Russia and our election

[ballsofsteel]

Good morning. 17 of our intelligence agencies reported that Russia interfered in our elections. This is a fact that even the right doesn't deny now.
Correct me if I'm mistaken.
By "interfering" , the Russians hacked and released emails of Hillary Clinton's and her staff saying negative and inflammatory things about different people. They also put out thousands of FAKE news stories on facebook and various websites, claiming Clinton or people associated with Clinton did unsavory things. OK so far? This fact.
There is no evidence that Trump or his campaign had anything to do with this. At least at this time.
The Trump mouthpieces insist that all this Russian meddling had no outcome on the elections and the Russians Tampering didn't change any of the votes cast. By "didn't change any of the votes", the Trumpsters keep referring to the fact that the Russians didn't hack into any of the voting machine to physically change any votes in Trump's favor.
So far accurate?
Now your telling me that all that ONE SIDED negative email leaking and derogatory fake news about Clinton didn't change anyone's mind about who they were going to vote for before they walked into that voting booth? I say bullshit. Clinton's poor campaigning had nothing to do with the above.
Minds were changed. You had two bad candidates. There were alot of people on the bubble in the two weeks leading up to Nov. 7. For Right to act like this is no big deal is amazing.

[Benton]

I don't think it had much of an impact.

Clinton wasn't a good opponent. There was a huge chunk that wasn't going to vote for her period. There were people who wouldn't vote for a woman, people who wouldn't vote for a democrat, people who were pretty mislead by the anti-obama propaganda. Anyone dumb enough to vote for a candidate vowing to repeal his lone healthcare source because he thinks nothing is better than something is not going to look too much into email scandals.

[GMDino]

NPR had a story this morning that 25% of people still don't even believe the Russians were involved.

[Vlad]

(07-06-2017, 07:11 AM)ballsofsteel Wrote: Good morning. 17 of our intelligence agencies reported that Russia interfered in our elections. This is a fact that even the right doesn't deny now.
Correct me if I'm mistaken.
By "interfering" , the Russians hacked and released emails of Hillary Clinton's and her staff saying negative and inflammatory things about different people. They also put out thousands of FAKE news stories on facebook and various websites, claiming Clinton or people associated with Clinton did unsavory things. OK so far? This fact.
There is no evidence that Trump or his campaign had anything to do with this. At least at this time.
The Trump mouthpieces insist that all this Russian meddling had no outcome on the elections and the Russians Tampering didn't change any of the votes cast. By "didn't change any of the votes", the Trumpsters keep referring to the fact that the Russians didn't hack into any of the voting machine to physically change any votes in Trump's favor.
So far accurate?
Now your telling me that all that ONE SIDED negative email leaking and derogatory fake news about Clinton didn't change anyone's mind about who they were going to vote for before they walked into that voting booth? I say bullshit. Clinton's poor campaigning had nothing to do with the above.
Minds were changed. You had two bad candidates. There were alot of people on the bubble in the two weeks leading up to Nov. 7. For Right to act like this is no big deal is amazing.

Her blaming the Russians is in there somewhere.



What you need to understand is that leaks are different from fake news.
Leaks are pretty much truth.

The attempt to undermine the Bernie Sanders campaign by the corrupt DNC was real.

James Comey's testifying that Hillary indeed was in violation of her handling of sensitive emails was not fake news.

Hillary is a scheming self serving wench who thought she was entitled to the presidency.

She was rightfully exposed, and only then did people know what they were getting.
With Trump at least you knew what you were getting from the beginning.

[GMDino]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/07/06/trump-eve-putin-meeting-says-nobody-really-knows-russian-hacking/454436001/

Quote:Trump, on eve of Putin meeting, says 'nobody really knows' about Russian hacking


President Trump again cast a skeptical eye on intelligence community assessments that Russia interfered with the 2016 presidential election, saying Thursday while on a visit to Poland that "nobody really knows for sure" what happened.



"Well, I think it was Russia and I think it was other people in other countries who also interfere," he said at a press conference in Warsaw with the president of Poland. "I wont be specific, but I think a lot of people interfere."


