SC rules Trump and all Presidents have absolute immunity

[Luvnit2]

This was an expected verdict from the SC.

This is the justice system we have, many layers to protect all citizens.

It will be interesting to see if Jack Smith and the other cases proceed.

There is absolute immunity in official acts as the POTUS.

[*pally*]

and no immunity for unofficial acts

[Luvnit2]

(07-01-2024, 11:45 AM)pally Wrote: and no immunity for unofficial acts

Define an unofficial act.

Trump was still President on Jan. 6 if that is what you are referring to as a possible unofficial act. It will hard for any judge to say a sitting President lost his immunity before he left office in. my humble opinion.

Also keep in mind the SC also ruled the DOJ overstepped their authority indicting voters for obstruction on Jan. 6.

[SunsetBengal]

Where all the ledge jumpers?

[HarleyDog]

(07-01-2024, 12:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Where all the ledge jumpers?

They're coming.

[*pally*]

(07-01-2024, 11:49 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Define an unofficial act.

Trump was still President on Jan. 6 if that is what you are referring to as a possible unofficial act. It will hard for any judge to say a sitting President lost his immunity before he left office in. my humble opinion.

Also keep in mind the SC also ruled the DOJ overstepped their authority indicting voters for obstruction on Jan. 6.

so you you honestly believe that f the President orders the murder of his political opponent, that would be an official act?

[SunsetBengal]

(07-01-2024, 12:12 PM)pally Wrote: so you you honestly believe that f the President orders the murder of his political opponent, that would be an official act?

To be fair, the ruling is for limited immunity.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-01-2024, 12:08 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: They're coming.

Likely just taking a moment to get their talking points in order, so that they can condemn and refute this decision in lock step parrot fashion. 

[*pally*]

(07-01-2024, 12:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To be fair, the ruling is for limited immunity.

that's what I pointed out, but Luvnit argued that anything a President does while in office is official

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-01-2024, 12:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Where all the ledge jumpers?

We might need more bungee cords

[Luvnit2]

(07-01-2024, 12:12 PM)pally Wrote: so you you honestly believe that f the President orders the murder of his political opponent, that would be an official act?

I understand you agree with the current POTUS attempting to jail a political opponent. In your eyes, that is OK.

When did Trump or any POTUS order the murder of their political opponent? Why is relevant to the persecution of Trump by the DOJ and Garland? 

We will see how the cases play out; will the NY conviction hold up on appeal? Will the DOJ and Jack Smith be able to get the DC and the Florida case to trial prior to the election? Will the Georgia case ever get to trail?

It has been a very rough week for Biden and the DNC.

[HarleyDog]

(07-01-2024, 12:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I understand you agree with the current POTUS attempting to jail a political opponent. In your eyes, that is OK.

I honestly don't ever recall her saying that. 

[*pally*]

(07-01-2024, 12:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I understand you agree with the current POTUS attempting to jail a political opponent. In your eyes, that is OK.

When did Trump or any POTUS order the murder of their political opponent? Why is relevant to the persecution of Trump by the DOJ and Garland? 

We will see how the cases play out; will the NY conviction hold up on appeal? Will the DOJ and Jack Smith be able to get the DC and the Florida case to trial prior to the election? Will the Georgia case ever get to trail?

It has been a very rough week for Biden and the DNC.

Florida won't be immune, he is being charged for actions post-presidency.

I asked YOU about unlimited immunity if anything a president does during his presidency is official.  

My opinion...murder never ever falls under official acts but neither does trying to orchestrate a coup among many other offenses I believe would fall outside  

[Luvnit2]

(07-01-2024, 01:09 PM)pally Wrote: Florida won't be immune, he is being charged for actions post-presidency.

I asked YOU about unlimited immunity if anything a president does during his presidency is official.  

My opinion...murder never ever falls under official acts but neither does trying to orchestrate a coup among many other offenses I believe would fall outside  

I am not a lawyer, but experts are saying no way the DC or Florida case are litigated prior to the election.

I guess I miss understood you were asking a question about murder. Obama did order a murder on a US citizen in another country, no trial just killed him. Is Obama immune?

As far as Trump, he has not killed anyone, liberals like to play the well now Trump may kill people, may put people in jail and so on. All BS and used as a scare tactic. The one thing Trump did not do was reopen the HRC case and go after her. He could have, but he did not. So, why would he do it now? It would destroy the Republican party if he did it, just as it is destroying Democracy what Biden's DOJ and also Democratic cities are going after Trump (political opponent).

