Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood

[fredtoast]

(01-21-2016, 01:50 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You didn't answer the transgender and reality question. 

Sorry, but I did not really understand it.  Who exactly is carrying the fetus and who is the father?  Which one is a transgender.

[fredtoast]

(01-21-2016, 02:18 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Isn't this thread about PP and their funding?  

Excuse me for sticking to the thread topic.

Then tell me how having PP clinics in poor areas means abortions are not allowed in wealthy neighborhoods.

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2016, 10:04 AM)GMDino Wrote: He's already throwing in the question of transgender rights as a father Matt.  He certainly doesn't really care he just hates abortion and wants to fight about it.

But heaven forbid someone say the conservatives want women to be subservient and human incubators because we are taking their position "out of context".  Just never have sex unless you are married to a man that you can never leave because sky man said it was bad.  And if he gets you pregnant...whether you wanted it or not...it is a gift from the same sky man.  Quit arguing with the sky man!!!

I am simply aapproaching the subject from a different angle than the tired "It's a life, it's not a life" debate.

That does not stop the usual subjects from trying to belittle the poster instead of considering the posts.

We can seperate from emotion when talking about the fetus, but we cannot when we talk about inconveniencing the mother for a few weeks, for something she voluntarily participated in.

[fredtoast]

(01-21-2016, 01:50 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course it does; She keeps the baby. 

Then according to your logic you are denying a man his "equal rights".  You are forcing him to pay child support that he does not want to.

The fact is that you don't care about equal rights at all.  You just oppose abortion and are desperate for an argument that makes since.  And your attempt to tie it to "equal rights" is a complete fail.

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2016, 11:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry, but I did not really understand it.  Who exactly is carrying the fetus and who is the father?  Which one is a transgender.

The male is the transgender. She feels she is a female and is experiencing the pregnancy of her child. If the other (female) aborts the child she will feel part of her as a woman has been vilated without her permission.

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2016, 12:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then according to your logic you are denying a man his "equal rights".  You are forcing him to pay child support that he does not want to.

The fact is that you don't care about equal rights at all.  You just oppose abortion and are desperate for an argument that makes since.  And your attempt to tie it to "equal rights" is a complete fail.

I am denying him nothing. He already pays child support in the current "law". I am just giving him the right to rear his child if he chooses to.

But know that you have told me my attempt is a complete fail; I should stop. Cause you know how much I value your opinion.

[fredtoast]

(01-20-2016, 11:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Could the answer be: With actions there are consequences?

(01-21-2016, 01:24 AM)bfine32 Wrote: My son fully understands steps he can take to prevent pregnancy, but I have also taught him to take responsibility for his actions.

I feel sorry for your daughters if the learned to accept responsibility from you.  "You can just go get rid of it."

So if your son is speeding and has a car wreck that breaks his leg would you take him to a doctor to fix his leg?  

Would you make him drop out of school and work until paid for the car damage and medical bill.

Wouldn't that be teaching him that reckless bahvior is okey because he can just "get it fixed"?

[fredtoast]

(01-21-2016, 12:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The male is the transgender. She feels she is a female and is experiencing the pregnancy of her child. If the other (female) aborts the child she will feel part of her as a woman has been vilated without her permission.

Nothing changes with me because I believe in equal rights.

The mother has rights over her body and the father has rights over his body.

See how simple things work out when you use logic instead of trying to twist arguments to fit your own personal agenda?

Maybe I can put it in a form you will understand.  When it comes to logic "If you don't learn none, you can't use none".

Get it now?

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2016, 10:14 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I was just thinking about a suggestion for the laws that would be put in place if something like forcing a woman to be an incubator were to happen, the father should also follow certain guidelines for the duration of the pregnancy:

1. No alcohol
2. No smoking
3. No caffeine
4. No fish
5. No rare meat (including soft/over easy eggs and other things of that nature, only things well done)
6. No lunch meat or hot dogs
7. No herbal teas/supplements

Now, I'm sure there is more to it there, and we could also go into the unpaid time off from work and all of that. I think if we are going to force women to have to carry a child to term, the man that impregnated her should be forced to undergo the same dietary and physical restrictions that are recommended for a pregnancy.