Trump has made such pronouncements to varying degrees before. But this one comes on the eve of his first face-to-face meeting Friday with Russian President Vladimir Putin at a Group of 20 summit in Hamburg, Germany. Intelligence agencies say Putin personally directed an effort to boost Trump's candidacy through the theft of emails belonging to the Democratic National Committee and party leaders and release to websites such as WikiLeaks. 


And the remarks follow a Washington Post report last month detailing former President Obama's administration's stumbling attempts to deal with Russian meddling during last year's campaign. The CIA gave Obama an urgent report three months before the election. "That's a lot of time. He did nothing about it," Trump said.


"They say he choked. I don’t think he choked," Trump added. "I think what happened is he thought Hillary Clinton was going to win the election, and he chose not to do anything about it. If he thought I was going to win, he would have done something about it."


Trump also compared the intelligence about Russian interference with the faulty assessment that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction in 2002, which provided President Bush with a justification to go to war.


"Guess what, they were wrong, and that led to one big mess," he said.


Trump answered questions with Polish President Andrzej Duda at Warsaw's Royal Castle, his first stop on a two-city European tour in which he will meet central European leaders and attend the summit in Hamburg. It was his first news conference in almost a month — and the first time he answered questions on foreign soil.




The press event also came as Trump faces several pressing questions on foreign policy, including his response to North Korea's latest test of a multi-stage missile capable of reaching U.S. territory and a German-driven agenda at the G-20 summit that's opposed to Trump's policies on trade, immigration and climate change.



The president used the news conference to call on nations to confront North Korea’s "very, very bad behavior" and vowed consequences for the missile launch. In a speech later Thursday in Warsaw, Trump is expected to say that Western civilization needs to be defended from terrorism and extremism, according to excerpts from the address.

[Dill]

(07-06-2017, 09:07 AM)Vlad Wrote: What you need to understand is that leaks are different from fake news.
Leaks are pretty much truth.
The attempt to undermine the Bernie Sanders campaign by the corrupt DNC was real.
James Comey's testifying that Hillary indeed was in violation of her handling of sensitive emails was not fake news.
Hillary is a scheming self serving wench who thought she was entitled to the presidency.
She was rightfully exposed, and only then did people know what they were getting.
With Trump at least you knew what you were getting from the beginning.

Yes, a vindictive man child who knows nothing about how the government works or how to govern.

"Self-serving" and "scheming" don't bother you at all if you voted for Trump, who is setting presidential records for profiting while in office.

And Trump does not agree that "leaks are pretty much truth"--not when they are coming from his own White House.
No one who calls the entire MSM "fake news" is interested in "truth."

When it comes to Hillary, Trumpsters have no problem seeing her behavior as a source of her problems, even when reported by "anonymous sources." Suddenly "truth" and "facts" are everywhere. But its fake news when the MSM reports what Donald publicly says and does.

[Dill]

(07-06-2017, 07:11 AM)ballsofsteel Wrote:
Now your telling me that all that ONE SIDED negative email leaking and derogatory fake news about Clinton didn't change anyone's mind about who they were going to vote for before they walked into that voting booth? I say bullshit. Clinton's poor campaigning had nothing to do with the above.
Minds were changed. You had two bad candidates. There were alot of people on the bubble in the two weeks leading up to Nov. 7. For Right to act like this is no big deal is amazing.

Two quick points:

1. There is more to the Russian interference: 1) there was a decided effort to hack into state elections, and a company providing software for state elections was hacked.https://www.vox.com/world/2017/6/13/15791744/russia-election-39-states-hack-putin-trump-sessions. 2) One recent strand of investigation follows the trail of long time Clinton foe Peter Smith (now deceased) who was apparently seeking hacked emails to funnel to General Flynn. https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-operative-sought-clinton-emails-from-hackers-implied-a-connection-to-flynn-1498770851

2. I agree that the Russian interference had a great deal of influence on the election (though Comey's actions might have had more).  The Trump campaign and Fox evidently thought the hacked emails had an effect on the election because they campaigned on them. Do you campaign on an issue that you think won't make a difference?  It is only after the election, to shore up Trump's legitimacy, do we now get the counter narrative that it had no effect.