The hail Mary to put Trump in jail is failing miserably, it pumps up his base, but united Independents and the GOP. Biden is running out of time to convince voters in the swing states + Virginia, Minn. and NJ to vote for him in November.

[JustWinBaby]

Seems like a very reasonable ruling, which won't stop partisans from claiming something it isn't.

"Presumed immunity", which is a key distinction from blanket or absolute immunity, simply sets a high bar for going after a POTUS for official acts. Ordering the assassination of a political rival isn't going to be immune, because committing crimes is not a power delegated to the POTUS. By definition, an illegal act can't be an official act, so enough with that BS. Where this comes into play is bombing a suspected terrorist is immune from prosecution, but shooting Biden on 5th Ave would not be.

And "official acts" also has specific meaning. This seems to exclude Trump's actions as a candidate. No impact on the GA or NY cases, nor on the documents case. It may impact part of the Jan. 6 case, but IMO that was always impeachable for dereliction of duty, but not criminal. And you can't prosecute someone for exercising their free speech, ESPECIALLY when a political candidate. But the whole "insurrection" thing was always LOL BS, and the SCOTUS has pretty much slammed that door shut with another ruling that would clearly identify those events for what most reasonable people saw with their own eyes - a riot, not a rebellion.

[*pally*]

(07-01-2024, 02:21 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Seems like a very reasonable ruling, which won't stop partisans from claiming something it isn't.

"Presumed immunity", which is a key distinction from blanket or absolute immunity, simply sets a high bar for going after a POTUS for official acts.  Ordering the assassination of a political rival isn't going to be immune, because committing crimes is not a power delegated to the POTUS.  By definition, an illegal act can't be an official act, so enough with that BS.  Where this comes into play is bombing a suspected terrorist is immune from prosecution, but shooting Biden on 5th Ave would not be.

And "official acts" also has specific meaning.  This seems to exclude Trump's actions as a candidate.  No impact on the GA or NY cases, nor on the documents case.  It may impact part of the Jan. 6 case, but IMO that was always impeachable for dereliction of duty, but not criminal.  And you can't prosecute someone for exercising their free speech, ESPECIALLY when a political candidate.  But the whole "insurrection" thing was always LOL BS, and the SCOTUS has pretty much slammed that door shut with another ruling that would clearly identify those events for what most reasonable people saw with their own eyes - a riot, not a rebellion.

The DC charges stem from the fake elector scheme which has nothing to do with free speech

[JustWinBaby]

(07-01-2024, 02:40 PM)pally Wrote: The DC charges stem from the fake elector scheme which has nothing to do with free speech

SOME of those charges stem from the fake elector scheme.  There were definitely elements related to Jan.6 and Trump's free speech, that now are likely not prosecutable.  But, yes, the fake elector aspect should stand.

Again, this is not a victory for either side.  Just a win for common sense and reasonableness.

[*Nately120*]

A mere 86,000 days late, if you ask me.  I for one was sick and tired of seeing so many presidents go to jail.

[BigPapaKain]

(07-01-2024, 11:49 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Define an unofficial act.

Trump was still President on Jan. 6 if that is what you are referring to as a possible unofficial act. It will hard for any judge to say a sitting President lost his immunity before he left office in. my humble opinion.

Also keep in mind the SC also ruled the DOJ overstepped their authority indicting voters for obstruction on Jan. 6.

So you admit he officially ordered a crowd to violently take the Capitol.

That's a healthy first step.

I wonder if Biden should officially round up all Republicans - including their judges - and officially declare them enemies of the state. Officially.

He'd be within his legal rights to do so.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(07-01-2024, 01:34 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am not a lawyer, but experts are saying no way the DC or Florida case are litigated prior to the election.

I guess I miss understood you were asking a question about murder. Obama did order a murder on a US citizen in another country, no trail just killed him. Is Obama immune?

As far as Trump, he has not killed anyone, liberals like to play the well now Trump may kill people, may put people in jail and so on. All BS and used as a scare tactic. The one thing Trump did not do was reopen the HRC case and go after her. He could have, but he did not. So, why would he do it now? It would destroy the Republican party if he did it, just as it is destroying Democracy what Biden's DOJ and also Democratic cities are going after Trump (political opponent).

The hail Mary to put Trump in jail is failing miserably, it pumps up his base, but united Independents and the GOP. Biden is running out of time to convince voters in the swing states + Virginia, Minn. and NJ to vote for him in November.

After that line, I read the rest of your post as the Phil Hartman character "Frozen Caveman Lawyer"...