Sure. If he truly wants the child he should face these measures if that appeals to your sense of fair play.

[fredtoast]

(01-21-2016, 12:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure. If he truly wants the child he should face these measures if that appeals to your sense of fair play.

Quit his job?

Drop out of school?

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2016, 12:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Nothing changes with me because I believe in equal rights.

The mother has rights over her body and the father has rights over his body.

See how simple things work out when you use logic instead of trying to twist arguments to fit your own personal agenda?

I guess I don't live in a black and white world. Because no matter how much anybody wants to say otherwise there is more than one person involved in a pregnancy; wanted or otherwise.

The fact that you advocate denying rights to men in the name of womens convenience is concerning.

So in adition to white guilt there also appears to be a condition known as male guilt.

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2016, 12:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Quit his job?

Drop out of school?

Well it would probably be best that he continue his work/education to care for the child. You know the innocent party of the situation.

Why is it so complicated (conservative) to suggest you may be held accountable for your own actions. The best answer may not be just do away with it?

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2016, 12:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So if your son is speeding and has a car wreck that breaks his leg would you take him to a doctor to fix his leg?  

Would you make him drop out of school and work until paid for the car damage and medical bill.

Wouldn't that be teaching him that reckless bahvior is okey because he can just "get it fixed"?

Did you think about this analogy before you presented it?

He is suffering consequences for his actions. He committed the act, he is the one paying.

You would advocate we should remove the thing that caused him to wreck while speeding and say there you go; speed again.

[Belsnickel]

(01-21-2016, 11:55 AM)bfine32 Wrote: She made the bed she if required to lie in for a few weeks. Obviously if the father wants the child healthcare expenses are his responsibility.

Who deals with any health effects after the abortion that may result from the trauma?

The woman would deal with anything like that, because it would be her choice.

(01-21-2016, 11:55 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Removing all rights of fatherhood from the male. If you want the child, too bad,if you don't want the financial responsibility too bad.I am sincerely concerned with the way you view men.

Rights to your own body are more important than any right to genetic material that has been ejected from it.

(01-21-2016, 11:55 AM)bfine32 Wrote: So liberal to say "objectify women". She objectified herself when she voluntarily elevated those thighs.

You should look up the definition of objectify and tell me how that makes sense. Or, if you still believe it to be true, explain your amazing mind reading powers to know that every woman that has sex is objectifying herself.

[Belsnickel]

(01-21-2016, 12:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure. If he truly wants the child he should face these measures if that appeals to your sense of fair play.

Just pointing out that two parties are involved and both should have the same sort of things forced upon them.

I won't go so far as to add strapping weights to their midsection, but wearing heavy winter clothing throughout the summer and not taking your coat off indoors during the winter might also help with this as well.

Edit: I had one thought that kind of made me shiver, the cutting of the taint that sometimes occurs during childbirth.

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2016, 12:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Just pointing out that two parties are involved

Hell, that's what I've been saying for the last few pages. But there are actually 3.

[*bfine32*]

(01-21-2016, 12:23 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You should look up the definition of objectify and tell me how that makes sense. Or, if you still believe it to be true, explain your amazing mind reading powers to know that every woman that has sex is objectifying herself.

To treat something as an object for your satisfaction.

[GMDino]

(01-21-2016, 11:59 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I am simply aapproaching the subject from a different angle than the tired "It's a life, it's not a life" debate.

That does not stop the usual subjects from trying to belittle the poster instead of considering the posts.

We can seperate from emotion when talking about the fetus, but we cannot when we talk about inconveniencing the mother for a few weeks, for something she voluntarily participated in.

Yep...a few weeks.  

[Belsnickel]

(01-21-2016, 12:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To treat something as an object for your satisfaction.

Not sure where you got that definition from, the satisfaction part isn't necessary. It's about degrading someone to the status of an object. Hence my saying you were objectifying women by calling them an oven or relegating them to the status of incubator.

[Belsnickel]

(01-21-2016, 12:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell, that's what I've been saying for the last few pages. But there are actually 3.

Only one of which has the right to the woman's body.