Schumer: Trump and GOP agree to protect DACA w/o funding the Wall

[GMDino]

(09-14-2017, 04:55 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm not following the  part where it bothers you he is doing these things.  He'll just be signing a law you will most likely agree with.

If he signs a law I agree with that is good.

But just like with Obamacare...they are play politics with people's lives just so they can say THEY did it.

That's makes it tough to praise them for doing the "right thing" when they could have done it already.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(09-14-2017, 04:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Nice. I've never seen Trump say "most", either. But it's not like SJW's ever exaggerate for effect, amirite? 

Do you have any statistical data for how many conservatives are inbred? Because there's definitely statistical data that shows we're getting a lot of bad people jumping the border. I've seen it first hand. It's not all mom's with little children looking for a better life. There's a shit ton of drug dealers (and yes, rapists) hopping that cattle fence at night, too. But lets just bury our heads in the sand and pretend that doesn't happen. Think of the children, man! 

Well, he stated that SOME were good people.  Some is non-specific number, but but the tone of his statement, you can pretty safely assume that he meant 'most'. Also, the way that Americans use the word "some" is pretty much opposite of the word "most".

Also, I've seen inbreeding first hand.  I've been to Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, and West Virginia (notice the redness of said states).  And since we're giving anecdotal evidence here, I'll just say that those people a'int right. Think of THOSE children, man!

EDIT: SOME of the people in the states that I mentioned are probably good people.  I don't want to paint them in a negative way.

[Belsnickel]

(09-14-2017, 04:55 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm not following the  part where it bothers you he is doing these things.  He'll just be signing a law you will most likely agree with.

I just don't see him as someone with any real principles. That's really it for me based upon what I have seen.

(09-14-2017, 05:00 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How dangerous was it when Obama didn't end our combat operations in Afghanistan or Iraq, and didn't close Guantanamo Bay?

It's almost like politicians are known for promising things in their campaigns and then either failing to deliver, or flip flopping on the issue. Shocking.

But since it's Trump this time, it's dangerous.

If you don't see Trump's behavior as different than what you describe, then I don't know what to tell you.

(09-14-2017, 05:07 PM)Benton Wrote: Fair enough. 

Devils advocate here, if a person makes up their mind, gets new information and then changes course, I support that.

I think Trump wasn't sure what DACA was when he stepped into it, found out it's not just a bunch of welfare babies, and changed his mind. 

I support changing course with new information, as well. That being said, I don't see what Trump is doing as that. We will use the DACA situation as a perfect example. Trump has made factually inaccurate statements about the recipients of the program, even after being briefed on the program. If he was using new information and changing his mind, I wouldn't expect that.

What we are seeing is a man who values nothing but his popularity. We see other politicians (to tie this into Leonard's response as well) campaign on things and then pull back on them in office. A lot of that is new information for the newbies, but it is also playing the popularity game to get money and votes, and then hunkering down to govern and getting more pragmatic. It's a frustrating cycle, but it is the reality of our political system. What we see in Trump is a man who isn't willing to hunker down and govern. There is a reason he still does his campaign style rallies, because that is all he cares about. He doesn't know, nor does he want to learn, how to govern.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-14-2017, 05:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If you don't see Trump's behavior as different than what you describe, then I don't know what to tell you.

If you don't see your behavior as different when it's a decision Trump made, regardless of how much you'd be happy if the exact same decision was made by anyone you voted for, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-14-2017, 05:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: GMDino
If "some" are good people wouldn't "most" fall into the rapists and murderers and drug dealers?


When it comes to DACA they are the "some".

I was speaking with regards to the wall, not DACA. 

DACA are mostly good people who got here via illegal means.

I'm still trying to figure out where Trump said all or most border jumpers are bad people though. 

[BmorePat87]

(09-14-2017, 03:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Who has ever called them ALL rapists?

To be fair, Trump said that he "assumes some" aren't rapists. 

[BmorePat87]

(09-14-2017, 05:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm still trying to figure out where Trump said all or most border jumpers are bad people though. 

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

6/16/15

[StLucieBengal]

(09-14-2017, 02:47 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: As someone who teaches the children of immigrants, I can tell you that for the most part, despite English not always being the language at home, they are more fluent in English as it was the one they were formally taught. Their grasp of Spanish is just as good as someone who never went to school. They can speak some, not a lot, with poor grammar, verb conjugation, and reading comprehension. 

They likely have nearly no understanding of how the government of their home country operates and likely have no ability to access resources there or bring their assets with them to help them. 

Spanish is often bad because central and South American countries have terrible education. And their language is taught within the family which ends up being a mishmash bastardized form of Spanish.

These children should be able to speak better when they go to school. That's not a debate.

[*michaelsean*]

(09-14-2017, 05:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I just don't see him as someone with any real principles. That's really it for me based upon what I have seen.


If you don't see Trump's behavior as different than what you describe, then I don't know what to tell you.


I support changing course with new information, as well. That being said, I don't see what Trump is doing as that. We will use the DACA situation as a perfect example. Trump has made factually inaccurate statements about the recipients of the program, even after being briefed on the program. If he was using new information and changing his mind, I wouldn't expect that.

What we are seeing is a man who values nothing but his popularity. We see other politicians (to tie this into Leonard's response as well) campaign on things and then pull back on them in office. A lot of that is new information for the newbies, but it is also playing the popularity game to get money and votes, and then hunkering down to govern and getting more pragmatic. It's a frustrating cycle, but it is the reality of our political system. What we see in Trump is a man who isn't willing to hunker down and govern. There is a reason he still does his campaign style rallies, because that is all he cares about. He doesn't know, nor does he want to learn, how to govern.

