Santos admits he lied about everything...still won't step down from office.

[GMDino]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/26/nyregion/george-santos-interview.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

Quote:[color=var(--color-content-primary,#121212)]George Santos Admits to Lying About College and Work History[/color]
[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]The congressman-elect confirmed The New York Times’s findings that he had not graduated from college or worked at two major Wall Street firms, as he had claimed.[/color]




[color=var(--color-content-quaternary,#727272)]Congressman-Elect George Santos at the Republican Jewish Coalition in Las Vegas in November.Credit...Mikayla Whitmore for The New York Times

[/color]
[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]By Michael Gold and Grace Ashford[/color]
[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Dec. 26, 2022[/color]
[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Ending a weeklong silence, Representative-elect George Santos admitted on Monday to a sizable list of falsehoods about his professional background, educational history and property ownership. But he said he was determined to take the oath of office on Jan. 3 and join the House majority.[/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos, a New York Republican who was elected in November to represent parts of northern Long Island and northeast Queens, confirmed some of the key findings of a New York Times investigation into his background, but sought to minimize the misrepresentations.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]“My sins here are embellishing my résumé,” Mr. Santos told The New York Post in one of several interviews he gave on Monday.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos admitted to lying about graduating from college and making misleading claims that he worked for Citigroup or Goldman Sachs. He once said he had a family-owned real estate portfolio of 13 properties; on Monday, he admitted he was not a landlord.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos, the first openly gay Republican to win a House seat as a non-incumbent, also acknowledged owing thousands in unpaid rent and a yearslong marriage he had never disclosed.[/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]“I dated women in the past. I married a woman. It’s personal stuff,” he said to The Post, adding that he was “OK with my sexuality. People change.”[/color][/color]



[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]The admissions by Mr. Santos added a new wrinkle to one of the more astonishing examples of an incoming congressman falsifying key biographical elements of his background — with Mr. Santos maintaining the falsehoods through two consecutive bids for Congress, the first of which he lost.[/color]


[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos acknowledged that a string of financial difficulties had left him owing thousands to landlords and creditors. But he failed to fully explain in the interviews how his fortunes reversed so significantly that, by 2022, he was able to lend $700,000 to his congressional campaign.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos also firmly denied committing a crime anywhere in the world, even though The Times had uncovered Brazilian court records showing that Mr. Santos had been charged with fraud as a young man after he was caught writing checks with a stolen checkbook.[/color][/color]


[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]“I am not a criminal here — not here or in Brazil or any jurisdiction in the world,” he told The Post. “Absolutely not. That didn’t happen.”[/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]In the court file, Mr. Santos is identified by his full name and date of birth, as well as by the names of his mother and father. The documents show that Mr. Santos confessed to the crime and was charged, but that the case remains unresolved because authorities were later unable to locate him.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]In both interviews on Monday, Mr. Santos also denounced reporting by both CNN and The Forward, a Jewish publication, that he may have misled voters about his account of his Jewish ancestry, including that his maternal grandparents were born in Europe and emigrated to Brazil during the Holocaust.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]“I never claimed to be Jewish,” Mr. Santos told The Post. “I am Catholic. Because I learned my maternal family had a Jewish background I said I was ‘Jew-ish.’”[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos, who has repeatedly said he was religiously Catholic but has also identified as a nonobservant Jew, told The Post his grandmother had recounted how she converted from Judaism to Catholicism.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos, through representatives, has declined multiple requests to speak with The Times.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Over the course of his campaigns, Mr. Santos claimed to have graduated from Baruch College in 2010 before working at Citigroup and, eventually, Goldman Sachs. A biography on the National Republican Congressional Committee website said he had attended both Baruch and New York University and received degrees in finance and economics.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]But the colleges and companies could not locate records to verify his claims when contacted by The Times.[/color][/color]


