base my opinions of morality solely by what is legal or not.  

I believe that life is the most precious gift that we have, and the right to live is the most sacred right.  

I just don't get how anyone can advocate for this.  The very first and most important role that the government has is to protect the people, and people are turning their backs onto the innocent who cannot protect themselves, and do so largely for political reasons.  

Sad.

Because the "advocates" are looking at the person who has to make the decision and trying to help them make the best one for them.

There are consequences for either way that decision goes.  Sadly some chose to end the pregnancy.  But shaming them, or making it illegal will not change that.

[Brownshoe]

(08-10-2015, 09:37 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: That's how I support this. I can't justify saying that a fetus both has rights and has the right to someone else's body, so I support removing restrictions on how much control the government has other a person's body. 

When do you think human life starts?

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-10-2015, 09:37 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: That's how I support this. I can't justify saying that a fetus both has rights and has the right to someone else's body, so I support removing restrictions on how much control the government has other a person's body. 

Yeah, the libertarian in me sees how you can come to that conclusion and agrees...but ultimately I still believe that we're talking about a life here, and don't see how anyone's choice can outweigh the right to live. 

At the end of the day, it is extremely difficult to get pregnant unless you either want to or make no effort to prevent it. 

There are a plethora of low-cost birth control options out there.  Abortion should not be a form of birth control.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-10-2015, 09:46 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Yeah, the libertarian in me sees how you can come to that conclusion and agrees...but ultimately I still believe that we're talking about a life here, and don't see how anyone's choice can outweigh the right to live. 

At the end of the day, it is extremely difficult to get pregnant unless you either want to or make no effort to prevent it. 

There are a plethora of low-cost birth control options out there.  Abortion should not be a form of birth control.  

The number of people who use abortion as birth control is statistically insignificant.  It's like saying you want to outlaw chrisitianty because of the Westboro baptists.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-10-2015, 09:51 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The number of people who use abortion as birth control is statistically insignificant.  It's like saying you want to outlaw chrisitianty because of the Westboro baptists.

Link?

So who exactly is killing a million babies a year?

[GMDino]

(08-10-2015, 09:53 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Link?

So who exactly is killing a million babies a year?

People who didn't want to get pregnant.  Who used the proper methods but got pregnant anyway.  People who are agonizing over the decision to not bring another life into the world that they can't take care of.

[BmorePat87]

(08-10-2015, 09:45 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: When do you think human life starts?

No later than birth.

[BmorePat87]

(08-10-2015, 09:46 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Yeah, the libertarian in me sees how you can come to that conclusion and agrees...but ultimately I still believe that we're talking about a life here, and don't see how anyone's choice can outweigh the right to live. 

At the end of the day, it is extremely difficult to get pregnant unless you either want to or make no effort to prevent it. 

There are a plethora of low-cost birth control options out there.  Abortion should not be a form of birth control.  

I don't know anyone who is ok with unprotected sex because they can always get an abortion.

The toll it takes on a woman isn't something people take lightly. You're acting like people do this flippantly.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-10-2015, 01:47 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I can't imagine this choice.   And with the gravity of the choice I can't imagine anyone choosing abortion.   But I know it happens often.    Girl I dated had this choice and she choose abortion and she says she has flashbacks all the time.   She can't shake it

Like I said in a previous post, I dated a girl who had given up a child for adoption because of getting pregnant at a young age and she had tremendous guilt over it.   Also like I said, it's not our decision to make for them either.  No matter what decision they make, it will have consequences.

You're always talking about the government intruding into our live too much.  Except for this?

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-10-2015, 04:12 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I would like to try no abortions unless health of mother.   But make the morning after pill very easy to get and very low cost.    

I would like to see how that worked out.   It covers anyone  who might have had a birth control accident the night before.   Covers rapes.  

I believe that would be a reasonable compromise.

