Salon.com once again promoting pedos.

[BmorePat87]

(05-24-2016, 09:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So by your words: a Trans is being discriminated of because of their Gender, not because of their sex. But a child is not being discriminated against because we shouldn't consider maturity because "protection". 

Lots of talking in circles; we'll just leave it as I cannot comprehend to logic of the liberal.  I'm more of a black and white type; especially when it comes to children. 

No, the legal justification has been that anti trans laws discriminate on the basis on sex, as in it's saying that a trans woman is being discriminated against because their sex is male. 

A 12 year old is not being discriminated against when they are denied adult status for a variety of legally established reasons, some of which were explained. 

The "logic of liberals" is a nice touch. That and "enough about me" seem to be your go-to's when someone calls out your horseshit talking in circles. 

[BmorePat87]

This is where bfine took a short exchange that was simply me telling him that sexuality is innate...

Come on, man. We don't need to run around this much.

[*bfine32*]

(05-24-2016, 10:13 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No, the legal justification has been that anti trans laws discriminate on the basis on sex, as in it's saying that a trans woman is being discriminated against because their sex is male. 

A 12 year old is not being discriminated against when they are denied adult status for a variety of legally established reasons, some of which were explained. 

The "logic of liberals" is a nice touch. That and "enough about me" seem to be your go-to's when someone calls out your horseshit talking in circles. 

Had no idea I was being "called out". So a trans is being discriminated because of their sex if you mandate they do things in agreement with their sex? No one is discriminating a trans because of their sex. They are saying you must abide by your sex  

So we fight the laws that discriminate against the minor that thinks he or she does not identify with the sex on their birth certificate; but we can't fight for them identifying as adults; because of laws? The only thing that was "explained"  is these laws are right and these laws are wrong because age and sex are biological,  but gender and maturity are not.   

"You must act your age, but not your sex."

[*bfine32*]

(05-24-2016, 10:15 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This is where bfine took a short exchange that was simply me telling him that sexuality is innate...

Come on, man. We don't need to run around this much.

Hey, I like you; especially compared to some other libs around here. you usually stick  to the subject.

 You just choose to interpret what I said to exclude maturity. Sotra focused on the biological in the age/maturity and the innate in the sex/gender. i think it is a solid correlation; yet you do not.  no running around.

[BmorePat87]

(05-24-2016, 10:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Had no idea I was being "called out". So a trans is being discriminated because of their sex if you mandate they do things in agreement with their sex? No one is discriminating a trans because of their sex. They are saying you must abide by your sex  

So we fight the laws that discriminate against the minor that thinks he or she does not identify with the sex on their birth certificate; but we can't fight for them identifying as adults; because of laws? The only thing that was "explained"  is these laws are right and these laws are wrong because age and sex are biological,  but gender and maturity are not.   

"You must act your age, but not your sex."

Can you use sex and gender correctly? I'm not going to address arguments I'm not making.

[BmorePat87]

(05-24-2016, 10:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hey, I like you; especially compared to some other libs around here. you usually stick  to the subject.

 You just choose to interpret what I said to exclude maturity. Sotra focused on the biological in the age/maturity and the innate in the sex/gender. i think it is a solid correlation; yet you do not.  no running around.

You really don't get it, do you?

I responded to a random comment of yours about giving people the right to choose their sexuality. I explained that sexuality was innate. You then asked about children identifying as promiscuous and as adults... I asked what either had to do with my post and you responded by asking why we let children change their sex but not their age...

I'm asking why you're jumping around so much. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-24-2016, 11:29 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Can you use sex and gender correctly? 

Sure I can. I'm just not sure that those that suggest transgenders are being discriminated because of their sex can.  

[BigPapaKain]

(05-24-2016, 09:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Lots of talking in circles; we'll just leave it as I cannot comprehend to logic of the liberal.  I'm more of a black and white type; especially when it comes to children. 

Damn shame because the world is not nor has it ever been black and white. I mean except back during Jim Crow - then I guess bathrooms were black and white.

So that must mean you hate black people. HYPERBOLE!!

[Belsnickel]

(05-25-2016, 12:30 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure I can. I'm just not sure that those that suggest transgenders are being discriminated because of their sex can.  

When discrimination occurs against a trans person it occurs because their sex and gender do not match, since that is what being trans is. So discrimination against someone that is trans is considered to be based not just on gender, but also sex. Example: woman is interviewed for a job and is the top candidate, but it is discovered she is a transwoman so she is passed over for the job. The discrimination that happened is because her sex is male and her gender female. Because of this the discrimination is sex based and the DoE, with the courts backing them so far, has stated it as such.

[BmorePat87]

(05-25-2016, 12:30 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure I can. I'm just not sure that those that suggest transgenders are being discriminated because of their sex can.  

(05-25-2016, 07:39 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: When discrimination occurs against a trans person it occurs because their sex and gender do not match, since that is what being trans is. So discrimination against someone that is trans is considered to be based not just on gender, but also sex. Example: woman is interviewed for a job and is the top candidate, but it is discovered she is a transwoman so she is passed over for the job. The discrimination that happened is because her sex is male and her gender female. Because of this the discrimination is sex based and the DoE, with the courts backing them so far, has stated it as such.