[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]In Monday’s interview, Mr. Santos admitted to The Post that he had not graduated from Baruch College or any college.
[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Sign up for the New York Today Newsletter  Each morning, get the latest on New York businesses, arts, sports, dining, style and more. [color=var(--color-signal-editorial,#326891)]Get it sent to your inbox.[/color][/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]“I didn’t graduate from any institution of higher learning. I’m embarrassed and sorry for having embellished my résumé,” he said, later adding: “We do stupid things in life.”[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]He also admitted that he never worked directly for Goldman Sachs or Citigroup, blaming a “poor choice of words” for creating the impression that he had.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Past statements of Mr. Santos are relatively clear however: An archived version of Mr. Santos’s former campaign website preserved by the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine says he “began working at Citigroup as an associate and quickly advanced to become an associate asset manager in the real asset division of the firm.”[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Instead, he told The Post on Monday, he dealt with both firms through his work at another company, LinkBridge Investors, which connects investors with potential clients. LinkBridge, he said, had “limited partnerships” with the two Wall Street firms.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]The Times was able to confirm Mr. Santos’s employment at LinkBridge. But in a version of his campaign biography posted as recently as April, Mr. Santos suggested that he had started his career on Wall Street at Citigroup and that he was at Goldman Sachs briefly before his time at LinkBridge.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]A spokeswoman for Citigroup declined to comment. Representatives for Goldman Sachs and LinkBridge did not immediately respond to a request for more information.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos has not fully accounted for his employment during the years that he had claimed that he was advancing on Wall Street. In a [/color]separate interview with WABC radio[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)], he confirmed reporting by The Times that he had worked at a call center in Queens in late 2011 and early 2012.[/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Yet even as Mr. Santos, whose victory helped Republicans secure a narrow majority in the next House of Representatives, admitted to some fabrication, his actions will likely not prevent him from being seated in Congress.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Democrats — including the outgoing House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, and the next House Democratic minority leader, Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York — have suggested Mr. Santos is unfit to serve in Congress. Top House Republican leaders, including Representative Kevin McCarthy of California, have largely remained silent.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]The House can only prevent candidates from taking office if they violate the Constitution’s age, citizenship and state residency requirements. Once he has been seated, however, Mr. Santos could face ethics investigations, legal experts have said.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Of greater potential concern are questions about Mr. Santos’s financial disclosures, where he reported earning millions of dollars from his company, the Devolder Organization.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos disclosed little about the operations of his company, and The Times could find no public-facing assets or other property tied to the firm. Mr. Santos also did not list any clients on his disclosures, despite the requirement that candidates list any compensation over $5,000 from a single source.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Intentionally omitting or misrepresenting information on a congressional financial disclosure is considered a federal crime.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]In a [/color]video interview with City & State[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)], Mr. Santos asserted that his consulting practice at the Devolder Organization built upon the work he had done at his former firm, LinkBridge.[/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]“I had the relationships and I started making a lot of money. And I fundamentally started building wealth, and I decided I’d invest in my race for Congress,” Mr. Santos said, adding: “There’s nothing wrong with that — no criminal conduct. No anything of the sort.”[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]The WABC interview itself was something of a political curiosity. Mr. Santos was interviewed by John Catsimatidis, a supermarket magnate and a big Republican donor, and Anthony Weiner, the former Democratic congressman who resigned in disgrace in 2011.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Weiner asked Mr. Santos about his claim, made in an interview last month shortly after his election, that a company he had worked for “lost four employees” at the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando in June 2016. The Times reviewed news coverage and obituaries and found no evidence that could support the claim.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]On Monday, Mr. Santos shifted his account slightly, telling Mr. Weiner that those four people were not yet employees but instead were in the process of being hired.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]“We did lose four people that were going to be coming to work for the company that I was starting up in Orlando,” he said.[/color][/color]
[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos did not name the company or provide additional information to support his statement. Public records show that Mr. Santos had a Florida driver’s license and was registered to vote in that state in 2016.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos was mostly recently registered to vote at a house in the Whitestone neighborhood of Queens, but the house’s owner said he moved out months before the election.[/color]


[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]In The Post’s interview, Mr. Santos confirmed The Times’s reporting that he was currently living in Huntington, N.Y, a town just outside his congressional district. (Members of Congress are only required to live in the state they represent, not the district.)[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Mr. Santos also admitted that he was not, as he claimed last year on Twitter, a landlord who makes significant income from 13 properties owned by him and his family.[/color][/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)][color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]“George Santos does not own any properties,” he told The Post, even though a financial disclosure he filed with the House in September said he owned an apartment in Rio de Janeiro.[/color][/color]

[SunsetBengal]

He should absolutely do the dignified and honorable thing, and resign from his position.

