Saudi's threaten U.S. If congress passes 9/11 bill

[Devils Advocate]

(04-17-2016, 12:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: All of thre info from the official 9-11 commission report has been released.

the information that has not been released is from a congressional investigation.  Supposedly it only implicates lower l;evel Saudi Officials, but I agree 100% that it should all be released.  It is possible that the info is not from a reliable source or else it may compromise some undercover source of intelligence, but as long as they keep it secret all it does is let people guess about what it actually says.

Have you ever heard of Cass Suntein? You sound like you've taken a page right out of his book. 

[Devils Advocate]

(04-17-2016, 12:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am noty just talking about Saudi Arabia.  Have you ever heard of the litigation practice of going after the "deep pockets"?  Well the United Sates has the deepest pockets on the planet.

What are we going to do when every time a plane goes down in a foreign country a foreign court finds that the United States government was involved and all of our assets in that country are frozen?

Why do you think the US gov't would be involved?

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 01:04 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Gold has and always will have value. Guess that's why countries have recently asked us to give theirs back. Or why it was confiscated in our country 100 years ago. 

Seriously, this a stupid comment. 

If gold had any intrinsic value it would not fluctuate so wildly just based on what people say it is worth.

Again, which country is wealthier; one with a pile of gold or one with a large industrial/commercial based economy?

if there is a world wide economic collapse gold will be worthless.  You can't eat it.  You can't make tools or weapons out of it.

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 01:08 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Why do you think the US gov't would be involved?

I am not saying they would be involved.  I am saying that it would be easy for courts in another country to rule that we were involved.

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 01:07 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Have you ever heard of Cass Suntein? You sound like you've taken a page right out of his book. 

Actually I am familiar with Sunstein.  He is the one who is highly critical of people who spawn conspiracy theories and then refuse to look at any information that does not confirm these theories, right? 

What does my comment you quoted have to do with him?

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 01:05 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Care to guess why?

Because we are the top dog.

we want to be able to take care of our own problems instead of running to some International Court.

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 01:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If gold had any intrinsic value it would not fluctuate so wildly just based on what people say it is worth.

Again, which country is wealthier; one with a pile of gold or one with a large industrial/commercial based economy?

if there is a world wide economic collapse gold will be worthless.  You can't eat it.  You can't make tools or weapons out of it.

I guarantee you can trade it for all those things, while burning that worthless paper for heat. Gold will always have value. Always has and always will. I think you've confused it with paper money. 

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 01:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I am familiar with Sunstein.  He is the one who is highly critical of people who spawn conspiracy theories and then refuse to look at any information that does not confirm these theories, right? 

What does my comment you quoted have to do with him?

Because you sound just like him. 

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 01:23 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote:  Gold will always have value. Always has and always will. 

Then why can't you tell me what it will be worth a month from now.

It only has value when people claim it has value.  

If you were starving how much gold would you trade for a chicken? A tenth of an ounce?  An ounce?  A pound?

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 01:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I am familiar with Sunstein.  He is the one who is highly critical of people who spawn conspiracy theories and then refuse to look at any information that does not confirm these theories, right? 

What does my comment you quoted have to do with him?

Something like that. He's also the one who denies ever saying that but refuse to retract his comments. He's also the one who advocates government employees infiltrate websites to Propagate good ol Uncle Sam and use any means necessary to make conspiracy theorists look like loons. He has some interesting ideas that can be ( I'm positive have been ) applied to more than just CT's. 

But how about that? Gov't attempting to silence speech. 

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 01:24 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Because you sound just like him. 

Nothing in the quote of mine that you posted said anything that sounded like Sunstein.  All I did was state some facts and say that all the information should be released.  What does that have to do with any of Sunsteins' theories?

But you are certainly starting to sound like someone who lives in a bubble of confirmation bias and is just a little too defensive about anyone who dares disagrees with your conspiracy theories.

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 01:31 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Something like that. He's also the one who denies ever saying that but refuse to retract his comments. He's also the one who advocates government employees infiltrate websites to Propagate good ol Uncle Sam and use any means necessary to make conspiracy theorists look like loons. He has some interesting ideas that can be ( I'm positive have been ) applied to more than just CT's. 

But how about that? Gov't attempting to silence speech. 

And what exactly did I say that suggests anything like this?

It is a sign of paranoia when everyone who dares disagree with you is part of a government plot to discredit conspiracy theories.  

"Look he disagrees with me.  That is proof that it is a conspiracy!!"

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 01:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Then why can't you tell me what it will be worth a month from now.

It only has value when people claim it has value.  

If you were starving how much gold would you trade for a chicken? A tenth of an ounce?  An ounce?  A pound?

I can tell you it will be worth something. 

And Since the dawn of time, people have claimed it has value. I suspect this to continue. 

I'd trade as little as the chicken farmer would accept. 

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 01:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Nothing in the quote of mine that you posted said anything that sounded like Sunstein.  All I did was state some facts and say that all the information should be released.  What does that have to do with any of Sunsteins' theories?