Ouch

[BmorePat87]

(05-24-2016, 10:13 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No, the legal justification has been that anti trans laws discriminate on the basis on sex, as in it's saying that a trans woman is being discriminated against because their sex is male. 

This was also explained here...

[Belsnickel]

(05-25-2016, 11:44 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This was also explained here...

I've also explained it at least one other time in one of the countless threads on this subject.

[fredtoast]

So can I make the zoo let me **** a monkey if I claim that I identify as a monkey?

And which bathroom should I use if I am married to a toaster?

[*PhilHos*]

(05-24-2016, 09:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Gender is a social construct ingrained in us through our socialization process. 

False. I see this statement thrown around a lot and in varying ways on the internet and it baffles me how many people get this simple concept wrong. Gender is NOT a social construct. Gender roles are. Being a boy or a girl is NOT a social construct. The idea that boys play with action figures and girls play with dolls is.

Gender does not equal gender role.

[Belsnickel]

(05-25-2016, 12:08 PM)PhilHos Wrote: False. I see this statement thrown around a lot and in varying ways on the internet and it baffles me how many people get this simple concept wrong. Gender is NOT a social construct. Gender roles are. Being a boy or a girl is NOT a social construct. The idea that boys play with action figures and girls play with dolls is.

Gender does not equal gender role.

OED specifies that it typically refers to social or cultural characteristics and not biological. But definitions on the topic vary. APA defines it as such:

Quote:Gender refers to the attitudes, feelings, and behaviors that a given culture associates with a person’s biological sex. Behavior that is compatible with cultural expectations is referred to as gender-normative; behaviors that are viewed as incompatible with these expectations constitute gender non-conformity.

Not everything is in agreement on it, but the way the language is moving is that gender refers to behavioral and sex refers to biological.

Edit: Not really arguing, just bringing some information into this.

[Rotobeast]

(05-25-2016, 11:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So can I make the zoo let me **** a monkey if I claim that I identify as a monkey?

And which bathroom should I use if I am married to a toaster?

Only if you have the monkey sign a consent contract and make sure no fermented bananas had been ingested by your partner, that day.

------

I suppose you use the bathroom at the bank which afforded you your bride.

[BmorePat87]

(05-25-2016, 12:08 PM)PhilHos Wrote: False. I see this statement thrown around a lot and in varying ways on the internet and it baffles me how many people get this simple concept wrong. Gender is NOT a social construct. Gender roles are. Being a boy or a girl is NOT a social construct. The idea that boys play with action figures and girls play with dolls is.

Gender does not equal gender role.

As a sociology teacher discussing society, I'm going to go with the APA's definition and not your own.

[Griever]

(05-25-2016, 12:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: As a sociology teacher discussing society, I'm going to go with the APA's definition and not your own.

i read that as scientology teacher

[*PhilHos*]

(05-25-2016, 12:13 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: OED specifies that it typically refers to social or cultural characteristics and not biological. But definitions on the topic vary. APA defines it as such:

Not everything is in agreement on it, but the way the language is moving is that gender refers to behavioral and sex refers to biological.

Edit: Not really arguing, just bringing some information into this.

Understood. But, really, if the word 'gender' does indeed become to mean 'gender role', fine, I'll admit that 'gender' (as defined in that manner) IS a social construct, but then people need to realize there's no such thing as being a transperson, outside of post-op. Since gender roles (or 'gender') are defined by society, but sex is defined by sexual organ, then you are either male because you have a penis and female because you have a vagina (and I acknowledge the exceptions like hermaphrodites). It doesn't matter what you THINK you are, if you have a penis you're male and so on, etc. Now, how you act as a male or female is entirely up to you, according to our society nowadays, so if you have a penis but want to wear a dress and makeup, etc., then make yourself happy. However, you're NOT a woman no matter how much you want to be because you have a penis.

Thus, I'm confused as to why there's seemingly such a huge trans-issue in our country currently. You're either male or female (or hermaphrodite and whatever you call those born with neither a penis or a vagina- neuters?) and how you act, dress, think, etc. is up to you and not set in stone as male or female. So why the push to have people view you as a man or woman if you're not?

[*bfine32*]

(05-25-2016, 07:39 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: When discrimination occurs against a trans person it occurs because their sex and gender do not match, since that is what being trans is. So discrimination against someone that is trans is considered to be based not just on gender, but also sex. Example: woman is interviewed for a job and is the top candidate, but it is discovered she is a transwoman so she is passed over for the job. The discrimination that happened is because her sex is male and her gender female. Because of this the discrimination is sex based and the DoE, with the courts backing them so far, has stated it as such.

So a white Male can be discriminated because of sex?

This is the whole issye with courts making laws. In your senario she is being discriminated against because of her gender identification; not because she is a male.

Folks just try to attach it to sex because that is the closest thing currently on the books.