[kalibengal]

(12-27-2022, 11:44 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: He should absolutely do the dignified and honorable thing, and resign from his position.

where I come from, you lie on a resume you are gone
I guess this does not apply to holding a public office  

[*pally*]

The Republicans should refuse to seat him...but they wont

[*Nately120*]

(12-27-2022, 12:30 PM)kalibengal Wrote: where I come from, you lie on a resume you are gone
I guess this does not apply to holding a public office  

If sit coms and movies taught me anything, it's that lies get you in the door of a job or romance and then you prove yourself and earn love and respect and the deception was justified. 


This guy is gonna be the best. 


Or if you believe in karma he could go to get a vasectomy or something and end up getting his balls finagled by a dude who lied about being a doctor.  

Lies are the spice of life.  Also, I just beat up a lion.  

[BengalHawk62]

Donald Trump’s greatest legacy is the destruction of truth.

George Santos is just the latest manifestation of this legacy.

[*pally*]

Republican Jewish Coalition just threw him out...still no demand for his resignation

[jfkbengals]

(12-27-2022, 05:57 PM)pally Wrote: Republican Jewish Coalition just threw him out...still no demand for his resignation

Can you resign before starting the position?

The law should be clear and not allow him to even start, but that's probably just wishful thinking on my part.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Next level fake-it-till-you-make-it.

[NATI BENGALS]

A lying fraudster from New York? You know how history likes to repeat itself, we may be looking at the next GOP party leader.

[*pally*]

Former Democrat Tulsi Gabbard destroyed him

Here is the entire Tulsi Gabbard-George Santos interview in one video https://t.co/e2mQIlZNhL

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) December 28, 2022

[SunsetBengal]

Here's an interesting opinion piece that puts the Santos lies into perspective, as well as touches on the issue of lying politicians being nothing new.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/if-we-re-punishing-politicians-for-lying-about-their-past-start-with-joe-biden/ar-AA15T3ch?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=15c62a23c5a44d4395acebe6e463cece

Quote:George Santos is a despicable, lying fraud. He's lied about his ethnicity, background, parents, and experience, among other things. If there was anything that could be embellished, George Santos probably did it. His deceit would be comical if it weren't so tragic. Santos should be held accountable with punitive actions for his lies. However, if we are now going to be genuinely outraged and start punishing politicians for lying about their past, we can begin with President Joe Biden.

Biden's lies do not excuse what Santos did in any way. This isn't a case of "whataboutism" or some attempted rationalization predicated on universally applying the same standards for all politicians. Yet, this doesn't change the fact that many Democrats, such as Joe Biden, have their own sordid history regarding what they told voters about their past. And when these Democrats were exposed, other politicians, pundits, and talking heads in the media — basically the same people in a huff about Santos — did not have the same outrage then as they do now. This is particularly concerning since it was not just Biden who lied.

GOP OFFICIAL CASTS DOUBT ON SANTOS'S FUTURE

One of the more notable Democrats exposed for lying about their past was Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA). In 2018, it was revealed that Warren falsely claimed Native American heritage; she wrote that she was an "American Indian" on a registration card in 1986 for the State Bar of Texas. It is believed Warren did such to appear as a racial minority, which could help improve her career prospects.

At first, Warren denied any wrongdoing and reiterated her indigenous heritage, even filming the results of a DNA test to try to show the legitimacy of her claims. It backfired. As a result, Warren apologized. The punishment for her deception? Nothing. She offered an apology, and it was swept under the rug.

Then, around a year after her heritage controversy, Warren launched a campaign to run for president. She didn't win, of course, but the fact that she did so reveals the different standards for her compared to Santos.

But this inconsistency in outrage is nothing new.

Consider Biden's comments about his past. There are so many to choose from it's hard to figure out exactly where to begin.

He wasn't truthful during a recent speech in Florida about the death of his son, Beau. He stated that Beau died while fighting in Iraq.

"They talk about inflation … inflation is a worldwide problem right now because of a war in Iraq and the impact on oil and what Russia's doing. ... Excuse me, the war in Ukraine," the president said. "I'm thinking about Iraq because that's where my son died."