But you are certainly starting to sound like someone who lives in a bubble of confirmation bias and is just a little too defensive about anyone who dares disagrees with your conspiracy theories.

Just generally over the years. Not any one post in particular. 

I'll have to go over these 'facts' of yours. 

I admit it's very difficult As a 'CT' to avoid confirmation bias. I do try my best to weed fact from fiction though.

 Still, I think that's a cop out. Confirmation bias is aplenty on both sides of this fence. Kinda difficult to get any real news outta the mainstream when it's a very good possibility many of them aren't on the up and up. I mean, I could submit evidence that the CIA controls much of the news, though I do try to use accepted media as sources to most of my posts because I know fringe media is even more suspicious and barely accepted, even when it is the truth. 

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 01:49 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote:  Still, I think that's a cop out. Confirmation bias is aplenty on both sides of this fence.

Not really.

There are a lot of people like me who don't trust the government, but also don't believe every conspiracy theory out there.

In fact I would say that if you took a poll very few people trust the government to be truthful with them.  

George Bush won re-election by getting over half of American citizens to believe that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9-11, but at the same time there was a very large portion of the population calling "Bullshit!"

The government definitely has disinformation and propaganda programs, but they are not nearly as effective as you claim.

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 02:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not really.

There are a lot of people like me who don't trust the government, but also don't believe every conspiracy theory out there.

In fact I would say that if you took a poll very few people trust the government to be truthful with them.  

George Bush won re-election by getting over half of American citizens to believe that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9-11, but at the same time there was a very large portion of the population calling "Bullshit!"

The government definitely has disinformation and propaganda programs, but they are not nearly as effective as you claim.

But they do trust the government. They keep re electing them. 

And I can remember people dancing in the street when Sadam Husein was captured and I remember polls where the majority believed Iraq was involved in 9/11. 


I think their programs are extremely effective. The dreaded Facebook memes confirm, as well as the negativity surrounding conspiracy theorists.  

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 02:20 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: But they do trust the government. They keep re electing them. 

What difference does it make to you?

No matter who is elected you will assume they are part of some secret society.

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 02:20 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote:  as well as the negativity surrounding conspiracy theorists.  

The government has nothing to do with the negativity surrounding conspiracy theorists.

People are negative about conspiracy theorists smugly call everyone else stupid.

There are actually people who steal signs from playgrounds dedicated to children killed at Sandy Hook and make mocking posts on websites about how it was all a big fake.  

There are outbreaks of diseases like measles that could be prevented by vaccinations that are not being taken because of conspiracy theorists.

Conspiracies are so popular because if you want to brag that you are smarter than everyone else it is easier to accept a conspiracy than actually doing the work to develop a true knowledge.  Why go to med school when you can read a few stories on the internet and know more than all doctors?  If life is not going your way it is easier to blame some dark, secret society than blame yourself.  If your favorite team does not win it is because the games are fixed instead of the other team being better.

Conspiracy theories are popular because they provide easy answers and make their believers feel smarter than everyone else.

[Benton]

(04-19-2016, 01:36 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I can tell you it will be worth something. 

And Since the dawn of time, people have claimed it has value. I suspect this to continue. 

I'd trade as little as the chicken farmer would accept. 

But that's the problem with gold standard. You know the dollar is going to be worth a dollar. It's an amount that reflects what other currencies are worth through exchange. It has a slowly adjustable value. Gold doesn't. Large investors can have an impact on it's value. They can't with the dollar.

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 10:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The government has nothing to do with the negativity surrounding conspiracy theorists.

People are negative about conspiracy theorists smugly call everyone else stupid.

There are actually people who steal signs from playgrounds dedicated to children killed at Sandy Hook and make mocking posts on websites about how it was all a big fake.  

There are outbreaks of diseases like measles that could be prevented by vaccinations that are not being taken because of conspiracy theorists.

Conspiracies are so popular because if you want to brag that you are smarter than everyone else it is easier to accept a conspiracy than actually doing the work to develop a true knowledge.  Why go to med school when you can read a few stories on the internet and know more than all doctors?  If life is not going your way it is easier to blame some dark, secret society than blame yourself.  If your favorite team does not win it is because the games are fixed instead of the other team being better.

Conspiracy theories are popular because they provide easy answers and make their believers feel smarter than everyone else.

 
They sure do, case in point, Cass Sunstein; former presidential cabinet member. If that's not enough, just YouTube the countless instances where CT's are just run through the mud on mainstream news, often by those with political clout.  

You're painting all conspiracy theorists with a broad brush. I have never suggested Sandy Hook or any other mass shooting was the result of a conspiracy. Still, I believe a video I posted not long ago shows witnesses of one of these mass shootings ( sandy hook, I believe) (re)cycling through the scene multiple times. I don't know what that's all about, but that's why CT's look at these events under a microscope. Not to mention they've sealed some records, evidence I believe. I'm not sure. I don't get into those theories. 


It's called cognitive dissonance. You're currently enthralled in it.

Conspiracy theorists, if they're honest, are not looking for easy answers, it is in fact the other way around. 

FIFA. Next.