I get that you don't think he's principled I just don't get where it bothers you for him to sign into law something you agree with.  Would you rather he didn't?

[Shake n Blake]

(09-14-2017, 05:17 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: 1. Well, he stated that SOME were good people.  Some is non-specific number, 2. but but the tone of his statement, you can pretty safely assume that he meant 'most'. Also, the way that Americans use the word "some" is pretty much opposite of the word "most".

Also, I've seen inbreeding first hand.  I've been to Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, and West Virginia (notice the redness of said states).  And since we're giving anecdotal evidence here, I'll just say that those people a'int right. Think of THOSE children, man!

EDIT: SOME of the people in the states that I mentioned are probably good people.  I don't want to paint them in a negative way.

1. Maybe he didn't have the exact data in front of him for how many are "good"?
2. "Tone"? "Assume" he meant most? Mmmkay.

The rest of your post is standard issue cupcakes. 

[BmorePat87]

(09-14-2017, 05:33 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Spanish is often bad because central and South American countries have terrible education.    And their language is taught within the family which ends up being a mishmash bastardized form of Spanish.  

These children should be able to speak better when they go to school.   That's not a debate.

They certainly speak better English, but believe it or not, most schools don't offer Spanish courses until secondary school. 

Is your argument that we should be teaching them Spanish so we can send them back?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-14-2017, 05:36 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: They certainly speak better English, but believe it or not, most schools don't offer Spanish courses until secondary school. 

Is your argument that we should be teaching them Spanish so we can send them back?

Or, since we gave them a 1st-world-country's education, and taught them English, we send them back. 800,000 fluent English speakers pouring into Mexico, and they have 4 children each, who they teach English to. That's 3.2 million English speaking children, who have 4 children each.. 12.8 million English speaking children.. etc.

Then after a couple generations, the people coming into America illegally already know English!

Fool proof plan. It's all about the long game, Bmore. Lol 

[StLucieBengal]

(09-14-2017, 05:36 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: They certainly speak better English, but believe it or not, most schools don't offer Spanish courses until secondary school. 

Is your argument that we should be teaching them Spanish so we can send them back?

Well this will end up being an education rabbit hole. But I think we should be teaching languages early. Charter school here locally does this and its wonderful.

As to the second bit. Educating them and sending them back is a boom to their home country. They will go back and likely dominate.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(09-14-2017, 05:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Maybe he didn't have the exact data in front of him for how many are "good"?
2. "Tone"? "Assume" he meant most? Mmmkay.

The rest of your post is standard issue cupcakes. 

You mean he made a statement disparaging a group of people without having the data supporting it available? No ******' way! The doesn't sound like Donald Trump.

Tone, yes. I was assuming again, but do you not know what that is? Why do you have trouble with me using that word?

[*PhilHos*]

(09-14-2017, 05:53 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: You mean he made a statement disparaging a group of people without having the data supporting it available? No ******' way! The doesn't sound like Donald Trump.

Actually, IIRC, he was basing his comments on a study or something that said that a majority of illegal Mexican immigrants had committed various crimes including rape and what not.

[BmorePat87]

(09-14-2017, 05:48 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Well this will end up being an education rabbit hole.   But I think we should be teaching languages early.   Charter school here locally does this and its wonderful.  

As to the second bit.   Educating them and sending them back is a boom to their home country.   They will go back and likely dominate.

or get stabbed looking for a Starbucks because they have no concept of what it's like to live in a 3rd world country. 

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(09-14-2017, 05:56 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Actually, IIRC, he was basing his comments on a study or something that said that a majority of illegal Mexican immigrants had committed various crimes including rape and what not.

So he was basing his comments on some BS study? Is it supposed to make me feel better that the president regurgitates 'fake news' stories?

I'd like to see the study that shows the majority of illegal immigrants are rapists, and the supporting evidence behind the study.

[Belsnickel]

(09-14-2017, 05:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you don't see your behavior as different when it's a decision Trump made, regardless of how much you'd be happy if the exact same decision was made by anyone you voted for, then I don't know what to tell you.

(09-14-2017, 05:35 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I get that you don't think he's principled I just don't get where it bothers you for him to sign into law something you agree with.  Would you rather he didn't?

You both seem to have read something in my post that wasn't there. I stated it bothered me he was doing these things, referring to flipping or rolling over so often, for a reason. It is plural. Read my post again. I never said I don't like that this could become law, I am just concerned because of his behavior in this arena.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-14-2017, 06:14 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: So he was basing his comments on some BS study? Is it supposed to make me feel better that the president regurgitates 'fake news' stories?

I'd like to see the study that shows the majority of illegal immigrants are rapists, and the supporting evidence behind the study.

You have no idea what the study is but you've already declared it "BS". Clearly, you're about as interested in facts and the truth as you claim Donald Trump is.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(09-14-2017, 06:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You have no idea what the study is but you've already declared it "BS". Clearly, you're about as interested in facts and the truth as you claim Donald Trump is.

So do you think it's possible that the majority of illegal immigrants are rapists? Like...the majority. 50%+. You don't think that you can safely call that statement BS? Come on, man.

Please...open my eyes for me. Show me this study. Prove me wrong.