But this was not true. Biden's son passed away from brain cancer in 2015 at Walter Reed Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland. There hasn't been any explanation given as to why Biden said this.

There was also the moment when Biden falsely claimed that his first wife died in a car crash in which the driver who struck his wife's vehicle was drunk. This was also not true.

Biden's first wife tragically died in a car crash with a tractor-trailer in 1972. The wreck also killed his infant daughter. Over the years, Biden claimed, on multiple occasions, that the driver involved in the crash was drunk. However, there wasn't any evidence to support this claim. Moreover, the state official who investigated the accident denied any sobriety issues caused the crash.

Biden also previously "Santos-d" his law school ranking while campaigning for president in 1987. Other tall tales told by Biden include his dishonesty about his academic credentials, the number of undergraduate degrees he earned, being arrested in South Africa, being raised in a Puerto Rican community, and interaction with his son Hunter about his business dealings — among many, many more. In fact, it could be legitimately argued that Joe Biden was George Santos before George Santos was.

None of this excuses Santos or lessens his egregious deception. But, the Left's outrage over Santos is as credible as Santos's "Jew-ish" heritage. Rightfully, they criticize Santos. Wrongfully, they ignore Biden's struggles with the truth — a sin they continue to do regularly.

These double standards and inconsistent outrage are hallmarks of the Left. There isn't any moral compass, just political theater to influence public opinion. George Santos deserves scrutiny and criticism for his inability to be honest with the public. But so do politicians such as Warren and Biden.

Let's hold all lying politicians accountable, not just the ones with "R's" after their names.

[*Nately120*]

Ok, politicians, no more lying starting nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnow.

[*pally*]

(01-02-2023, 01:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here's an interesting opinion piece that puts the Santos lies into perspective, as well as touches on the issue of lying politicians being nothing new.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/if-we-re-punishing-politicians-for-lying-about-their-past-start-with-joe-biden/ar-AA15T3ch?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=15c62a23c5a44d4395acebe6e463cece

that's like comparing a paper cut to a traumatic amputation.

Santos created a whole new person.  He has lied about EVERYTHING to the point that we don't even know if he really is George Santos

[Arturo Bandini]

I doubt it is his real name ...

https://twitter.com/patriottakes/status/1610757241845518342

[CJD]

(01-02-2023, 01:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here's an interesting opinion piece that puts the Santos lies into perspective, as well as touches on the issue of lying politicians being nothing new.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/if-we-re-punishing-politicians-for-lying-about-their-past-start-with-joe-biden/ar-AA15T3ch?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=15c62a23c5a44d4395acebe6e463cece

This was my favorite paragraph:

Quote:Biden's lies do not excuse what Santos did in any way. This isn't a case of "whataboutism" or some attempted rationalization predicated on universally applying the same standards for all politicians. Yet, this doesn't change the fact that many Democrats, such as Joe Biden, have their own sordid history regarding what they told voters about their past. And when these Democrats were exposed, other politicians, pundits, and talking heads in the media — basically the same people in a huff about Santos — did not have the same outrage then as they do now. This is particularly concerning since it was not just Biden who lied.

"This isn't a whataboutism but *proceeds to whataboutism*."

It's like when a movie has one of their characters call out the movie's bad writing in some way. That doesn't make the bad writing not bad writing anymore haha.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-05-2023, 10:26 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This was my favorite paragraph:

"This isn't a whataboutism but *proceeds to whataboutism*."

It's like when a movie has one of their characters call out the movie's bad writing in some way. That doesn't make the bad writing not bad writing anymore haha.

CJD, I've come to know you as an intelligent, intuitive person who's very in tune with what's going on in the world.  Perhaps you can explain to me the reason why the news media world chooses to only show 'tremendous outrage' at one of the two major political parties for committing the same faux pas?

[CJD]

(01-05-2023, 10:49 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: CJD, I've come to know you as an intelligent, intuitive person who's very in tune with what's going on in the world.  Perhaps you can explain to me the reason why the news media world chooses to only show 'tremendous outrage' at one of the two major political parties for committing the same faux pas?