Hillary was the front runner in fall of 2015, but the fallout from the Benghazi investigation plus the Russian interference gave Trump the victory.  Now we have an incompetent reality show star in office.

This one is really on the American voters, both those who voted for Trump and those who decided not to vote at all.

[StLucieBengal]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/18162/another-day-another-russia-retraction-—-time-john-nolte

Not 17 agencies..... just 4.

Quote:Another Day, Another Russia Retraction — This Time From Maggie Haberman At NYT

June 30, 2017
Y'all remember Maggie Haberman, right? Y'all remember the Maggie Haberman who allowed Hillary Clinton to literally tie her up with a rope, correct? Y'all remember the Maggie Haberman who was caught red-handed via WikiLeaks as Hillary's secret operative at the New York Times, right? Y'all remember the Maggie Haberman who attacked everyday people as a means to protect her Precious Barry, right? Well, now you are gunna remember Maggie Haberman as a Platinum Member of the Russian Retraction Society.

In yet another one of her overlong, leftwing diatrabes disguised as journalism, The Worst Journalist In The World attacks-attacks-attacks Trump, and does so sounding much more like a jilted girlfriend than anything resembling a reporter. There is just one problem... Because Haberman is nothing close to a journalist, she fell for one of those fake news, Internet canards about "17 WHOLE intelligence agencies believing Russia interfered with the American presidential election!"

Imagine that, 17; 17 intelligence agencies! A whole 17!

Except, nope. That number is not only untrue, it is not even close to true.


Wanna know what the true number is?

Four.

Yep, 4.

This is common knowledge outside the provincial media bubble. Those of us in the real world have been laughing for months at this media lie.

And with that lie, now that the New York Times has finally corrected the record, Haberman officially joins the Russian Retraction Society:

A White House Memo article on Monday about President Trump’s deflections and denials about Russia referred incorrectly to the source of an intelligence assessment that said Russia orchestrated hacking attacks during last year’s presidential election. The assessment was made by four intelligence agencies — the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the National Security Agency. The assessment was not approved by all 17 organizations in the American intelligence community.

At this clip, by Christmas, the media's entire Russia hoax will be retracted.

[*michaelsean*]

Real journalism just keeps dying. She obviously did nothing to corroborate this. She just assumed it was true, and really wanted it to be true. The stupid thing is that the 4 that signed off on it are a pretty big 4 and would have made it no less compelling.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-06-2017, 07:11 AM)ballsofsteel Wrote: Good morning. 17 of our intelligence agencies reported that Russia interfered in our elections. This is a fact that even the right doesn't deny now.
Correct me if I'm mistaken.
By "interfering" , the Russians hacked and released emails of Hillary Clinton's and her staff saying negative and inflammatory things about different people. They also put out thousands of FAKE news stories on facebook and various websites, claiming Clinton or people associated with Clinton did unsavory things. OK so far? This fact.
There is no evidence that Trump or his campaign had anything to do with this. At least at this time.
The Trump mouthpieces insist that all this Russian meddling had no outcome on the elections and the Russians Tampering didn't change any of the votes cast. By "didn't change any of the votes", the Trumpsters keep referring to the fact that the Russians didn't hack into any of the voting machine to physically change any votes in Trump's favor.
So far accurate?
Now your telling me that all that ONE SIDED negative email leaking and derogatory fake news about Clinton didn't change anyone's mind about who they were going to vote for before they walked into that voting booth? I say bullshit. Clinton's poor campaigning had nothing to do with the above.
Minds were changed. You had two bad candidates. There were alot of people on the bubble in the two weeks leading up to Nov. 7. For Right to act like this is no big deal is amazing.

Which 17? (i unbolded the part I am referring to.)

[GMDino]

(07-06-2017, 12:18 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Real journalism just keeps dying.  She obviously did nothing to corroborate this.  She just assumed it was true, and really wanted it to be true.  The stupid thing is that the 4 that signed off on it are a pretty big 4 and would have made it no less compelling.