I was thinking about this thread yesterday while I getting a birthday card for my son (I know that sounds ****** up, but true story...lol)  Anywho, I picked up some eye drops as well, and while I was over there something caught my eye (no pun intended).  It was an aisle that said "family planning", which struck me as odd, because it was an aisle full of contraceptives, and thought shouldn't it be called "family prevention"? 

Never mind all that though, I just thought it was funny.  However I did notice though that you could purchase "plan B" for $49.99 right their on the shelf.  Now I don't know if people are aware of this or not, but I do agree with you that this is a better option than abortion.  That being said, I still am pro-choice, but I think we can all agree the earlier in the pregnancy the better.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-10-2015, 07:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: My first adult relationship was messed up on many regards. The woman was 4 or 5 years older than me and she had some serious issues going on that at the age of 20 I was not prepared to deal with. Anyway, she had an abortion about 3 or 4 years prior because her family did not much approve of the child out of wedlock. Yeah, I see the issues with their logic, don't worry. Especially as her mother's side was Catholic. Anyway, the problem really came to a head because her stepmother had become pregnant about the same time, and she was living down here with her father at the time for grad school. She had to be around this child that was the same age as her's would have been, that she had to end.

On top of all of that, she found out (while her and I were dating) that because of one of her genetic conditions, that was a miracle pregnancy. It was a 1 in a billion shot and was not likely to ever happen again. Needless to say, the downward emotional spiral was huge. She eventually found help by moving to be with her mother and getting some therapy and what not. As far as I know, and this has been almost tn years ago now, she has been doing much better.

Thanks for sharing.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-10-2015, 01:09 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I was thinking about this thread yesterday while I getting a birthday card for my son (I know that sounds ***** up, but true story...lol)  Anywho, I picked up some eye drops as well, and while I was over there something caught my eye (no pun intended).  It was an aisle that said "family planning", which struck me as odd, because it was an aisle full of contraceptives, and thought shouldn't it be called "family prevention"? 

Never mind all that though, I just thought it was funny.  However I did notice though that you could purchase "plan B" for $49.99 right their on the shelf.  Now I don't know if people are aware of this or not, but I do agree with you that this is a better option than abortion.  That being said, I still am pro-choice, but I think we can all agree the earlier in the pregnancy the better.

Agreed.

As for my proposal earlier it would be to have around the 9 dollar price point.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-10-2015, 12:49 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Like I said in a previous post, I dated a girl who had given up a child for adoption because of getting pregnant at a young age and she had tremendous guilt over it.   Also like I said, it's not our decision to make for them either.  No matter what decision they make, it will have consequences.

You're always talking about the government intruding into our live too much.  Except for this?

Our individual rights stop when it kills another. Because we have to respect their rights as well.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-10-2015, 04:24 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Our individual rights stop when it kills another.   Because we have to respect their rights as well.

Again though it would depend of course on when you consider it to be life or just cells with potential for life.  We are probably going to just have to agree to disagree on that one.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-10-2015, 04:52 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Again though it would depend of course on when you consider it to be life or just cells with potential for life.  We are probably going to just have to agree to disagree on that one.

That's fine. I just believe it's a life . When my wife tells me she is pregnant. That's my baby. I don't think of it as my clump of cells. And it's hard for me to think any parent would disagree.

We can agree to disagree.

[Beaker]

(08-10-2015, 09:46 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I still believe that we're talking about a life here, and don't see how anyone's choice can outweigh the right to live. 

When we choose to remove someone from life support we make a choice that denies their right to live. When we execute criminals we make a choice that denies their right to live. If you believe life outweighs all, fine. But you can't then say some life has more right to live than other life.

[Westwood Bengal]

I freaking love seeing the upswing in abortion talk across the reds spectrum. And you know it will be followed by idiots talking about rape, but not the type that really needs addressing.

And they will hang themselves as they do it.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-10-2015, 09:59 AM)GMDino Wrote: People who didn't want to get pregnant.  Who used the proper methods but got pregnant anyway.  People who are agonizing over the decision to not bring another life into the world that they can't take care of.

So in other words, people that are using it as a form of birth control.