Well just from that article, you can tell that the author is comparing apples to oranges. The examples they gave just don't line up with Santos.

Elizabeth Warren's claim that she was part Native American was based on something her family has been telling each other and their children for many years. When something is passed down from generation to generation, it becomes harder to verify and I think it's very reasonable that she truly believed she was of Native American ancestry and her willingness to take a test and reveal the results on the internet are evidence of her heartfelt belief, in my opinion. It does seem like her family either lied or embellished, but that isn't necessarily a reflection on her truthfulness.

Biden stating his son died in Iraq is an inaccuracy perhaps but I don't think it reaches the same level as deception. I don't personally know how Beau got Brain cancer. There's a chance that Biden blames Beau's service for some reason. There are reports of burn pits causing brain damage to soldiers as late as a hand full of years ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if Beau's diagnosis was tied in some way to his time spent in Iraq. Now that I check, that is exactly what Joe believes, if you believe Wikipedia:

Quote:According to his father, Beau was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis in 2001 after returning from service in Kosovo.[47] He was later diagnosed with brain cancer, which his father believes was possibly a consequence of exposure to military burn pits in Iraq.[48]

So, if this was the case, Biden saying his son died in Iraq is essentially true, if not for the single phase "Where my son died." Obviously his son didn't physically die in Iraq, but if he got the cancer from the burn pits in Iraq, then he certainly could attribute Beau's death to his service time in Iraq. 

The next example was Biden saying the crash that caused his wife's death was related to alcohol. Again, I don't know exactly what happened on that day; I doubt anyone alive can other than the driver, who would never admit to it. The deaths were ruled an accident caused by Neilia pulling out in front of the tractor trailer. The investigation yielded no evidence that alcohol was involved but that just means it couldn't be proven. There's a chance Biden knows something that didn't make the report due to lack of ability to prove it, but it is also possible that he is just a grieving widower who is looking for someone to blame. It makes sense that he would resent and blame, even irrationally or without merit,  the person who killed his wife and child even if they technically did nothing wrong. 

So those are the three examples that this author gives explicit details about as equivocation in their article and all three of them are either disingenuously spun to make the Democrat look bad or are otherwise nowhere near the degree of outright lying that Santos had engaged in.

The author goes on to list a few more abbreviated examples. Biden's arrest in South Africa, lying about his law school ranking, dishonesty about academic credentials etc.  It would be difficult to fact check each and every one of these short quips for accuracy but given the author's established pattern of stretching the truth in the 3 explicit examples, I'm not inclined to believe they are being honest about any of these examples.

Like everything, lying has levels. If you say you were arrested when you were actually just detained in an airport, that's a lie and you should be called out for that, which Biden was. When virtually every single thing on your resume that you used to pitch yourself as a good candidate for public office turns out to be a fabrication, that is a higher level of lie, which should be met with a higher level of outcry (in this case, not seating Santos).

I think most people expect a certain amount of lying and embellishment from politicians. It's their job to sell themselves as the best person for the job they're running for, so they'll say they got better grades than they did, were more valorous than they were or were more compassionate or forward thinking than they actually were. Those are kind of expected in today's politics. Lies that you could realistically believe the person at least convinced themselves were true and/or are somewhat harmless or subjective.

A person just making up a history and saying that they did things they categorically did not do is much different, in my opinion, and if a Democrat did similar things I guarantee you that the voters and the leaders in the party would hold them accountable. The Democrats have a long track record of self policing their ranks. From Weiner's dick pics. to Katie Hill's leaked nude photos and inappropriate staffer relationships to Al Franken's pretending to fondle a sleeping woman, Democrats are very sensitive (some may say overly sensitive, honestly) to public outcry (also known as "cancelling") and will often purge their ranks if a person becomes untenable in the public's eyes.

All we ask is that the Republicans do the same.

[*Nately120*]

I'd argue about this, but the guy is probably lying about which political party he's a member of and we're just going to have to do a 180 on how bad it is that he lies about everything.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-05-2023, 02:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd argue about this, but the guy is probably lying about which political party he's a member of and we're just going to have to do a 180 on how bad it is that he lies about everything.

It would be even better if we, as Americans decided that being lied to by our so called 'leaders' is completely unacceptable, no matter party affiliation.