Actually it had been verified that all 17 contributed but not all 17 signed off on it.

But hey...Clinton.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-06-2017, 12:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: Actually it had been verified that all 17 contributed but not all 17 signed off on it.

But hey...Clinton.

Correct and ?

[Belsnickel]

Isn't Haberman the only one at NYT that Trump likes? Or am I thinking of someone else?

[StLucieBengal]

(07-06-2017, 02:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Isn't Haberman the only one at NYT that Trump likes? Or am I thinking of someone else?

She was shown to be one of the Clinton sympathizers at the NYT. Through the Wikileaks emails.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-06-2017, 12:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: Actually it had been verified that all 17 contributed but not all 17 signed off on it.

But hey...Clinton.

There's a few of the 17 that I'd be asking why they were involved.  

[GMDino]

(07-06-2017, 03:46 PM)michaelsean Wrote: There's a few of the 17 that I'd be asking why they were involved.  

Which?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-17-intelligence-agencies-20170112-story.html

And why?

[*michaelsean*]

I didn't need no link. I'm not some crazy out there yelling 17 AGENCIES!!!!!!! without knowing who they are.

DEA. Dept of Energy. Geo-Spatial Intelligence. Air Force Intelligence. Marine Corp Intelligence. Dept of Treasury Intelligence. NRO

[GMDino]

(07-06-2017, 03:54 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I didn't need no link.  I'm not some crazy out there yelling 17 AGENCIES!!!!!!! without knowing who they are.

DEA. Dept of Energy.  Geo-Spatial Intelligence.  Air Force Intelligence.  Marine Corp Intelligence. Dept of Treasury Intelligence.  NRO

DEA: I'm thinking it had to be just to get their opinion of the info that had been gathered to that point.

Geo-Spatial: Was that to figure the areas the data was coming from?

AF Intelligence: Same as above?

Marine Corp: From the link: " intercept and translate radio and electronic signals, analyze images collected from sensors and carry out counterintelligence."


Dept of Treasury: Again, from the link: "Today the Office of Intelligence and Analysis sits within the Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, which works to prevent sanctioned countries, money launderers, terrorists, drug kingpins and purveyors of weapons of mass destruction from parking or moving their money through the U.S. financial system."



NRO: Again from the link: "The office designs, builds and operates the nation’s reconnaissance satellites, providing the Pentagon, CIA and others precision navigation, early warning of missile launches and near real-time imagery to support anti-terrorism activities."



So maybe it was a group effort.  Maybe it was to make sure what they had was what they had?  I'd say the more people involved without some giant disagreement just adds to the certainty.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-06-2017, 04:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: DEA: I'm thinking it had to be just to get their opinion of the info that had been gathered to that point.

Geo-Spatial: Was that to figure the areas the data was coming from?

AF Intelligence: Same as above?

Marine Corp: From the link: " intercept and translate radio and electronic signals, analyze images collected from sensors and carry out counterintelligence."


Dept of Treasury: Again, from the link: "Today the Office of Intelligence and Analysis sits within the Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, which works to prevent sanctioned countries, money launderers, terrorists, drug kingpins and purveyors of weapons of mass destruction from parking or moving their money through the U.S. financial system."



NRO: Again from the link: "The office designs, builds and operates the nation’s reconnaissance satellites, providing the Pentagon, CIA and others precision navigation, early warning of missile launches and near real-time imagery to support anti-terrorism activities."



So maybe it was a group effort.  Maybe it was to make sure what they had was what they had?  I'd say the more people involved without some giant disagreement just adds to the certainty.

I'm happy with the big 3 or 4 saying something.  I'm thinking several of those had little or nothing to do with it which is fine.  I'm not more impressed because the Coast Guard agrees.

[GMDino]

(07-06-2017, 04:15 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm happy with the big 3 or 4 saying something.  I'm thinking several of those had little or nothing to do with it which is fine.  I'm not more impressed because the Coast Guard agrees.

I wonder if that is why the POTUS doesn't believe it?