You have to wonder how much public sentiment is against this war in Russia. Obviously, protesting there carries real risk, so only the very brave and determined are going to engage in it. But you have to think that public sentiment is skewed heavily against this, especially with it now being obvious the invasion isn't going nearly as well as Putin hoped. There's a YouTube channel I have followed for some time called Life of Boris. It's generally a good natured, and humorous, look at Russian culture, and he recently uploaded a quick video about how ashamed he is of his country and his past efforts to make people aware of their culture. I know he's very popular (he has over 3 million subscribers) so you have to think his being willing to state this so openly is indicative of a wider issue for Putin.
For those that care to watch, here's the video in question;
Russian people has to get their man down. We have nothing against their people, it's just that they are doomed by an authocratic lunatic who knows he is dying and wants to renew with a past that is done.
We have expelled all his people from Europe. This is not going to end until he's done.
EU never have been so united. Germans are rebuilding an army. Sweden are rebuilding an army. For the 1st time, EU as an organization have bought weapons for Ukraine. This is almost a miracle.
And he launches some nukes then so be it. I guess it was meant to happen sooner or later. We are not afraid of that guy. Europe is at war and we're not that bad at this.
Russia на хуй.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
(02-27-2022, 07:10 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Russian people has to get their man down. We have nothing against their people, it's just that they are doomed by an authocratic lunatic who knows he is dying and wants to renew with a past that is done.
We have expelled all his people from Europe. This is not going to end until he's done.
EU never have been so united. Germans are rebuilding an army. Sweden are rebuilding an army. For the 1st time, EU as an organization have bought weapons for Ukraine. This is almost a miracle.
And he launches some nukes then so be it. I guess it was meant to happen sooner or later. We are not afraid of that guy. Europe is at war and we're not that bad at this.
Russia на хуй.
Putin has definitely stepped on his d*** on this one.
(02-27-2022, 11:59 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Putin is certainly not scared of a Trump. At least not in the "I'm in a 18 to 22 ft square ring with Mike Tyson" sense. Maybe in the "I'm a woman locked in a room with nothing but Charlie Sheen and cocaine" sense. But simply having Trump in the White House was enough of a benefit. Deteriorating US relations with Ukraine, US actively undermining NATO allies, US actively lobbying for Russia to get their seat at the G8 back, US practically accepting Crimea staying with Russia, the list goes on.
Why would Putin bite the hand that was feeding him? It's impossible to tell what those 62% of people are thinking, but that would be my reasoning. This is also assuming that Putin even gave a shit about who the US head of state was.
Former CIA director John Brennan said something like the bolded on a Sunday news show this morning.
I think that whoever was president likely played a minor role in Putin's decision to invade.
Obama hit Russia with sanctions for Crimea, and Trump/Flynn wanted to roll them back.
Putin surely expected Biden would do at least what Obama did, while he could reasonably speculate Trump would have to be forced by Congress and his own Cabinet to do what Biden and Obama did willingly. When Biden was elected a "window was closing" perhaps. (to borrow a phrase from Brennan).
If Putin did perceive Biden as "weak" then he miscalculated, as most of the world and "the left" in the US rallies behind Biden and Ukraine.
To most who have been following Putin's writings and speeches over the last 14 years, there is evidence of a growing irrationality, which especially spills out in his talk of Ukraine not being a real country and lead by a Nazi.
The former US Ambassador, McFaul, has spoken of his increasing isolation from people and weeding out of advisors willing to speak truth to power. Reminiscent of Saddam Hussein in 1990.
(02-27-2022, 07:10 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: EU never have been so united. Germans are rebuilding an army. Sweden are rebuilding an army. For the 1st time, EU as an organization have bought weapons for Ukraine. This is almost a miracle.
And he launches some nukes then so be it. I guess it was meant to happen sooner or later. We are not afraid of that guy. Europe is at war and we're not that bad at this.
Russia на хуй.
So much for Putin's 3-dimensional chess.
This invasion might lead Sweden and Finland to apply for NATO membership as well.
(02-27-2022, 08:09 PM)Dill Wrote: So much for Putin's 3-dimensional chess.
This invasion might lead Sweden and Finland to apply for NATO membership as well.
My understanding is that they have open invitations, they need only accept and it's a done deal. If this conflict goes Ukraine's way I can see them being fast tracked as well.
(02-27-2022, 07:50 PM)Dill Wrote: Former CIA director John Brennan said something like the bolded on a Sunday news show this morning.
I think that whoever was president likely played a minor role in Putin's decision to invade.
Obama hit Russia with sanctions for Crimea, and Trump/Flynn wanted to roll them back.
Putin surely expected Biden would do at least what Obama did, while he could reasonably speculate Trump would have to be forced by Congress and his own Cabinet to do what Biden and Obama did willingly. When Biden was elected a "window was closing" perhaps. (to borrow a phrase from Brennan).
If Putin did perceive Biden as "weak" then he miscalculated, as most of the world and "the left" in the US rallies behind Biden and Ukraine.
To most who have been following Putin's writings and speeches over the last 14 years, there is evidence of a growing irrationality, which especially spills out in his talk of Ukraine not being a real country and lead by a Nazi.
The former US Ambassador, McFaul, has spoken of his increasing isolation from people and weeding out of advisors willing to speak truth to power. Reminiscent of Saddam Hussein in 1990.
If Putin miscalculated anything I think it is first and foremost the Ukrainian resistance. In second place Europe's coming together. Also very muted support from his allies (read: China). If China doesn't save Russia's ass economically, Russia is going to be a gigantic version of North Korea. After all that any perceptions on the US. I get we're on a US message board, but all this talk about Biden/Trump and Russia is typical American egocentricity at its best (worst?) In the grand scheme of things, the US is still very much recovering to our former standing as a true global leader, a standing which has very much been in flux since our own failed imperialistic shenanigans of the early 21st century.
(02-25-2022, 03:31 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Me either man. I'm 58 and I stayed up all night and watched the news. Tbh, I'm pretty damn nervous over this crap. They have 6000 nukes now. That's more than all of NATO has...combined. And Russia supposedly has that supersonic technology making their shit faster, too.
Don’t worry about it. Doesn’t matter if they have 6000 or 1000. The results would be the same. If it happens, there’s nothing you or I can do but try to get a quicky in once notified and, we’ll, for me, try to get right with the lord. Other than that, nothing else I can do. But I won’t fear it.
(02-28-2022, 03:29 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: I expect we will see a massive Russian push to take Kiev in the next 24 hours.
Reports coming out are that Russians are allowing civilians to escape through a corridor as they amass a significant force to take the city.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
A couple things that I'm not sure if they have been talked about in this thread, but if they have they are a ways back and I think bringing them up in the context of some of the recent posts is important.
First, most of the Russian personnel don't want to be there and didn't know they would be. Captured Russians are all telling the same story: they were under the impression they were taking part in exercises, then the next thing they knew they were ordered across the border. It really is an interesting situation.
Second, and this one is more important, I think, is what the propaganda has been around this in Russia. Putin has been sending the message that he is freeing the Ukrainian people from neo-Nazis. Not just the Donbas region, but Ukraine as a whole. He was selling this image that the Ukrainian people would welcome him with open arms as a liberating force. Even with the clamped down media in Russia the reality of the situation has gotten through. The Russians see the resistance which means they know the propaganda was lies. The big question on my mind and the mind of many is whether Putin actually believed the lies he was peddling. The current situation for the Russian forces is a logistical nightmare. Vehicles are running out of fuel. They are having to loot for food. It's pretty clear that they did not expect to face this much resistance which makes me wonder whether their leadership was sold on this as well.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
I've seen conflicting reports on that. One is what you see in the tweet. The other was a different shot of the tractor where a Russian soldier had painted the "Z" on the front and had stolen the tractor to tow their vehicle.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(02-27-2022, 07:27 PM)Dill Wrote: Mason, why should a complicated crisis created by the Russian invasion of Ukraine
"boil down" to such an oversimplification?
What point/lesson could one draw from that oversimplification without "speculation"?
Dill, I'm gonna try to refrain from any further comparisons between the two presidents for now on the subject of Ukraine. We all know how it played out so no need to elaborate further at the moment. I support our president in this effort & pray he makes wise decisions. For our sake, the brave citizens of Ukraine & the entire civilized world.
(02-28-2022, 08:29 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: A couple things that I'm not sure if they have been talked about in this thread, but if they have they are a ways back and I think bringing them up in the context of some of the recent posts is important.
First, most of the Russian personnel don't want to be there and didn't know they would be. Captured Russians are all telling the same story: they were under the impression they were taking part in exercises, then the next thing they knew they were ordered across the border. It really is an interesting situation.
Second, and this one is more important, I think, is what the propaganda has been around this in Russia. Putin has been sending the message that he is freeing the Ukrainian people from neo-Nazis. Not just the Donbas region, but Ukraine as a whole. He was selling this image that the Ukrainian people would welcome him with open arms as a liberating force. Even with the clamped down media in Russia the reality of the situation has gotten through. The Russians see the resistance which means they know the propaganda was lies. The big question on my mind and the mind of many is whether Putin actually believed the lies he was peddling. The current situation for the Russian forces is a logistical nightmare. Vehicles are running out of fuel. They are having to loot for food. It's pretty clear that they did not expect to face this much resistance which makes me wonder whether their leadership was sold on this as well.
Putin dishes the lies. But he most certainly does not believe them.
(02-28-2022, 08:32 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I've seen conflicting reports on that. One is what you see in the tweet. The other was a different shot of the tractor where a Russian soldier had painted the "Z" on the front and had stolen the tractor to tow their vehicle.
The winter was far warmer and wetter than they expected. It appears Putin's plan was to roll his mechanized troops straight down the highways and into the cities before any real defenses could solidify. It they met any resistance, units could peel off into the fields and flank the position. Except, now the farmers' fields are 3' deep mud baths and low-profile, light modern armor vehicles just don't handle that as well as tractors. Soldiers are better off dismounting in 3' water rather than 3' of mud.
So, his mechanized columns are mostly stuck in stalled convoys on the main roads. The Ukrainians can't move forward from their positions to take advantage of the potential turkey shoot since the Russians have almost complete air superiority and available air support. So, instead, they are holing up in the cities creating "kill zones" for the coming assaults, which will now inevitably be infantry going house-to-house, block-by-block. And that is going to be ugly, costly and time-consuming.
I really believe that Putin hoped this would all be wrapped up by this point. The political and economic pressures are mounting. This is why he agreed to meet Zelensky today and has been waving the nuclear threat stick around at him. Putin may very well drop a tactical nuke in the Ukraine, if he feels he is already a big enough pariah. Not sure how the West would respond to that.
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